That is an absolute lie for all but maybe a few men.
And your other argument is that men want and need career women to help support the household.
You are arguing out of both sides of your mouth.
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And your other argument is that men want and need career women to help support the household.
You are arguing out of both sides of your mouth.
I'm arguing out of both sides of my mouth to point out the hypocrisy of the arguments made by the men on this forum. Perhaps pull your head away from Mark's skirt tail long enough and you'll see that.
I can and currently do. One my wives works part time, but does not need to. The others do not work.
If they want to work, I'm certainly open to that, but it is not needed.
The majority of men here and on other platforms have expressed needing or wanting a woman's financial contribution while in the same breath telling them they shouldn't go to college or have a career. It's hypocritical. Also, please consider the younger men seeking marriage and plural marriage, they're going to have a very tough time making it in present day economy without career women. I'm not saying this is how it should be, this is how it is. Why does everyone give those women such a hard time and not see the benefits they bring.
The men on this forum do not have uniform beliefs. You just prefer to lump us together and blame us all for every objection that you have.
I mean there's about 5 of you left on this forum, you're all arguing with me... Sounds fairly uniform to me. I hardly blame any of you for every objection I have. I simply responded to something that was posted that I have an objection to.
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Evidently you can not accept that women can contribute without going the career route. Coincidentally bringing a bunch of debt into the future family finances.
If they want further schooling on the way to a family, I would suggest that they do it without debt, in a way that does not obligate the future earnings of the family.
I’m not saying that they shouldn’t get education in any way, just that they shouldn’t enslave themselves to a career path and then try to piece a family in where they can.
I mainly agree with this. They aren't getting Christ centered teachings at a public university. That's why I would recommend, if they do attend university, to attend one that acknowledges God. Typically, these can be found at some Christian or Bible believing colleges.
Have any of the five men who you are referring to expressed a need for a career wife?
It’s an honest question, because I do not know.
A lot of us guys were able to raise families without having to rent out our wives. In fact, all too often we took on wives who had a debt load but now wanted to become stay at home wives.
I think part of the problem here stems from the fact that people do not have a uniform definition of the phrase "career woman."
How do you define that? A woman who has a career (not merely a job but a career, with an upward path), or a woman who prioritizes having a career?
Because they are not the same thing.
How do you define that? A woman who has a career (not merely a job but a career, with an upward path), or a woman who prioritizes having a career?
Because they are not the same thing.
It’s all but impossible to find one nowadays where feminism hasn’t deeply eroded what were once patriarchal understandings.
A career woman has a career orientation. A mindset of who she wants to become in the job market.
A woman with a family orientation has a job whilst on the way to her real career of having a family.
I don't think that. My response was specifically to the people suggesting that career-minded women can't have it all while also requiring that they do it all...
I don't disagree with the rest.
Okay. So in your book, any woman who has a career path at all, is not focused on her home and family (which I agree, should come before her career). This is not an accusation, it's your own words. Fair?
Now then, hold that thought because I'm going somewhere with this. What passage from the Bible would you say most perfectly describes God's definition of the ideal, virtuous woman? I have an idea what the answer will be because it is not-quite-but-almost-universally acknowledged, but I want to hear yours.
Thank you for bringing up the Proverbs 31 women.
Do you know who Solomon’s example was?
Do you know what her career actually was?
Yes, actually, I know what all of her careers were, because they are enumerated. In today's terms, she's a real-estate broker (verse 16), has her own clothing line (verses 13, 19, 21 and 24), and owns her own profitable business of some kind (verse 18). On top of that, she also has her own charity ministry (verse 20).
Now, it does go on to say that she prioritizes her husband and children before any of these. I don't agree with the notion that a woman should put her career first, or even try to juggle both. Her first duty is to her family and her husband (Psalm 45:10 & 11 make that plain), and her professional path is most definitely secondary. If we were to define "career woman" as a woman who prioritizes her career, I would agree that this is not in line with Biblical Truth. The Husband comes first, then the children, and then the career. I make no argument against that.
But that's not the angle you took. Your own post made it plain that you consider a woman to be a "career woman," which you have made it plain you consider to be un-Biblical, if she has a career path at all. And on that score, we have it right here in print that God disagrees.
So, it's Steve vs. God.
...
...
...
...I'm gonna go with God.
Now, it does go on to say that she prioritizes her husband and children before any of these. I don't agree with the notion that a woman should put her career first, or even try to juggle both. Her first duty is to her family and her husband (Psalm 45:10 & 11 make that plain), and her professional path is most definitely secondary. If we were to define "career woman" as a woman who prioritizes her career, I would agree that this is not in line with Biblical Truth. The Husband comes first, then the children, and then the career. I make no argument against that.
But that's not the angle you took. Your own post made it plain that you consider a woman to be a "career woman," which you have made it plain you consider to be un-Biblical, if she has a career path at all. And on that score, we have it right here in print that God disagrees.
So, it's Steve vs. God.
...
...
...
...I'm gonna go with God.
No, you seem to think that she had a number of separate careers, but that is because you fail to understand her real career.
You haven’t dealt with the question of who she actually was, if she wasn’t a composite.
True!
This may be true in culturally acceptable mono-relationships.
However, if a couple brings on a plural just for her to work a job and support a financially insolvent couple then why should she join that family in the first place? Seriously, what's in it for her? She can work a full time job and focus on a career without bothering to give up her earnings to a married couple.
Conversely, if the married couple can't support themselves without needing the income of a plural then they're doing it wrong. They need to get their house in order before they invite someone else into it.
Finally, our priorities should always be in this order: God, family, country, self, career.
Putting a career first in your heart and in your priorities is a mistake.
Like I love flying, right? But note that I have a gig where I can come and go as I please. I do have a career but my family comes first. Always. If I ever have to choose between them my family will win every single time.
Ah, the classic condescending "you fail to understand" approach. Because any time you are corrected it is someone else who has "failed to understand," right?
No, Steve.
It is you who have failed to understand. And no, she was not a composite. Solomon was speaking of a very specific woman. Hebrew has different structures when referring to hypotheticals than when referring to real people. The Proverbs 31 woman was a real, and very specific woman.
And I do not think she had a number of separate careers. I read that she had a number of separate careers, straight from the infallible word of God.
You're free to continue disagreeing with God if you like. He allows you the freedom to be wrong.