Peace and Safety - and China

[FollowingHim]

There is a rapidly accelerating pattern in international events this year. Peace efforts led by China - and yielding successful results.

So far this year:

China is pushing for a peace settlement in Ukraine. Both Russia and Ukraine have cautiously welcomed their suggestions - but the USA has rejected it outright. In UN deliberations (if you decide to waste time listening to diplomats talking from scripts) China comes across as one of the few moderate voices on this issue. "Comes across" being the operative term of course - they're creating a deliberate image.

China has concluded secret negotiations between Iran and Saudi Arabia. They have resumed diplomatic relations following a decade of division, and the Saudi king has invited the head of state of Iran to visit.

Partly as a result of those talks, and other mediation by Russia, Saudi Arabia is now normalising relations with Syria, and reopening their consulate in Damascus. The Saudis were one of the strongest countries pushing for regime change alongside the USA - they have now turned their backs on trying to do that, and are pursuing peace alongside their peace with Iran.

Saudi Arabia To Reopen Consulate In Syria After Leading Failed Regime Change Efforts | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

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And more, that's just the major items, there are a whole host of peacemaking efforts accompanying Chinas "belt and road" initiatives - especially through central Asia. France is leaving the countries it has long influenced through Africa (e.g. the Central African Republic and Mali) - and Russia is moving in to provide security instead, at the request of local authorities.

Many countries that had been at war, or are currently at war, with the war actively supported by NATO and/or the USA, are ending their hostilities and making peace. And there is one name at the centre of it all - China (with Russia and Iran playing a supporting role)

Now, I'm always a big fan of peace. But this is highly concerning, because it is the wrong country being the peacemaker. Crucial states for the world economy, particularly the Middle East, are turning away from the Western democracies as their guarantors of peace, and are turning to the Communists. Because, frankly, the communists are walking the talk - China has not started any wars for many, many years. It is a master of getting its way through diplomacy rather than war. While the West have started innumerable wars for decades - Trump being the only US president in recent years not to start a new war. If you want peace, who would you talk to? The democrats who start wars, or the communists who offer you money and peace?

China is also winning the hearts and minds of the Western elite. Over covid, whose example did the West follow? The carefully laid scientifically based pandemic plans were thrown away in an instant, to copy the "good example" set by China. And the media bent over backwards to defend China from scrutiny.

There is no country closer to the prophesied Beast than communist China, with its surveillance, digital currency, and strict control of the population.

And the Chinese dragon is rising and spreading its wings across the world.

I am not saying China is unstoppable and flawlessly powerful. They have many economic problems at home - but so does everyone else. By spreading their influence and growing international ties they can paper over or may even fix those problems, while as the Western powers lose that influence their problems will become more obvious and unavoidable.

I don't know quite where this all fits in prophecy, but it certainly looks like the early stages of the rise of something that smells something like the prophecied beast. And it does make me strongly think of 1 Thessalonians 5:3:
"For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

The only way to humanly stop this would be for the West to become peacemakers, more effective peacemakers than China, and win hearts and minds back again. All indications however go in the opposite direction. We shall live in interesting times.

 

[The Revolting Man]

China is currently in a slow motion collapse. Everything takes longer in Asia but communism always fails. It will fail in China as well.

China will have spent trillions of dollars on foreign countries that will abandon them the first time its profitable. Empire is very difficult and China currently has none of the prerequisite ingredients.

 

[rockfox]

Now, I'm always a big fan of peace. But this is highly concerning, because it is the wrong country being the peacemaker.

And who would be the right peacemaker? Certainly not the west, they're behind most of the wars of the last couple hundred years. They've brought anything but peace. If anything China is exactly the right party because they're not in the hands of the international bankers.

Now, I'm always a big fan of peace. But this is highly concerning, because it is the wrong country being the peacemaker. Crucial states for the world economy, particularly the Middle East, are turning away from the Western democracies as their guarantors of peace, and are turning to the Communists.

