The “adultery of the mind” will be based on Matthew 5:27-28.
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Prayer request Meeting the Pastors
- Thread starter Gary Slaughenhaupt
- Start date
Let this be an object lesson to others of what happens when you allow your wife to be under the authority of another man. When she is under your authority, and you under the elders, such situations are recoverable still by withdrawing your family from that body. But when she is directly under their things can go to hell like this.
You are right, this sudden turnabout is what happens when you declare their gods to be false gods. And by that I mean their worship of women.
This needless, this wanton destruction of marriage and family disgusts me.
This verse has been used in all manner of foul ways to keep men in subjection to women. As far as I'm concerned the response to anyone who advocates that line of thinking should be, "Let he who is without such sin cast the first stone."
Disgusting.
You are right, this sudden turnabout is what happens when you declare their gods to be false gods. And by that I mean their worship of women.
This needless, this wanton destruction of marriage and family disgusts me.
This verse has been used in all manner of foul ways to keep men in subjection to women. As far as I'm concerned the response to anyone who advocates that line of thinking should be, "Let he who is without such sin cast the first stone."
Disgusting.
I think he means when the man YOU are accountable to deems you are ready, then you "and Grace too" should seek marriage counselling. I think that is poorly worded and bad grammar, so easy to misunderstand, but as there is a way to understand it that is not placing her under the headship of another man I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.
Of course, making you accountable to another man, but him not accountable to you, is a highly questionable arrangement. Plenty of men enter into voluntary accountability arrangements where both are accountable to each other to hold each other to a high standard, and that is good. It is simply acting as brothers. But he is asking you to place yourself under another man's authority, not a reciprocal accountability relationship, which is something else entirely. He's even said that you shouldn't start marriage counselling until another man says you're "ready" - so he's actually telling you NOT to seek marriage counselling, and placing this other man in authority even over the decision to enter into marriage counselling with your wife!
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Good points. I am just taking a wait and see attitude. He has been able to admit publicly times when he has been wrong. I definitely want to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Church leaders excited about people submitting to them aren’t usually life-giving. They’re overly controlling: They define the rules for membership - if you don’t comply, you’re kicked out. Fellowship is usually really great in groups like this, until you question the rules.
The day after we left a church like that (we were on the church board, worship leaders, children’s ministry director, etc), we had friends call us who lived on the same street as us and said, “Please don’t have your kids play with our kids anymore.” We were completely blacklisted. People we’d done ministry for years with, babysat their kids, lead small groups together, painted their houses... Now not invited to Christmas parties, nothing.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I hope it goes better for you than this. IMHO, stay away from groups where leaders don’t treat you as a peers - equally capable of hearing from God.
Godspeed!
In other words, if they had said, “That you’re seeking *Jesus* out, and submitting yourselves to *Jesus*, is a very hopeful sign!” I’d be optimistic the fellowship you’re in is capable of supporting you both in your journey to figure this out as you grow in intimacy in your marriage and with Jesus.
Their current response shows they’re not (yet) mature enough to do this with you. It’s unlikely it’s because they’re evil or bad, they just aren’t there yet.
It takes a lot a of maturity to be close with people who believe differently - it’s one of the things I appreciate about Biblical Families - we have hugely different beliefs and that’s ok, our “rule” is simply the Apostles Creed. If we can affirm that, we’re on the team
Their current response shows they’re not (yet) mature enough to do this with you. It’s unlikely it’s because they’re evil or bad, they just aren’t there yet.
It takes a lot a of maturity to be close with people who believe differently - it’s one of the things I appreciate about Biblical Families - we have hugely different beliefs and that’s ok, our “rule” is simply the Apostles Creed. If we can affirm that, we’re on the team
I like that they strongly suggest that it is someone of their choosing. It's not a demand. You can choose, to follow that suggestion, or you can tell them that you have already found someone that you can be accountable to. I would have a field day with that!
I wouldn't take a wait and see attitude about any of this. Has your wife left you yet or is she still at home? There is no way that working with that group turns out in your favor. If it all possible you should extract your family from them.
That can be tricky, as we all know. If Grace is already against him on this, extracting himself might result in the dissolution of the marriage, rather than extracting the family.
She is still with me. This virus has been a big help. We are still friendly to each other. She keeps looking at me strangely because of my joy but it seems to be rubbing off on her. The wait and see thing is partly because of the virus there is no services now.
Agreed, it won't necessarily be straightforward. But that's the destination, there is zero chance staying will have a happy result.
Well, not exactly zero, God could still move them. But based on what I've seen of their response, and the history of other's experience, I think they worship a different god and that won't happen.
This is why I'm always getting on people to establish a patriarchal order in your marriage first. When you have that she looks to you for spiritual leadership and decision and if you say we go you all go. And if you bring up some weird theology fact you discovered, but don't want to act on, it doesn't cause a rift.
