• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

Prevalence

keep an open mind bc we don’t know where revelation may come from. I was trying to do that. I’m sorry if I made anyone uncomfortable with my questions and I never tried to hurt your feelings.
@Smilesgalore, I can't speak for anyone but myself, but you didn't make me uncomfortable, nor did I think you were trying to hurt my or anyone else's feelings. But perhaps that misses the point of engaging in this type of discussion. Often, the most valuable and transformational revelations come about in the midst of being uncomfortable. Attempting to box discussion into a comfortable, non-threatening framework tends to keep people so comfortable that they not only avoid allowing their own presuppositions to be challenged to the point of transcendence, but being driven by the desire to keep everyone else comfortable as well as part of the social agreement translates into the equivalent of a nice back-rub in an upscale spa: sure does feel good, but no learning takes place -- and the recipient tends to go right back out into the world making the same mistakes they made that led them to need a massage in the first place.

I get that you're here to engage in some interactive field research. I've had my own share of sociological-type coursework. Find another culture to observe. Do the observation. Then write about it as if one is just an omniscient non-participant. Or, in some cases, like your assignment appears to be, the observer also engages in a little directed commentary in which the observer doesn't remain entirely aloof. Given that you're not just taking notes on us, though, maybe the experience would be more enriching for all of us if you would give us more of a window into your own soul. You've let us know you're observing us; how about making it reciprocal by telling us a lot more about yourself.
 
@Smilesgalore, I can't speak for anyone but myself, but you didn't make me uncomfortable, nor did I think you were trying to hurt my or anyone else's feelings. But perhaps that misses the point of engaging in this type of discussion. Often, the most valuable and transformational revelations come about in the midst of being uncomfortable. Attempting to box discussion into a comfortable, non-threatening framework tends to keep people so comfortable that they not only avoid allowing their own presuppositions to be challenged to the point of transcendence, but being driven by the desire to keep everyone else comfortable as well as part of the social agreement translates into the equivalent of a nice back-rub in an upscale spa: sure does feel good, but no learning takes place -- and the recipient tends to go right back out into the world making the same mistakes they made that led them to need a massage in the first place.

I get that you're here to engage in some interactive field research. I've had my own share of sociological-type coursework. Find another culture to observe. Do the observation. Then write about it as if one is just an omniscient non-participant. Or, in some cases, like your assignment appears to be, the observer also engages in a little directed commentary in which the observer doesn't remain entirely aloof. Given that you're not just taking notes on us, though, maybe the experience would be more enriching for all of us if you would give us more of a window into your own soul. You've let us know you're observing us; how about making it reciprocal by telling us a lot more about yourself.
I wasn’t just trying to observe. I was trying to learn. And I was not given as assignment on observing religions, although I’m sure plenty of papers will come out of what I may learn . We have reading assignments in many spiritual books including the Bible. I’m not sure what you might want to know about me since I am a guest in your community. I don’t get the feeling I belong here, which is fine, but since sit is a public group I figured I would give it a try.
 
I guess my point is that I was trying to learn as much as possible for the spirit of the class. I stumbled on this forum and thought it might be a good place to ask questions. Our syllabus says to keep an open mind bc we don’t know where revelation may come from. I was trying to do that. I’m sorry if I made anyone uncomfortable with my questions and I never tried to hurt your feelings.
You are most welcome here; we appreciate people who are genuinely interested in joining the discussions, asking questions, and posting comments. You might not agree with something someone posts and he or she might not agree with you but we're all here for promoting understanding of marriage; whether that be celibacy, monogamy or polygamy. Blessings
 
I guess my point is that I was trying to learn as much as possible for the spirit of the class. I stumbled on this forum and thought it might be a good place to ask questions. Our syllabus says to keep an open mind bc we don’t know where revelation may come from. I was trying to do that. I’m sorry if I made anyone uncomfortable with my questions and I never tried to hurt your feelings.
Speaking for myself, I did not feel uncomfortable with any of your perspectives shared and was not hurt from what you’ve shared. In fact, I appreciate your open mindedness and transparent, straightforward approach. This forum brings together many different views and I like how varied people are, though I might not agree with everyone; and I rarely “jump in” to the conversation. I mainly stick to the ladies section and ladies chat.
Something you mentioned about different groups you are part of resonated with a message I heard many years ago that has stuck with me- in that, it’s important to not just know what I believe but why do I believe what I believe and likewise, it’s important to explore why I don’t believe what I don’t believe. I, too, spent time learning about different religions and enjoy asking questions. I’m a Christian and sadly, yes, I too have seen some Christian communities do exactly as you mentioned, say one, do another. It took me awhile to be interested in stepping into my now home church community and willing to give them a chance. Thankfully, years later I feel I found my people, my community and it’s made a positive difference in my life. Good on you for being open enough to jump in and engage in conversation.
 
