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Prayer request Pray for the people of Israel

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MemeFan said:
Does Israel welcomes Arabs as Germany and USA immigrants. Nope.
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Incorrect. There are Arabs living in Israel and there are four quarters in the Old City, which includes a Muslim quarter. I know it's there because I've been there! Have you been to the Dome of the Rock or the Al-Aqsa mosque? These are places exclusively for Muslims to worship and they are in Jerusalem. Have you seen any Jewish or Christians sites in Gaza where Jews or Christians have protected access and exclusive right to worship? If you have seen them personally, please let me know. Shalom
 
Israel has ordered the evacuation of all of northern Gaza, into southern Gaza, within 24 hours.
This is 1.1 million people who have to move immediately. That includes children, hospital patients, everyone.
Southern Gaza does not have sufficient facilities for the people who live there already. They are expected to suddenly double the population density in a war-ravaged area that is already one of the most densely populated areas of the world.
The order was issued at midnight. By the time people have woken up and heard the order, by say 8am, that actually leaves only 16 hours to evacuate all those people.
No humanitarian corridors have been opened - there is no promise to not attack certain roads for instance, or a promise to not bomb Gaza during that period. Just an order for 1.1 million people who are currently sheltering from bombardment to come out in the open and move with no assurance they will not be bombed while doing so.
Every relevant agency including the UN says this is completely impossible.

This would be the largest single displacement of Palestinian people ever. The largest Palestinian movement in history occurred in 1948, when 700,000 people moved, and that happened in dribs and drabs over about a year. This larger displacement is expected to occur in less than a day. It ain't gonna happen.

I've never heard of anything like this ever being ordered before in all of human history (large displacements have occurred but never within such a timeframe).

And what will Israel do when the evacuation does not occur because it was always impossible?
 
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FollowingHim said:
Israel has ordered the evacuation of all of northern Gaza, into southern Gaza, within 24 hours.
This is 1.1 million people who have to move immediately. That includes children, hospital patients, everyone.
Southern Gaza does not have sufficient facilities for the people who live there already. They are expected to suddenly double the population density in a war-ravaged area that is already one of the most densely populated areas of the world.
The order was issued at midnight. By the time people have woken up and heard the order, by say 8am, that actually leaves only 16 hours to evacuate all those people.
No humanitarian corridors have been opened - there is no promise to not attack certain roads for instance, or a promise to not bomb Gaza during that period. Just an order for 1.1 million people who are currently sheltering from bombardment to come out in the open and move with no assurance they will not be bombed while doing so.
Every relevant agency including the UN says this is completely impossible.

This would be the largest single displacement of Palestinian people ever. The largest Palestinian movement in history occurred in 1948, when 700,000 people moved, and that happened in dribs and drabs over about a year. This larger displacement is expected to occur in less than a day. It ain't gonna happen.

I've never heard of anything like this ever being ordered before in all of human history (large displacements have occurred but never within such a timeframe).

And what will Israel do when the evacuation does not occur because it was always impossible?
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Invasion preparation?
 
MemeFan said:
Table with dead from bombing attacts won't matter. Point is behaviour and dynamics of conflict.

This conflict is simmering for decades and it's impossible not to do attrocities by both sides. Israel may not use suicide bombers, but depriving population of food and water is punishing innocent with guilty.

Problem is that even if your side "gets decent", why wouldn't other side find that "decency" as weakness to be exploited?

And even if both sides want peace, both sides will have warlike factions which want opposite. How will they be keept under control?


Did you forget Israel is ethnostate? Does Israel welcomes Arabs as Germany and USA immigrants. Nope.

So second-status for Arabs and marginalization. So they won't be happy. And whaf if Israel refuses any reform like not treating Arabs as second citizens? If peaceful resolution isn't possible there is only violence.
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I can’t do this with you over this topic. You have ingested too much falsehood and you are too willing to gullibly swallow whatever you are told.

I will say this and then I have to ignore this conversation; Israel is the largest supplier of aid to Gaza in the world and has supplied them free water and electricity for decades even though Gaza has been completely autonomous since 2005: On top of that, Hamas is the elected government of Gaza and by all accounts receives widespread support from the people there.

To try and draw some kind of moral equivalency between the perverse viciousness of Hamas’ attack and the military response to it is insane and shows a complete lack of reason and discernment.

Israel is giving the Gazan citizens escape routes and warnings. That is far more than they deserve.

Why are you always on the side of the murderous aggressor? The question is rhetorical. I will not be responding to this thread as I will be unable to contain my rage at the wishy washy twaddle that is going to flow through it.
 
Hamas is claiming that it is a fake order.
They want to keep the civilians in place in order to keep shielding Hamas

War is hell.
Israel did not choose this war.
 
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The Revolting Man said:
I can’t do this with you over this topic. You have ingested too much falsehood and you are too willing to gullibly swallow whatever you are told.
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Nobody can't defeat terorrism. It's tactic with infinite variants. And both sides can use it.

