Prayer request Just sent a reminder about polygamy to one of our church elders

[Bartato]

The elders of the church we attend know what I believe about polygamy. We talked about it back about six years ago.

They disagree with my understanding.

I don't generally bring up the subject around church folks.

The leader of the small group Bible study we attend is one of the lay elders. He and I are on pretty good terms. He is generally a good guy, is pretty low key, and doesn't get overly excited.

Sunday night we went through the passage in Matthew 7 where Jesus told the Pharisees that they were setting aside the Law of God in favor of the traditions of man.

We talked about the fact that we all naturally tend toward that sin.

I figured this would be a good opportunity to remind him of the fact that the Bible treats polygamy as marriage rather than adultery or sexual immorality. I don't want another big fight so I didn't bring it up at the Bible study.

Instead, I just sent him a lengthy private text this afternoon laying out the basic details.

Please pray that the Lord will help him understand the truth.

 

[Bartato]

Thanks NickF, PeteR, and Steve

 

[Bartato]

It is really hard for church leaders to accept polygamy and patriarchy.

I think the Lord probably uses these discussions to show where church leaders hearts really are.

Most fear the displeasure of man more than the displeasure of God.

Hopefully my friend proves faithful. I'm praying he will.

 

[frederick]

Please pray that the Lord will help him understand the truth.

And once he understands to become a doer of the word!

Some preachers might understand what is written but are too scared to say or do anything about it.

 

[MemeFan]

The elders of the church we attend know what I believe about polygamy. We talked about it back about six years ago.

They disagree with my understanding.

I don't generally bring up the subject around church folks.

The leader of the small group Bible study we attend is one of the lay elders. He and I are on pretty good terms. He is generally a good guy, is pretty low key, and doesn't get overly excited.

Sunday night we went through the passage in Matthew 7 where Jesus told the Pharisees that they were setting aside the Law of God in favor of the traditions of man.

We talked about the fact that we all naturally tend toward that sin.

I figured this would be a good opportunity to remind him of the fact that the Bible treats polygamy as marriage rather than adultery or sexual immorality. I don't want another big fight so I didn't bring it up at the Bible study.

Instead, I just sent him a lengthy private text this afternoon laying out the basic details.

Please pray that the Lord will help him understand the truth.

Definitely more balls than brains. Bravery is always virtue, even if things don't go always our way.

 

[PeteR]

Definitely more balls than brains. Bravery is always virtue, even if things don't go always our way.

I would argue both balls and brains. We HAVE to stand for truth in this crazy hour western civilization is facing. We will be held accountable. A core issue, the ring that binds them all most, is headship and patriarchy. Polygyny is a necessary subset. We must set this before every pastor, teacher, elder, layperson, etc. What they do with it is then between them and Yah, but we cannot set things right in this nation or in this generation without correcting this feminization of civilization.

Imma bout ta start preachin!!

/soapbox

 

[NickF]

What they do with it is then between them and Yah, but we cannot set things right in this nation or in this generation without correcting this feminization of civilization.

This! So much this!

 

[MemeFan]

I would argue both balls and brains. We HAVE to stand for truth in this crazy hour western civilization is facing. We will be held accountable. A core issue, the ring that binds them all most, is headship and patriarchy. Polygyny is a necessary subset. We must set this before every pastor, teacher, elder, layperson, etc. What they do with it is then between them and Yah, but we cannot set things right in this nation or in this generation without correcting this feminization of civilization.

Imma bout ta start preachin!!

/soapbox

It is definitely lack of brain. Smart person would calculate his chances (in this case close to nill).

Why:

In my opinion pastors are lost cause.

Small determinated group can oust pastor from job even if polygyny isn't problem.

Think a little. Practically pastor position is church position. So even if pastor privately thinks polygyny is ok what would happen if word gets out? Most people don't study scripture deep enough so polygnygy will came as shock.

For pastor to keep his job at least 60-70% congregation must change their opinions. Tough ask. And even may not be enough because unhappy people can attack pastor using objectively true problems. This could silence or turn out pastor's supporters so he goes out.

And don't forget chaos this teaching will cause in believers families. Many wives will become insecure so this will eat a ton of time. This will isolate pastor just at moment he needs most support. And did I mention pastor's wife? She could easily become a part of problem.