China isn't really communist, and certainly not in the sense of Lenin or Stalin. They call it 'socialism with Chinese characteristics' but really that's just a way of saying same party different ideas. This ain't Mao's China. It's a one party nationalist state with a market economy. It has 'socialist' tendencies like Europe has socialist tendencies with its social democrats; this mainly plays out in the state serving as a check on market power much like we used to have in the US before the financial industry took control. So too is the US a one-party state (but without the nationalist part and they pretend to be two parties). Not really a democracy. The last 20 years 'democracy' has just be a watchword for globalism; and looked more like international socialism or fascism in some senses.

The real hate for China is that China has a national bank and hasn't allowed the international banksters to take over.

What both China and Russia are advocating for, and as you point out are doing with their actions, is mutual respect for sovereign nations. Aside from Taiwan, which as strong nationalists they regard as an internal matter, China isn't expansionist.

There is no country closer to the prophesied Beast than communist China, with its surveillance, digital currency, and strict control of the population.

Those who rule the global order want all those things too, they just disagree with China over who should rule China as the later isn't on board with the global ethnic genocide plan.

 

[FollowingHim]

China is currently in a slow motion collapse. Everything takes longer in Asia but communism always fails. It will fail in China as well.

Wishful thinking. As @rockfox pointed out, China is not strictly communist (despite my shorthand use of that word above), and have tempered it enough to make it less of an economic disaster and closer to a western socialist state from an economic perspective. So it's less unstable. We know Western socialist states can survive for well over a century despite their problems, China can do the same.

China has many economic woes, their housing sector is in a terrible shape. However, there are two ways to resolve internal economic problems - fix them, or get assets from other countries to fill the gap. The traditional way to do that was to go to war - Rome's economic problems were hidden as long as the empire expanded and kept bringing in loot, and became apparent when the empire stopped growing. The same went for Napoleon. But the USA has shown over the past half-century that you can achieve the same effect without war, through pure economic dominance - the US dollar dominance causes money to flow into the USA that would not flow there otherwise, and this masks the USA's economic problems.

China can do the same. China is now moving to establish the yuan as a currency for global trade, not just with China itself - Russia now supports yuan trading between Russia and other countries, not involving China. This if achieved would directly displace the US dollar - and cause the same monetary inflows to China that the USA currently enjoys.

This could result in China avoiding the fallout from their internal financial woes by filling the gaps with foreign money - while simultaneously causing the USA's foreign money inflows to reduce and cause the USA's pre-existing problems to become more serious.

 

[Yan]

But there is no way to stop the government of the beast, this has already been prophesied.

We just have to wait

 

[The Revolting Man]

Wishful thinking. As @rockfox pointed out, China is not strictly communist (despite my shorthand use of that word above), and have tempered it enough to make it less of an economic disaster and closer to a western socialist state from an economic perspective. So it's less unstable. We know Western socialist states can survive for well over a century despite their problems, China can do the same.

China has many economic woes, their housing sector is in a terrible shape. However, there are two ways to resolve internal economic problems - fix them, or get assets from other countries to fill the gap. The traditional way to do that was to go to war - Rome's economic problems were hidden as long as the empire expanded and kept bringing in loot, and became apparent when the empire stopped growing. The same went for Napoleon. But the USA has shown over the past half-century that you can achieve the same effect without war, through pure economic dominance - the US dollar dominance causes money to flow into the USA that would not flow there otherwise, and this masks the USA's economic problems.

China can do the same. China is now moving to establish the yuan as a currency for global trade, not just with China itself - Russia now supports yuan trading between Russia and other countries, not involving China. This if achieved would directly displace the US dollar - and cause the same monetary inflows to China that the USA currently enjoys.

This could result in China avoiding the fallout from their internal financial woes by filling the gaps with foreign money - while simultaneously causing the USA's foreign money inflows to reduce and cause the USA's pre-existing problems to become more serious.

Financial woes nothing. Their demographics are disintegrating. They don’t have the people. They can’t support their own society let alone dominate others. China might not even be a country in 10 years.