I agree with you, @The Revolting Man, going into details and who has done what is counterproductive. But after 70+ years of conflict how can this be "clean conflict"? It can't be.

Even if military operation is clean there will still harming of innocents. Scale is only question.

Hamas isn't lead by angels and neither is Israel. Ask yourself why Hamas has 50% support. Maybe because somebody brother/sister was killed and now this person wants revenge/protection.

So circle of violence continues, peace isn't possible and new attrocities are planned and seen justified by both sides. Such is dynamics of conflict like this. Nobody even remembers how it started.

The Revolting Man said:
To try and draw some kind of moral equivalency between the perverse viciousness of Hamas’ attack and the military response to it is insane and shows a complete lack of reason and discernment.
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I'm sorry, but killing innocents by Hamas doesn't justify Israeli government doing the same. This is basic morality. Be able to apply to good sides.

The Revolting Man said:
Israel is giving the Gazan citizens escape routes and warnings. That is far more than they deserve.
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This is false. Egypt can't receive 4 million people and Israel has bombed only border crossing as reported by @FollowingHim. PR campaign.

The Revolting Man said:
Why are you always on the side of the murderous aggressor? The question is rhetorical. I will not be responding to this thread as I will be unable to contain my rage at the wishy washy twaddle that is going to flow through it.
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Nope. What is happening is same as in Ukraine thread. You think situation is black/white and I doubt it.

Reality has suprising amount of detail:
taylorpearson.me

Overconfidence Bias: What It Is and How to Overcome It

Do you know how a can opener works?? Easy? Now, draw a diagram or write out an explanation... Not so easy, right?
taylorpearson.me taylorpearson.me

And again, as in Ukraine thread, many haven't checked does Israeli government has incentive to lie, cheat and make whole situation Israeli 9/11. Well it has.

While Hamas has started the war and it responsible for murders, it doesn't mean that Israeli government is automatically of hook. If they know what Hamas has planned and they did nothing, they are guilty of omission. Knowing someone is planning murder and you doing nothing, is reason enough for jail time.

So did Israeli government allowed Hamas success? Well, found few sources mentioning Netanyahu faces jail time due to corruption. Good little war is proven fix. I say proven because Caesar was in similar situation, so war it was.

Additionally, Egypt has informed Israelis several hours before attack. And now, according to tweet I saw, there was meeting of Israeli General HQ. So they did know? And allowed Hamas to proceed without raising alarm? And how did one of most controlled borders was passed so easily? Question asked, with reason, by Israeli dissent group. This stinks till heaven.
 
I think Christians in general should stop automatically rushing to Israel side. Otherwise, no matter how dumm, stupid or immoral Israel's actions are, you will whitewash them. See their sins, they aren't sinless and their sins tell us nothing about Lord's love for Israel.

And it would be wise to be way more sceptical of any political claim.

Do you what would be most unwelcome? Is this regime psy-ops to restore their rule? People hate them due to inflation, war in Ukraine and covid. And know regime is in good graces because they support Israel. C'mon, it's possibility. Nothing is beneath such people.

Will warmongers in West finally get their war to consolidate power and print ton of money for themselves, while inflation destroys population. And people will be glad to be enslaved because at least Jews are safe.
 
Ok, that's enough. The last thing we need on this forum is another argument about geopolitics. This is a critically important issue as it could well start WW3, and it would be very valuable if we could discuss it calmly and rationally because it could well impact all of us very deeply very soon, but that isn't going to happen. I'm guilty of pushing this discussion myself, and I should not have done that either.

On @The Revolting Man's suggestion, I am locking this thread, to keep us focussed on marriage ministry.

The original topic of this thread is "Pray for the people of Israel". Let us just do that. We do not need to discuss it in order to pray.

We know from scripture that whenever the people of Israel turn away from God, they are oppressed by the people around them. While whenever they turn back to Him, they are saved from this suffering. At present, Israel is largely apostate - most residents are atheists, many are Jews who reject their Messiah, many are Muslims, and only a small handful by comparison are Messianic / Christian and are truly turning to God. As always, there will be no salvation for Israel until the people cry out to God for their Saviour.

Pray that God would draw the atheistic Jews to Him, the religious Jews to their Messiah, the Muslims to Him also, and give the Christians and Messianic Jews the strength to stand through whatever comes and the opportunities to be God's tools through which He will work.

And in the meantime, pray for the physical safety of all peaceful people within the borders of the Holy Land, whether Israeli or Palestinian. And pray that whatever bloody road is travelled over the next few days / weeks / months / years, the destination of that road will be peace, and that destination will be reached as quickly as God is willing to will.
 
For those who do wish to discuss this contentious matter, I will start a private conversation for us to thrash these issues out on without offending others on the forum. If you want to be part of this conversation, like this comment and I will add you to it.
 
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