Sad thing is believers who accept polygyny may throw out pastor in order to save their own families. I would be insane to choose pastor over your family so this is impossible ask.

There is nothing for pastors to gain. Only to lose.

False.

Pastor's first love MUST be the Almighty and TRUTH. If he has to weigh the value/profit/loss of a truth, he has a different master whether money, position, power, or title. Bottomline, if he is presented this, or any truth, and he squirms, he ain't fit.

Now, to be clear, the truth bringer needs wisdom in how, when, where this or any truth is presented. There is a time/place (Sunday morning Sunday school isn't it....) that doesn't directly threaten the whole flock...

Guys,

My whole post was about social dynamics. If you don't understand this how do you expect to change beliefs of large group of people?

Polygyny isn't small change. Truth about this often requires changing identity about yourself and your role in world. It means new responsibilities and potentially learning new skills. None of this falls free from sky. It requires inner work in people.

It is interesting that nobody has commented my post about using subversive methods. You would rather be brave, charge fearlessly into enemy line and die into glory (church throws you out). I would rather be effective (church accept truth).

How about forgetting top down strategy (pastor speaking truth) and going bottom up (regular people first)? Like commenting in appropriate situation: I can't find where polygyny is forbidden can you check also, it would be nice having multiple wives if allowed etc...

They can't throw out if you don't directly say that polygyny is allowed. No... you are just accidentally noticing some things. Raise curiosity in other people and let them find truth.

 

[MemeFan]

Feminization and lack of patriarchy isn't greatest problem in West. It ain't also unjust fiat money. Broken political systen also isn't. Not the ruling class who are Mathuasianic believers.

If we remove spiritual problems (demons and lack of Jesus) greatest problem it is post-modernism. In post-modernism objective truth doesn't exist. Have you heard this phrase "my truth is X, your truth is Y"? Pure post-modernism.

In post-modern power is greater value than truth. So everything is allowed as long it is helpful in getting me power.

Good substack is: https://wokaldistance.substack.com/

Read all because author reveal many tricks used by post-modernist to confuse and trick people. If you lack time read this article:

The Most Powerful Weapon in the World

1. Wanting Power More than Truth. One of the hallmarks of postmodernism is the way that it dismisses, denies, deconstructs, and otherwise seeks to subvert the idea of absolute, universal, objective truth. The postmodern thinker is convinced that what lies behind claims to truth is in fact power...

wokaldistance.substack.com

 

[Bartato]

It is definitely lack of brain. Smart person would calculate his chances (in this case close to nill).

Why:

I was thinking about this, and the time that Simon Peter walked on the Sea of Galilee.

We all laugh at Peter because he started to sink. I think we should respect Peter for walking on water. Only One other Man in history has ever done it.

If Peter was smart, he would have calculated his odds of success in walking on water. He would have reasonably concluded that they weren't very good, and stayed in the boat.

There was no need for him to walk on water. What was there to gain from it?

Peter however had his eyes on Jesus, and Jesus said "come" in response to Peter's request (Matthew 14:28).

Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water.

Peter did get frightened, apparently taking his eyes off Jesus, and started to sink.

In his sinking, Peter looked to Jesus and cried out "Lord save me". That's the right thing to do when you are sinking!

Jesus took hold of Peter and saved him. Jesus also reprimanded Peter for his doubt, and the smallness of his faith.

I wonder if we all might be similar to Peter. Our faith is small and weak, yet we know that Jesus is the Light of the world. We are looking unto Him. Though our faith is weak, it is simultaneously genuine. We know that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Our faith is weak, but our Master and Savior is strong.

Though polygyny seems like a secondary issue, we are also honestly persuaded that Yahweh really does regard it as marriage. We have to deal with His written word in a truthful manner.

Persuading church leaders probably is humanly impossible.

We know that all things are possible with God. We hope in the God who raises the dead, and gives life to dry bones.

If church leaders belong to Jesus, then they will sooner or later hear His voice, and submit to Him (even on secondary issues). The Holy Spirit will guide them into truth.

I am pretty sure that my friend is one of Jesus sheep, and that means he will eventually come around.