That's good news.
Ok, here is some proactive, neutral action you can take: are you doing the work of her spiritual leader? Or was the only specific religious guidance in her life from your church? If you've failed in this, repent and sin no more. Take up the slack that no longer going to church has left and run with it. Become her active spiritual teacher. This doesn't have to be about poly. It's simply a, "Now that we can't go to church anymore and you are no longer getting fed spiritually I've realized I've failed, it was my responsibility all along and I'm going to fix that." And then keep it up if/when you attend a church again.
Just make sure you are doing the broad job this entails and not just using it to harp on poly (don't even bring it up unless she asks) or patriarchy (leadership is action more than talking).
That is awesome! Shower her with affection, but if she pulls back, don't push it. It may take some time, but she will miss out on that affection that she craves. There is sort of a catch-22 going on here. She won't believe you love her, and won't let go of monogamy, because you are perceived to desire polygamy. That will be interpreted as not desiring her, and when you make an attempt to show her the love that you have for her, in her mind, she will question your motives for doing so. Do it anyway! She needs to know that you love her and desire her, and that you want her. One thing I have discovered recently, is that we as men desire our wives, and they need us. Sort of like how God desires us, and we need Him. So often, they project, wanting to know why you need a second wife, when the fact is, you don't really even need the first one! Help her understand this. She needs you to desire her. God doesn't need us, but He desires to have us. She projects her own needs, thinking that if you don't need her, you won't want her. Then, she extends that to want to know why you need a second wife. Of course you don't need one. You want one. God gave you that desire. I found it so liberating to tell people that God has given me this desire. That forces them to try to argue that God would never give you the desire to sin. I agree; God gives you the desire to marry, and that desire is not sinful.
I strongly suspect that if you fail to follow all of the recommended steps from your pastor, Grace won't hold you to them. We often project our own logical thinking onto our wives. That's not how they work! If Grace sees how much you desire her, she won't care if you follow those recommendations. She admires you, but this whole polygamy thing has left her with a world of uncertainty, and she does not know how to handle it emotionally. The thing is, you could follow every one of those steps, and she could still walk out on you. You could follow none of them, and she could still stay with you.
The patriarchy thing is a good idea, but it might be too soon to drop that on her. Down the road, it certainly is something you will need to adopt, but that is only after you know that she is not ready to bolt, at least right away. The funny thing is, when you shower her with love, she will probably have the mistaken idea, that you are no longer interested in polygamy. She will have to have three or four "rude awakenings", and each time, this will further reinforce the notion in her mind, that you are only showering her with love, in order to get her to come around, which means that you don't genuinely love her, but rather, you are putting on a show. That "Red Pill" that we have been posting about, comes in handy as you go along, because she will see you acting differently, and she will like it, and she won't. It will come across as very masculine of you, but she has grown accustomed to a less masculine you, and she will want you to stop, which is where the disciplinary measures will be useful. You can't go back to that feminized self that you have been led to believe that you are supposed to be.
I knew my wife was ready to accept PM, when she told me that she could feel God's love for her, through me. Women are self-doubters, and Grace will try harder to be a better wife, in a vain effort to make you no longer desire what God Himself has given you the desire for. She wraps her sense of self worth and her identity, in your desire for her. It is difficult for her to see that polygamy and your efforts to get her to come around, are in fact a result of your desire to keep her. You don't really need her, but you want her anyhow, but that is hard for her to wrap her mind around. God gave you the desire to have her, and you don't want to lose her.
It's funny with this Covid-19, our church is doing online services, but we watched a couple of them, and my older son doesn't like that, so now, Sunday mornings or afternoons or evenings are "preacher daddy" time. I know Scripture well enough, but I am really having to sharpen up my presentation skills, as I am not big on public speaking. I do much better in one on one, or one on two or three settings. Getting stretched is not fun, but it's cool.
I LOVE YOU TOO!!!!!!
I love you, Honey!
Okay...., this is not the R18 AO section so settle down.
Sorry! I love it when she responds like that. What is R18 AO?
Restricted to those over 18. Adults Only!
OK, because of course children are not allowed to know about love. I see.
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This was going to be my recommendation today, but you got to it first @rockfox. Nice work.
I'm not going to indict you @Gary Slaughenhaupt because I don't know your home dynamics, but if her first inclination was to run to Pastor, then maybe a stronger spiritual and leadership presence at home has been missing. It could just be her desperation of feeling unneeded or unworthy and she panicked while running to her default safety valve.
Again, I'm not saying it is a problem in your home, but if it's not, don't let it become that way. It doesn't have to be poly, but take time to talk with her about spiritual matters. Pray. Read. Let her feel confident in your spiritual husbanding skills (care and provision).