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Jesus---Messiah not God

Phillip said:
The chairman of deacons told him ‘it may be scriptural, but it ain’t Baptist’.
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That reminds me of the time many years ago when I went to the Promise Keepers (tm) rally in Washington, DC. I am not Baptist, but there were not many from my church going, and the Baptists were taking a bus load, so I hitched a ride. And I remember overhearing a Baptists saying, "Remember we are Christians first, and Baptists second!" and I remember thinking to myself, what do you need the second part for?

While I do have certain congregations I prefer to attend over others, I am always careful to never refer to myself as anything other than "Christian" because identifying with a particular denomination seems to me against the teaching in 1 Cor 3.
 
cnystrom said:
While I do have certain congregations I prefer to attend over others, I am always careful to never refer to myself as anything other than "Christian" because identifying with a particular denomination seems to me against the teaching in 1 Cor 3.
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John the Baptist would take issue with that stance I think...
 
cnystrom said:
You forgot the smiley.
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I think a lot of misinformation is centered around the name Baptist. True Baptist are not part of any denomination. This obviously has gotten distorted because of the sbc and other organizations but it is not a denomination. So on that point I agree we should not identify with any denomination but Baptist is a Bible term and when understood correctly it is not affiliated with any denomination... so I identify as both Baptist (specifically Independent Baptist) as well as Christian...
 
Methinks 'baptizer' is a better translation of John's epithetical 'surname.'
 
Ancient Paths said:
Methinks 'baptizer' is a better translation of John's epithetical 'surname.'
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I don’t disagree but that’s sort of my point. John had a label other than Christian.

Also the definition of Baptist is:

Thayer's Definition
  1. a baptiser

  2. one who administers the rite of baptism

  3. the surname of John, the forerunner of Christ
So I have no problem with either name...
 
So, would you agree that the repentance John was preaching was to turn back to Torah?
 
Then.... you know this is coming.... why don't the Baptizers preach the same message? :eek:
 
Ancient Paths said:
Then.... you know this is coming.... why don't the Baptizers preach the same message? :eek:
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Hmm well John the Baptist was preaching repentance prior to the death burial and resurrection. So Torah was the expected standard. Many things changed upon the death of Jesus. Most Baptist view the “old testament” as a moral code that teaches us what sin is but believe the civil and ceremonial laws are done away with... perhaps they are viewing too much of it as done away with and they should reconsider the stance...
 
:D
 
I grew up a Baptist. In regards to the law, I’ve found it helpful to divide it into four parts. Dath, the fiery law spoken by God from the mountain to the entire nation. Torah divides into three parts. Religious/Ceremonial, then Civil, then Family Law.

The only part I can prove was done away with was the Religious/Ceremonial.
 
Prove it. o_O
 
Pacman said:
I think a lot of misinformation is centered around the name Baptist. True Baptist are not part of any denomination. This obviously has gotten distorted because of the sbc and other organizations but it is not a denomination. So on that point I agree we should not identify with any denomination but Baptist is a Bible term and when understood correctly it is not affiliated with any denomination... so I identify as both Baptist (specifically Independent Baptist) as well as Christian...
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Totally okay with you thinking of it differently. I just thought you were joking because "John the Baptist" is not in any sense identifying with the Baptist denomination or any splinter group thereof. It is a descriptive name of him individually and not of a group of men that he identifies with.

For example, "Pacman the Bible reader" would be a description. No problem there. "Pacman the Seventh Day Adventist" might be a problem, at least in my view of 1 Cor 3, as you would then be identifying with a group of men instead of Jesus.

If you say you are Baptist what do you mean by that? And what do other people think if you say that you are a Baptist? Does it mean that you are in sympathy and agreement with all who baptize? Pretty much all Christians baptize in some form or fashion. So if that is what you mean it would more or less be meaningless. Therefore I do not think that is what most people think if you say you are Baptist. I think most people would understand you to mean you were in sympathy with the doctrines and viewpoints of the Baptist denomination.

Even if you were in complete sypathy with the Baptist view, it would be better to simple say that you were a Christian who was in 100% agreement with the Baptist view than to call yourself a Baptist, because of the teaching of 1 Cor 3.

I do not mean to pick on Baptists specifically. I think identifying with any human denomination has the same problem.

What do those verses in 1 Cor 3 mean to you?
 
denomination: a recognized autonomous branch of the Christian Church.

A religious denomination is a subgroup within a religion that operates under a common name, tradition, and identity.

Does the term "Baptist" mean the whole of the Christian church, or is it a reference to a subgroup?

If it is a reference to the Church then it is redundent. If it is a reference to a subgroup than it is a reference to a denomination, protests of it not being a denomination not withstanding.
 
cnystrom said:
denomination: a recognized autonomous branch of the Christian Church.

A religious denomination is a subgroup within a religion that operates under a common name, tradition, and identity.

Does the term "Baptist" mean the whole of the Christian church, or is it a reference to a subgroup?

If it is a reference to the Church then it is redundent. If it is a reference to a subgroup than it is a reference to a denomination, protests of it not being a denomination not withstanding.
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Will have to get back to you when I have more time but the short answer is Baptist (specifically Independent Baptist) is not a denomination. I will explain more later but Anabaptist roots... and the label was given to us for the same (or at least similar) reason as it was given to John Baptist...
 
Pacman said:
Baptist (specifically Independent Baptist) is not a denomination.
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This is true, because they (independents) more or less practice congregational autonomy. But they are still a distinct group with a distinct identity and practice. Which makes them a sect. I don't think it is proper to call Baptists a denomination as those who so identify are part of many different sects and denominational governments. Or maybe it is a sect with subsects? IDK. Sometimes I'll call such things faith traditions. But they only tenuously have Anabaptist roots.
 
Cap said:
No. It wasn't to turn back to an old law that couldn't save but forward to the One who could.
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Are they not the same thing? The law is our school master and all that...
 
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