I wasn’t just trying to observe. I was trying to learn. And I was not given as assignment on observing religions, although I’m sure plenty of papers will come out of what I may learn . We have reading assignments in many spiritual books including the Bible. I’m not sure what you might want to know about me since I am a guest in your community. I don’t get the feeling I belong here, which is fine, but since sit is a public group I figured I would give it a try.
similarly, I’m one who seeks to learn and understand.…just not as brave as you to jump right in! I’m more of a dip the toe in slowlllyy. lol.
I’m curious to learn if your major is relevant to your class or if not, what drew you to a religion class? Also, how’s it going in class? When I was in class, I remember one of my favorite parts was the discussions and insights from my colleagues’ research. What do you hope to walk away with by the class’s end? And generally speaking, I’d love to learn more about you :) what are your hobbies and interests?
 
@Smilesgalore, you're most welcome here, and it's great to have your questions. You haven't made anybody else feel uncomfortable in any way at all. We all care about each other here, and speak bluntly to each other from time to time. The fact that @Keith Martin felt comfortable enough to bless you with some blunt words of advice shows you are welcome, not that you are unwelcome!

Now, you might feel you are just here to get answers to some specific questions. But from what you have told us about yourself, it is very clear that you have a much deeper hunger to learn about religion in general. You're spending your spare time in every conceivable campus club and on here, trying to understand God. Why? Most secular people think religion is pointless fairytales. Who'd want to read some dusty old religious books and think about talking to an invisible being that might not even exist? Yet you feel drawn to figure this out. Polygamy is a detail, it's not fundamentally what you're trying to understand. God is calling you.

As you try to resolve all the different things you are hearing from so many different people and religions, consider this:

Did you know that the one person the Quran speaks about most is Jesus? So if you want to understand either Christianity or Islam, or their offshoots like Bahai and Mormonism, most religions in fact, go back to the roots and you'll find the answers in one place:
Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:46: "Then in the footsteps of the prophets, We sent Jesus, son of Mary, confirming the Torah revealed before him. And We gave him the Gospel containing guidance and light and confirming what was revealed in the Torah—a guide and a lesson to the God-fearing."
The answers to all your most important questions will be found in the Torah (Genesis - Deuteronomy), as explained by Jesus in the Gospel (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John).
 
I think all parties involved would have to be VERY committed to the idea of marriage (however you structure that) because where I come from a woman cannot depend on a man to provide a living. I have been raised to be independent and hope for the best, but if/when things fall through I will have the skill and ability to support myself and my children if I ever have them. Relying on a man is not something I ever considered reasonable. I’m sure men could say the same in various aspects of women, but I am just speaking for myself here as a young adult female. Polygyny seems particularly risky in that line of thinking
In the culture I come from men think they cannot depend on Jesus Christ to take care of them, so we are raised to be independent of God.

It doesn't work well, so I'm trying to learn to trust and rely on Jesus.

God the Father -God the Son-man-woman-children is the pattern we all have to follow, even if it is scary.
 
You are most welcome here; we appreciate people who are genuinely interested in joining the discussions, asking questions, and posting comments. You might not agree with something someone posts and he or she might not agree with you but we're all here for promoting understanding of marriage; whether that be celibacy, monogamy or polygamy. Blessings
I appreciate your gentle welcome, thank you!
 
@Smilesgalore, you're most welcome here, and it's great to have your questions. You haven't made anybody else feel uncomfortable in any way at all. We all care about each other here, and speak bluntly to each other from time to time. The fact that @Keith Martin felt comfortable enough to bless you with some blunt words of advice shows you are welcome, not that you are unwelcome!

Now, you might feel you are just here to get answers to some specific questions. But from what you have told us about yourself, it is very clear that you have a much deeper hunger to learn about religion in general. You're spending your spare time in every conceivable campus club and on here, trying to understand God. Why? Most secular people think religion is pointless fairytales. Who'd want to read some dusty old religious books and think about talking to an invisible being that might not even exist? Yet you feel drawn to figure this out. Polygamy is a detail, it's not fundamentally what you're trying to understand. God is calling you.

