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poly = selfish, unloving towards your wife

Ezekiel 16:8
Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.

Why should a woman ever contemplate submitting to a man (through this construct of marriage) without some semblance of a guideline or authority that he is under and without a vow from him? As a father, I would remove a man that attempted to get one of my daughters to covenant under those conditions and I would negate her vow in the day I heard of it. Period. The consequences for him would be Biblical at the least.

I get what you’re saying @Pacman, and I understand where you’re trying to get, but this idea that a husband should not vow to a wife to reflect the image of God is fundamentally wrong on so many levels. Every covenant that God creates involves swaring and oaths on both sides.

True, be careful what you say and what you agree to with your wife or anyone else, but, IMO your wife and family should be the one that you keep your word to, whether you do to anyone else or not. Why should a wife be an exception to the instruction to let your yea be yea and your nay be nay?

It’s probably also important to keep in mind that the father allowed her vow or assent on the betrothal/wedding day because of the husband to be’s vow. Leviticus 6 comes into play in a big way.
There are myriad misunderstandings here. We've gone over this Ezekiel verse before in the context of a covenant and we showed it's a pretty limited event. God metaphorically had sex with this (woman which created a one flesh covenant. There is no further application to this covenant then to demonstrate once again that sex is a covenant that creates a one flesh situation. You have to stretch like hell to get it to say anything else ESPECIALLY as this is merely an aside in this passage on the way to the main point. Ezekiel is not talking or giving instructions on how to vow to your wife.

And a father can't negate a daughter's marriage vows, at least it's not all that cut and dried. Numbers 30 tells us that a father can negate the vows of either his wife or virgin daughter that are made to God. The father's ability to do this seems to be taken away after her virginity is lost. And as far as keeping the seduced daughter from her husband, that seems to only come in effect as an escape clause if the father refuses to allow physical custody to take place. There is nothing to imply that a father could retroactively nullify a marriage later on. That authority passes on to the husband. You risk tearing apart what God has joined together. And that's not to be done.
 
If a woman is to be submitted to her husband in all things then a vow becomes meaningless. He can just tell her to release him from the vow (assuming he can't just declare it null which I would say he could) and she has to obey. She is to submit as to Christ, what exactly is the limits of how much we're to submit to Christ?

:rolleyes: @ZecAustin :cool:

#respectthebeard
 
If a woman is to be submitted to her husband in all things then a vow becomes meaningless. He can just tell her to release him from the vow (assuming he can't just declare it null which I would say he could) and she has to obey. She is to submit as to Christ, what exactly is the limits of how much we're to submit to Christ?
I hear what you are saying and totally agree that the man has authority and she is to submit, however, forcing her to release him from a vow really strikes at his integrity...

Yes, maybe it was entered into in ignorance, I don't find that to be an excuse. Should he explain and support with Scripture his error? Yes! Should he ask for release? Sure. Should he demand? Nope. He has crossed a line from leader to dictator. I know, he has the right, but I'm not sure that is righteous.

Rather, he needs to pray, fast and give Abba time to work in her heart even as he teaches (without badgering) her... then the fruit of repentance is peaceable without regret or harbored malice.

(Preparing for hand to hand combat with several on here... :eek::D)

Shalom.
 
I hear what you are saying and totally agree that the man has authority and she is to submit, however, forcing her to release him from a vow really strikes at his integrity...

Yes, maybe it was entered into in ignorance, I don't find that to be an excuse. Should he explain and support with Scripture his error? Yes! Should he ask for release? Sure. Should he demand? Nope. He has crossed a line from leader to dictator. I know, he has the right, but I'm not sure that is righteous.

Rather, he needs to pray, fast and give Abba time to work in her heart even as he teaches (without badgering) her... then the fruit of repentance is peaceable without regret or harbored malice.

(Preparing for hand to hand combat with several on here... :eek::D)

Shalom.

No argument from me. Spot on imo. And this is exactly how I handled things with @Mrs. Pacman
 
I hear what you are saying and totally agree that the man has authority and she is to submit, however, forcing her to release him from a vow really strikes at his integrity...

Yes, maybe it was entered into in ignorance, I don't find that to be an excuse. Should he explain and support with Scripture his error? Yes! Should he ask for release? Sure. Should he demand? Nope. He has crossed a line from leader to dictator. I know, he has the right, but I'm not sure that is righteous.

Rather, he needs to pray, fast and give Abba time to work in her heart even as he teaches (without badgering) her... then the fruit of repentance is peaceable without regret or harbored malice.

(Preparing for hand to hand combat with several on here... :eek::D)

Shalom.
I agree wholeheartedly with your practical application. It is most definitely best practices.
 
Yes, maybe it was entered into in ignorance, I don't find that to be an excuse. Should he explain and support with Scripture his error? Yes! Should he ask for release? Sure. Should he demand? Nope. He has crossed a line from leader to dictator. I know, he has the right, but I'm not sure that is righteous.

Practically speaking that's often going to be the wrong approach. But there is no Biblical injunction against a husband being a dictator. It is a fairly close description of the scope of a husbands powers Biblically. Niceness does not equal righteousness.
 
Practically speaking that's often going to be the wrong approach. But there is no Biblical injunction against a husband being a dictator. It is a fairly close description of the scope of a husbands powers Biblically. Niceness does not equal righteousness.
Agreed.... I just know that experience says many men play the dictator card too soon producing more, rather than less, turmoil and angst. Truth is, we all could use more patience and love with a good dose of discernment for the right time to be dictatorial. mho
 
I’m learning the hard way that I’ve leaned far too heavily on the “dick-tator” side of hubbying, ...and therefore failed miserably to gently and lovingly lead the precious ones entrusted to my care... definitely not worth the heart ache and damage!