Recently I've been reading and pondering the Gospel according to John. The last couple days I've been thinking about the following passage.

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. “And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. “If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.". (John 14: 12-14 NKJV)

I think we all want to have that kind of faith.

I've been asking Jesus to give me the same confidence in, and intimacy with Him, that He had in His Father when He walked on earth.

That is a lot to ask, but our King is both Mighty and Generous! I want to take Him at His word!

 

[Bartato]

I told my wife about the message I sent the elder. That led to a huge quarrel on Sunday. She has been exceedingly upset with me since then. She is basically ignoring me saying "pretend that you have another wife and just ignore me".

We've been run out of church, and lost a bunch of friends over this issue before, and she really doesn't want that again.

I'm the only person she knows who speaks the truth about this issue, so it is easy to believe the lies.

Besides that, she just ABHORS the thought of polygamy, and feels utterly rejected by my even hypothetically wanting an additional wife.

I gave her the link to Wifeofhisyouth's "Peeling the Onion" blog. I don't know if she will read it.

I would appreciate your prayers as we seem to be in deep trouble.

 

[FollowingHim2]

I know you know this, but she is most welcome to come on BF, to join the ladies chat, and to chat with any of us women in private.

"pretend that you have another wife and just ignore me".

This is a knee jerk reaction because she's hurting. Give her time and keep loving her. Don't bring it up again for a bit, let her process it.

 

[Bartato]

Thanks FollowingHim2. Your prayers are appreciated

 

[Bartato]

I know you know this, but she is most welcome to come on BF, to join the ladies chat, and to chat with any of us women in private.

This is a knee jerk reaction because she's hurting. Give her time and keep loving her. Don't bring it up again for a bit, let her process it.

Thank you. I appreciate that you and the other ladies are so helpful and willing to talk. I think she is so upset right now that she might not be able to talk to anyone. I know that talking to you would be helpful.

I know it is an emotional response because she is hurting so badly.

I'll try to love her well and be patient.

She just seems to be getting increasingly angry and bitter. She has known for several years that I believe polygamy to be lawful and that I am at least somewhat theoretically interested in it.

 

[steve]

I'll try to love her well and be patient.

No, you need to choose to love her. It is a command.
Feelings don’t matter.

 

[Bartato]

No, you need to choose to love her. It is a command.
Feelings don’t matter.

Thanks for the reminder Steve. That is right. I will do so. Sometimes it is hard to know how.

 

[NickF]

Thanks for the reminder Steve. That is right. I will do so. Sometimes it is hard to know how.

Take joy in everything about her. Choose joy.

 

[frederick]

I told my wife about the message I sent the elder. That led to a huge quarrel on Sunday. She has been exceedingly upset with me since then. She is basically ignoring me saying "pretend that you have another wife and just ignore me".

We've been run out of church, and lost a bunch of friends over this issue before, and she really doesn't want that again.

I'm the only person she knows who speaks the truth about this issue, so it is easy to believe the lies.

Besides that, she just ABHORS the thought of polygamy, and feels utterly rejected by my even hypothetically wanting an additional wife.

I gave her the link to Wifeofhisyouth's "Peeling the Onion" blog. I don't know if she will read it.

I would appreciate your prayers as we seem to be in deep trouble.

This is so very sad to read @Bartato and my heart goes out to you, but it highlights the damage that has been done through the monogamy-only error being taught so effectively. In the Christian churches here there are probably three times as many females as males, maybe more. Many of the women lead sad lives and remain single because they can't find Christian husbands; some marry unsaved men - which is not condemned here like polygamy would be. How bad is that!

All that to say, I understand where you are at and am praying for God to strengthen you through this trial. Blessings brother. Shalom

 

[Bartato]

She is currently reading Wifeofhisyouth's blog. I also mentioned Biblicalfamilies.org to her. I hadn't mentioned this website before.

 

[frederick]

She is currently reading Wifeofhisyouth's blog. I also mentioned Biblicalfamilies.org to her. I hadn't mentioned this website before.

She may finally see that you are not the crazy loner she thought you were! There are more of us and some, like @WifeOfHisYouth, are from the same kind of background in their thinking as your wife. May God open her eyes to see the truth and bless you both with a full restoration in your relationship!