As you try to resolve all the different things you are hearing from so many different people and religions, consider this:

Did you know that the one person the Quran speaks about most is Jesus? So if you want to understand either Christianity or Islam, or their offshoots like Bahai and Mormonism, most religions in fact, go back to the roots and you'll find the answers in one place:
Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:46: "Then in the footsteps of the prophets, We sent Jesus, son of Mary, confirming the Torah revealed before him. And We gave him the Gospel containing guidance and light and confirming what was revealed in the Torah—a guide and a lesson to the God-fearing."
The answers to all your most important questions will be found in the Torah (Genesis - Deuteronomy), as explained by Jesus in the Gospel (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John).
I did not know that about the Quran. I have a friend who invited me to mosque so I will ask her about that! I have always found people really interesting, and I am curious about religion because the world is so divided. I would like to understand the differences snd what people actually believe before I form any opinions. One of our assignments is to read the book of John! We actually have to choose two different translations to read from then compare.
 
similarly, I’m one who seeks to learn and understand.…just not as brave as you to jump right in! I’m more of a dip the toe in slowlllyy. lol.
I’m curious to learn if your major is relevant to your class or if not, what drew you to a religion class? Also, how’s it going in class? When I was in class, I remember one of my favorite parts was the discussions and insights from my colleagues’ research. What do you hope to walk away with by the class’s end? And generally speaking, I’d love to learn more about you :) what are your hobbies and interests?
You are very kind! I will start classes the week of June 6th. Our syllabus was already posted, so I decided to dive in early. I am taking 3 summer electives, so I won’t have any time to waste. I finish my Freshman year next week with my final exams. My major is still undeclared and I need to figure that out. This year I took heavier math and sciences, so I planned on taking electives over summer. So far what I am taking will fit into any degree’s requirements, but I need to choose a set major next year. I am most interested in nursing and teaching but those fields split into vastly different classes after the Sophomore year. Honestly I thought I would marry that bf I mentioned previously but that didn’t work out. I enjoy sports and I am here on a Volleyball scholarship. That will start at the end of the summer. I also enjoy things like swimming and having time with friends. I like to learn and lots of things interest me. I love music and going to concerts or sitting with friends at this little piano bar here near campus. I don’t really party bc I don’t like how I feel when I drink too much. I am just waiting to see what happens in my life and trying to make good choices. I don’t know if I want to marry now, but I don’t have much experience with men. I was raised by my mom mostly and saw my dad on weekends. My dad is a nice guy, but for some reason my parents split when I was really little. My best friend is a lesbian. She is like a sister to me and we have known each other since elementary school. She is a sweet person with a good heart, and it bothers me when people are hateful about gay people. I understand disagreeing based on religion, but I don’t think hate is necessary. I had a crush on my chemistry professor this semester, which made learning interesting. Hahaha. He was so hot! Those thoughts were pretty random. Thanks for taking interest in me being here! I enjoy learning about different cultures and that is my very favorite part of living on campus!
 
I did not know that about the Quran. I have a friend who invited me to mosque so I will ask her about that! I have always found people really interesting, and I am curious about religion because the world is so divided. I would like to understand the differences snd what people actually believe before I form any opinions. One of our assignments is to read the book of John! We actually have to choose two different translations to read from then compare.
Your Muslim friend will tell you that the Torah and the Gospels were perverted after they were given. Their claim is that originally both the Torah and the Gospel were in agreement with the later Quran. The reply a Christian would give us that we know the Torah and Gospel we have today are the same as existed at the time of Mohammed so when Mohammed. So if they were corrupted it had to be before Mohammed endorsed them as being a true word. So Mohammed would have then endorsed a corrupted Torah and Gospel meaning that he couldn’t have been a prophet either way.

This may not seem important now but your Muslim friends are performing Dawah on you, basically trying to convert you to Islam, and it will be important to know both sides of the argument.
 
Your Muslim friend will tell you that the Torah and the Gospels were perverted after they were given. Their claim is that originally both the Torah and the Gospel were in agreement with the later Quran. The reply a Christian would give us that we know the Torah and Gospel we have today are the same as existed at the time of Mohammed so when Mohammed. So if they were corrupted it had to be before Mohammed endorsed them as being a true word. So Mohammed would have then endorsed a corrupted Torah and Gospel meaning that he couldn’t have been a prophet either way.