 

[MemeFan]

All official economics is Keynesian. They believe that deficit spending and money printing is salvation for reccession.

@FollowingHim, no money doesn't into you when you have reserve currency. USA prints dollars and send them outside and strangers dhip goods to USA. Only reason for dollars to flow into USA is general economic/political stability. USA is still safe haven for capital.

 

[ModernPolygamy]

The thing about China is that they think long term. That's it. They see the big picture and think long term. We do not.

There was a thread not too long ago about if Christians should play chess. China is run by chess players....we're busy arguing if we should play the game and are convinced that knocking over the board when we don't get our way is better than thinking.

The problem is not China, they are a worthy chess player....the problem is that we have no will, desire, interest, or ability to play any more...and forgot that it is possible to honorably win...or lose.

That is extremely unlikely to change, so the scenario must be played out when thinking of the future.

 

[FollowingHim2]

The thing about China is that they think long term. That's it. They see the big picture and think long term. We do not.

There was a thread not too long ago about if Christians should play chess. China is run by chess players....we're busy arguing if we should play the game and are convinced that knocking over the board when we don't get our way is better than thinking.

The problem is not China, they are a worthy chess player....the problem is that we have no will, desire, interest, or ability to play any more...and forgot that it is possible to honorably win...or lose.

That is extremely unlikely to change, so the scenario must be played out when thinking of the future.

Our governments think ahead as far as the next election. We only have them in for a few years before they change.

 

[Mark C]

China isn't really communist, and certainly not in the sense of Lenin or Stalin. They call it 'socialism with Chinese characteristics' but really that's just a way of saying same party different ideas.

It's fascism, pure and simple. By definition: the Total[itarian] Public-Private Partnership. CCP owned, CCP ruled, and they have their puppets in the Swamp, too.

 

[FollowingHim]

@FollowingHim, no money doesn't into you when you have reserve currency. USA prints dollars and send them outside and strangers dhip goods to USA. Only reason for dollars to flow into USA is general economic/political stability. USA is still safe haven for capital.

I mistyped when saying "monetary inflows", I meant "wealth inflows". As you say, the USA prints dollars and receives items of real value in return. The same would go for China if they managed to put themselves in the same position.

Financial woes nothing. Their demographics are disintegrating. They don’t have the people. They can’t support their own society let alone dominate others. China might not even be a country in 10 years.

All the more reason for them to try and become a larger empire to acquire everything they need - including people.
I might be wrong. We could plan to look at this in 10 years to see who was right, but we'll forget to.

 

[The Revolting Man]

The thing about China is that they think long term. That's it. They see the big picture and think long term. We do not.

There was a thread not too long ago about if Christians should play chess. China is run by chess players....we're busy arguing if we should play the game and are convinced that knocking over the board when we don't get our way is better than thinking.

The problem is not China, they are a worthy chess player....the problem is that we have no will, desire, interest, or ability to play any more...and forgot that it is possible to honorably win...or lose.

That is extremely unlikely to change, so the scenario must be played out when thinking of the future.

China thinks too long term. Their plans become almost wishful thinking.

 

[FollowingHim]

Interesting points in this article:

China's latest agreements with Russia are very one-sided. China gains a lot and Russia gains little. China's influence over Russia is growing.

The parting made-for-camera comment from Xi to Putin, widely cited everywhere:
"Change is coming that hasn’t happened in 100 years and we are driving this change together."

China Gives US Advice On Ukraine After Xi, Putin Pledge To Shape New World Order | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[rockfox]

But the USA has shown over the past half-century that you can achieve the same effect without war, through pure economic dominance - the US dollar dominance causes money to flow into the USA that would not flow there otherwise, and this masks the USA's economic problems.

Not total war no. But we've been more or less continuously at war the entire time. That economic dominance is enforced at the point of a sword.

China has taken a play out of the globalist book with their belt and road initiative. The problem for them is they are not an oil producer, they don't have a good way to get everyone trading in yuan. But Russia is. Hence the importance of Russia and China pushing their basket of curencies approach and China making agreements for trade in oil for other than dollars.