However... A LOT of the problems within the dynamics of modern western marriages are due to cultural conditioning... (feminism, liberalism, paganism, etc)!!! These elements make it EXTREMELY difficult for a man of God to walk in his calling as a Patriarch... ESPECIALLY a polygynous hearted man trying to build his house as such!
 
I’m learning the hard way that I’ve leaned far too heavily on the “dick-tator” side of hubbying, ...and therefore failed miserably to gently and lovingly lead the precious ones entrusted to my care... definitely not worth the heart ache and damage!

However... A LOT of the problems within the dynamics of modern western marriages are due to cultural conditioning... (feminism, liberalism, paganism, etc)!!! These elements make it EXTREMELY difficult for a man of God to walk in his calling as a Patriarch... ESPECIALLY a polygynous hearted man trying to build his house as such!
Also, very true and part of what I have been patiently unraveling in my home with the help of Yah... it is a process that takes effort, prayer, reflection and introspection...

#admireyabro
#becomingrealmen
 
Also, very true and part of what I have been patiently unraveling in my home with the help of Yah... it is a process that takes effort, prayer, reflection and introspection...

#admireyabro
#becomingrealmen

I’m learning the hard way that I’ve leaned far too heavily on the “dick-tator” side of hubbying, ...and therefore failed miserably to gently and lovingly lead the precious ones entrusted to my care... definitely not worth the heart ache and damage!

However... A LOT of the problems within the dynamics of modern western marriages are due to cultural conditioning... (feminism, liberalism, paganism, etc)!!! These elements make it EXTREMELY difficult for a man of God to walk in his calling as a Patriarch... ESPECIALLY a polygynous hearted man trying to build his house as such!

I think some are too heavy and some are too easy. We should try to be “just right”
 
I think some are too heavy and some are too easy. We should try to be “just right”

I should add that I think every woman is different and that should have an impact here as well. Peters admonition seems to fit.

1 Peter 3:7 KJV
[7] Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
 
I should add that I think every woman is different and that should have an impact here as well
That’s a gross oversimplification, my brother.
Even race motors change with atmospheric conditions, and they are simple compared to....er.....human beings.

(Anybody follow Cleetus McFarland?)
 
That’s a gross oversimplification, my brother.
Even race motors change with atmospheric conditions, and they are simple compared to....er.....human beings.

(Anybody follow Cleetus McFarland?)

I’m confused? Are you agreeing with me but saying my statement is not complete??
 
experience says many men play the dictator card too soon producing more, rather than less, turmoil and angst

That is true; especially when they are first learning to be a patriarch.

Most men are pretty much the opposite of dictator; and that's a problem.
 
I’m confused? Are you agreeing with me but saying my statement is not complete??
Yes, I am just kiddingly telling you that you didn’t go far enough.
 
If a conversation between a father and a son goes like this, “Dad! Kurt Warner was the best quarterback of all time! Dad says, No son, Tom Brady is. Why do you think Kurt Warner is?” This could become a heated discussion. However, heated or not, it can be a healthy discussion. Stats start flying past each other as they debate their views. Same discussion. “Dad! Kurt Warner was the best quarterback of all time! Dad says, How stupid can you be, Tom Brady is the best quarterback of all time! End of discussion!”

Things got quiet quickly in the second discussion. No arguments, no fight just a quiet evening.

There is no derailment in my part from headship of a family. I take issue with the term ‘Dictator’. One reason to allow healthy discussion is to help your family grow in intellect. Putting a halt on discussion stops the process of growth and maturity within the family.

Heck, I’ve raised some pretty sharp kids. I can now use their advice on some things. Usually around 22 years of age, I saw wisdom coming through. Unfortunately, not all have reached 22 yet.
 
If a conversation between a father and a son goes like this, “Dad! Kurt Warner was the best quarterback of all time! Dad says, No son, Tom Brady is. Why do you think Kurt Warner is?” This could become a heated discussion. However, heated or not, it can be a healthy discussion. Stats start flying past each other as they debate their views. Same discussion. “Dad! Kurt Warner was the best quarterback of all time! Dad says, How stupid can you be, Tom Brady is the best quarterback of all time! End of discussion!”

Things got quiet quickly in the second discussion. No arguments, no fight just a quiet evening.

There is no derailment in my part from headship of a family. I take issue with the term ‘Dictator’. One reason to allow healthy discussion is to help your family grow in intellect. Putting a halt on discussion stops the process of growth and maturity within the family.

Heck, I’ve raised some pretty sharp kids. I can now use their advice on some things. Usually around 22 years of age, I saw wisdom coming through. Unfortunately, not all have reached 22 yet.

You seem to be confusing 'dictator' with 'jackass'. This is a problem with emotionally laden terms like dictator.
 
Practically speaking that's often going to be the wrong approach. But there is no Biblical injunction against a husband being a dictator. It is a fairly close description of the scope of a husbands powers Biblically. Niceness does not equal righteousness.
Nice? Well not everything or everyone who said anything in the OT was very "nice", lol. How about "get behind me satan"?

I do agree what your saying, but it's not the most tactful, as mentioned. I am reminded on occasion that God didn't force anyone to do anything. Some consider force to be telling someone to do something several times while being ignored. I'm told this is controlling. News to me, but this word is thrown easily theses days and I often hear it said when a husband does something deemed "not nice". I am sure we're all controlling Husbands in that regard, then wouldn't God be as well?
 
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