This may not seem important now but your Muslim friends are performing Dawah on you, basically trying to convert you to Islam, and it will be important to know both sides of the argument.
Yes, I knew something of the similarities. I think everyone wants to convert you to what they believe. I guess that is noble if they truly believe it is the truth. This Christian guy in the campus crusade group I joined lays it on REALLY thick. It can be off putting, like he is more interested in checking off a convert box than actually getting to know me. Sometimes I feel like everyone just wants to be right. I guess we all do but people are people not projects.
 
In the culture I come from men think they cannot depend on Jesus Christ to take care of them, so we are raised to be independent of God.

It doesn't work well, so I'm trying to learn to trust and rely on Jesus.

God the Father -God the Son-man-woman-children is the pattern we all have to follow, even if it is scary.
OT, but very interesting observation.

I've long recognized woman's seeming inherent mistrust of man, and I've long recognized all in the structure (child, woman, man, Messiah) as having a 'head/master', but never noticed the inherent mistrust that flows upward... children, especially teens, mistrust parents, women mistrust men, men mistrust the Messiah! Interesting.

In Messiah we do have a perfect example of Him trusting Yah, even unto death, and being raised in glory!. How cool!

Now, back to the topic!
 
I did not know that about the Quran. I have a friend who invited me to mosque so I will ask her about that! I have always found people really interesting, and I am curious about religion because the world is so divided. I would like to understand the differences snd what people actually believe before I form any opinions. One of our assignments is to read the book of John! We actually have to choose two different translations to read from then compare.
I'm so glad to hear that you are reading the Gospel of John. It's probably my favorite book of the Bible (hard because one probably shouldn't have a "favorite book of the Bible", and because I love Hebrews and Romans so much too).

Pay special attention to all of Jesus "I am" statements, such as "I am the resurrection and the life", "I am the bread from heaven", "I am the light of the world", etc. May God help you believe everything Jesus said.👍
 
I did not know that about the Quran. I have a friend who invited me to mosque so I will ask her about that!
Zec has told you the answer your Muslim friend will have been taught about that, and will repeat to you. And he's shown you it's incorrect - the Bible is far more solidly backed by ancient documents than any other book. The few disagreements that do exist in the ancient copies only affect minor details of theology.

Bear in mind that all established religions are based on both ancient religious texts, and later accepted interpretations of those texts. In most cases people actually follow the later teachings more than they follow the ancient text itself.
- Christians have the Bible, but they actually follow the teaching of their church denomination, which tells them what the Bible "means". For instance, they teach monogamy, even though the Bible clearly allows polygamy.
- Muslims have the Quran, but they actually follow the Hadiths, later teaching which tells them what the Quran "means". For instance, they'll say not to read the Torah and Gospels even though the Quran clearly instructs them to.
- Jews have the Tanach (Old Testament), but actually follow the Talmud, which tells them what the Tanach "means" and adds lots of problematic content.

You have to go back to the original sources rather than just following the teachings of later humans.

I had a Muslim friend at university, a foreign student from a very restrictive Muslim country. He smuggled a Bible back into his country illegally so that he could study the Torah and Gospels in order to be a better Muslim than his government would permit!

Although I believe there are many problems with the Quran, I also believe that if you were to just read that and the other books it instructs you to read, you'd end up being led to follow Jesus. Many, many Muslims around the world are being led to Jesus through the Quran, because it points so strongly to Him. But the average imam isn't going to point someone in that direction any more than the average Christian pastor would point someone towards the Bible alone and not to the beliefs of their denomination.
 
Last edited:
One of our assignments is to read the book of John! We actually have to choose two different translations to read from then compare.
TL/DR: To make this interesting, so you don't accidentally read two versions that are too similar, I'd suggest comparing the KJV and whatever newer translation is on your bookshelf. There's a sound reason for that though.

When choosing translations of New Testament books to read and compare, there are two things to consider:

1) Which original Greek text version is being used? There are basically two, the "Received Text" (Textus Receptus / Byzantine text) which was preserved and actively used by most churches for most of history. And the United Bible Societies (UBS / Nestle-Aland) text, which was compiled from a smaller number of texts considered the oldest by scholars working in the 19th and 20th centuries. Most substantive differences between New Testament translations are due to these differences. The Received Text is slightly longer than the UBS.

2) Which translation method is used? Again there are basically two: word-for-word (trying to precisely translate the words in the original text, even if it isn't how you'd normally say that thing in English), and thought-for-thought (trying to understand what the original text means, and then write down that meaning however the translator would say it). This makes word-for-word translations more accurate but harder to read, and thought-for-thought less accurate (as they can say what the translator thinks rather than what the Bible actually says) but easier to read.