But there is no way to stop the government of the beast, this has already been prophesied.

We just have to wait

We are at war with Satan. It is not a given that we should not resist. Only that the beast will be allowed power for a short time.

Their demographics are disintegrating. They don’t have the people.

Don't listen to anyone who thinks trends continue on as are and cannot change. And China is in a lot better position demographically than the West. Both are declining, but the Chinese have quite a bit of headway to cannon fodder through while the West is busy demographically erasing it's profit and innovation center.

The thing about China is that they think long term. That's it. They see the big picture and think long term. We do not.

Oh the west think's long term. But it's operating for the bankers, not for the people.

Our governments think ahead as far as the next election. We only have them in for a few years before they change.

Those are the talking heads, not the ones actually in charge.

It's fascism, pure and simple. By definition: the Total[itarian] Public-Private Partnership. CCP owned, CCP ruled, and they have their puppets in the Swamp, too.

There is a degree of that, as there is in the United States. It's just obvious in China whereas in the US it's all hidden behind the scenes. I wouldn't be willing to place bets on which economy is more government controlled.

China's latest agreements with Russia are very one-sided. China gains a lot and Russia gains little. China's influence over Russia is growing.

I'd say that was a bad sign for Russia but then I read the article and that's just more Western rhetoric trying to drive a wedge between Russia and China; the deals sounded just as good for Russia.

 

[FollowingHim]

Now France is saying they are happy to work with China on a peace process for Ukraine. Major NATO member making a large break with the US strategy and welcoming something the US has dismissed out of hand.

France Willing To Work With China On 'Peaceful Solution' For Ukraine | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[MemeFan]

Now France is saying they are happy to work with China on a peace process for Ukraine. Major NATO member making a large break with the US strategy and welcoming something the US has dismissed out of hand.

France Willing To Work With China On 'Peaceful Solution' For Ukraine | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

Good, Russia is winning which will force West to accept peace. Otherwise, West would be interested in pushing war. Winner has less reason to go to peace than losing side.

It is sad that peace has come to this. It would be better than peace has come sooner.

 

[rockfox]

Now France is saying they are happy to work with China on a peace process for Ukraine. Major NATO member making a large break with the US strategy and welcoming something the US has dismissed out of hand.

It will have to happen this way, even if the US is on board as Russia has deemed the West, and the US in particular, as 'non agreement capable'.

And they're right. You can't negotiate with the father of lies.

But I don't know if it will be enough. You'll probably see something like this happen to save face and come to an agreement when the Russians achieve their goals and decide to halt the war.

 

[The Revolting Man]

when the Russians achieve their goals and decide to halt the war.

You remember you said this. We’ll be revisiting it.

 

[FollowingHim]

Just a note that this is not the Ukraine thread, it's one on China. There is an overlap of course, which I was referring to, but all subsequent comments have been about the war in Ukraine, which is not the topic of this thread. My point was that China's general peace programme (which goes well beyond Ukraine, that is just one manifestation of it) is not only being embraced by countries in the Middle East and Russia, it is now being supported (however cautiously) by a major NATO power. This is a major step along the rise in China's diplomatic standing in the world, which I am highlighting in this thread.

Edit: I am recording history as it happens, not promoting it. Just watching what's coming so we can be prepared.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Just a note that this is not the Ukraine thread, it's one on China. There is an overlap of course, which I was referring to, but all subsequent comments have been about the war in Ukraine, which is not the topic of this thread. My point was that China's general peace programme (which goes well beyond Ukraine, that is just one manifestation of it) is not only being embraced by countries in the Middle East and Russia, it is now being supported (however cautiously) by a major NATO power. This is a major step along the rise in China's diplomatic standing in the world, which I am highlighting in this thread.

Edit: I am recording history as it happens, not promoting it. Just watching what's coming so we can be prepared.

You will be very disappointed in China. They’re going to fall flat on their faces.