If you want to make this interesting, so you don't end up reading two almost-identical versions, I'd pick one Received Text word-for-word version, and one UBS thought-for-thought version.

RT word-for-word: KJV or World English Bible.
There aren't many translations using the Received Text. The KJV used it, but the fashion has shifted to using the UBS version for more modern translations. The only modern translation using it is the World English Bible. I'd recommend the KJV simply because it's got such a long heritage and it's great to be familiar with, use the WEB if you struggle with the language. Both are word-for-word style translations.

UBS thought-for-thought: Whatever is on your bookshelf.
Any bible you pick up and think "this is easy to read" will be one of these translations. Most of the popular translations are (sadly, since thought-for-thought is less accurate). The New International (NIV), The Living Bible, Contempory English Version (CEV) and so forth.

If you really can't handle the KJV and can't obtain the WEB, substitute with a UBS word-for-word translation - e.g. New King James, American Standard, New American Standard, English Standard (NKJV, ASV, NASB, ESV). This will give you a comparison of translation style, but there won't be as many differences as if you used the KJV or the WEB since both of your translations will be from the same Greek text, so your study won't be as interesting as it could have been.
 
Last edited:
TL/DR: To make this interesting, so you don't accidentally read two versions that are too similar, I'd suggest comparing the KJV and whatever newer translation is on your bookshelf. There's a sound reason for that though.

When choosing translations of New Testament books to read and compare, there are two things to consider:

1) Which original Greek text version is being used? There are basically two, the "Received Text" (Textus Receptus / Byzantine text) which was preserved and actively used by most churches for most of history. And the United Bible Societies (UBS / Nestle-Aland) text, which was compiled from a smaller number of texts considered the oldest by scholars working in the 19th and 20th centuries. Most substantive differences between New Testament translations are due to these differences. The Received Text is slightly longer than the UBS.

2) Which translation method is used? Again there are basically two: word-for-word (trying to precisely translate the words in the original text, even if it isn't how you'd normally say that thing in English), and thought-for-thought (trying to understand what the original text means, and then write down that meaning however the translator would say it). This makes word-for-word translations more accurate but harder to read, and thought-for-thought less accurate (as they can say what the translator thinks rather than what the Bible actually says) but easier to read.

If you want to make this interesting, so you don't end up reading two almost-identical versions, I'd pick one Received Text word-for-word version, and one UBS thought-for-thought version.

RT word-for-word: KJV or World English Bible.
There aren't many translations using the Received Text. The KJV used it, but the fashion has shifted to using the UBS version for more modern translations. The only modern translation using it is the World English Bible. I'd recommend the KJV simply because it's got such a long heritage and it's great to be familiar with, use the WEB if you struggle with the language. Both are word-for-word style translations.

UBS thought-for-thought: Whatever is on your bookshelf.
Any bible you pick up and think "this is easy to read" will be one of these translations. Most of the popular translations are (sadly, since thought-for-thought is less accurate). The New International (NIV), The Living Bible, Contempory English Version (CEV) and so forth.

If you really can't handle the KJV and can't obtain the WEB, substitute with a UBS word-for-word translation - e.g. New King James, American Standard, New American Standard, English Standard (NKJV, ASV, NASB, ESV). This will give you a comparison of translation style, but there won't be as many differences as if you used the KJV or the WEB since both of your translations will be from the same Greek text, so your study won't be as interesting as it could have been.
Have you been to seminary? You are very knowledgeable and helpful!
 
Have you been to seminary? You are very knowledgeable and helpful!
FollowingHim is knowledgeable and helpful.

I'd suggest English Standard Version (ESV), New King James (NKJV) and New American Standard Bible (NASB), maybe New Living in those are too difficult and King James version if you are ambitious.
 
I'm so glad to hear that you are reading the Gospel of John. It's probably my favorite book of the Bible (hard because one probably shouldn't have a "favorite book of the Bible", and because I love Hebrews and Romans so much too).

Pay special attention to all of Jesus "I am" statements, such as "I am the resurrection and the life", "I am the bread from heaven", "I am the light of the world", etc. May God help you believe everything Jesus said.👍
Yeah... all those 'I am...' statements either make Him Lord, lunatic, or liar.... Hard to dodge.
 
Back
Top