You are a man among men. I am so jealous you caught this and then so expertly delivered it that no one can even chide you. Slow clap sir. We're not worthy!
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Should a woman be a pastor?
- Thread starter Rose of Sharon
- Start date
There is apparently no valid reason for a woman to even attend church. They should not speak in church and should not be taught by anyone other than their own husband. They can worship at home and be "keepers at home".
I Guess it is wrong for a woman to work outside the home as well, lest she have a male boss in her work place.
The fellow here who has a nurse for a wife should make her quit! A doctor, or some hospital administrator is no doubt a male authority over her.
Is this what is being proposed here?
I Guess it is wrong for a woman to work outside the home as well, lest she have a male boss in her work place.
The fellow here who has a nurse for a wife should make her quit! A doctor, or some hospital administrator is no doubt a male authority over her.
Is this what is being proposed here?
She can listen in the assembly, but if she has questions, she is to ask her husband at home. I’m not keen on wives having male bosses other than her husband.
I’m still curious as to why women can’t be apostles.
The short answer … the woman cannot usurp authority over the man.
If a woman is operating under a man's authority, then even when functioning over men under her, there is still a man over her who is being the source of her authority. I realize that many would disagree, but the scripture says: 1st Apostles, 2nd Prophets, 3rd Teachers. I see these as a hierarchy since Paul said, "if any man think himself to be a Prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." (I would say the term men here is inclusive of mankind, including women) Pastors are not even in the top 3 of Spiritual Rank.
A woman may even be a Prophet (as Deborah was), but now that the Apostolic is come, that office is reserved for males. Before Pentecost,
all gifts and callings operated by Anointing,
Indwelling was not available. A woman may hold any spiritual office other than Husband or Apostle. She cannot be an Apostle. In all the other offices, (husband, or no husband) there is always to be a higher spiritual authority above her... even if it has to go all the way to the Apostolic office. If she were to hold the office of Apostle, there is no room for male spiritual hierarchy over her. If Married, she also needs her Husband's approval to function in any leadership role. Although in 'spiritual authority', she might hold an office of calling that outranks the gifts and callings of her husband, a higher authority is always in place. I do not hold that men and women are completely equal in the church. Keeping higher male authority in the picture, coupled with husband's approval, strikes the proper balance.Some would equate the office of Apostle to that of a Missionary, which is really then, just an Evangelist. A true Apostle is one who establishes doctrine. Acts 2:42.
I like what @Jim an Apostle wrote. One thing to keep in mind is hierarchy for the family. IMO, if anyone is in submission to a pastor, that person is clearly wrong. The family structure is God first, Christ second, husband third, wife fourth then the children. This hierarchy, when established in the home, is what God had planned. If you place anyone, pastor, teacher, etc, in a place of authority over your home, your outside biblical hierarchy.
Many have said a woman should not be placed in a position of authority over men in a church. I propose that by the same token, neither should a man be placed in authority over men in the church. Leadership? Yes. The Apostles needed help to run the daily affairs of the church and chose, I believe 7 men (if memory serves correctly) to serve as deacons. My grandfather named me after one of those deacons.
What I’m trying to say, is that we men are the heads of our households. Not anyone from the five fold ministry. The five fold ministry is there to guide and give leadership, not usurp a man’s authority in the family. So I think the term ‘having authority over men’ used when discussing a woman’s role in the church is probably an incorrect phrase. Since church leadership is more of a guidance role.
Many have said a woman should not be placed in a position of authority over men in a church. I propose that by the same token, neither should a man be placed in authority over men in the church. Leadership? Yes. The Apostles needed help to run the daily affairs of the church and chose, I believe 7 men (if memory serves correctly) to serve as deacons. My grandfather named me after one of those deacons.
What I’m trying to say, is that we men are the heads of our households. Not anyone from the five fold ministry. The five fold ministry is there to guide and give leadership, not usurp a man’s authority in the family. So I think the term ‘having authority over men’ used when discussing a woman’s role in the church is probably an incorrect phrase. Since church leadership is more of a guidance role.
I copy and paste the markups in the brackets. You have to have one at the start and one at the end. When you reply you get the two at the start and end of the original message. But you can copy and paste them and have more than one in a message. Let me know if it is still not clear.
So like Mother Teresa was heavily involved in ministry and I would say maybe even an important part of the modern church, but I do not recall reading a single sermon by her.
I agree that women need a protector, but I do not think you need this story from the garden to illustrate it. It is true that God did not strike her dead instantly, but I do not think this proves that if Adam had not also taken a bite that she would not have been punished. It seems like you are reading more into the story than what is there.
Why is that? Why would you not be a member of a church with a woman pastor?
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The shorter answer is because there were not any, and now there are no apostles.
God chooses who he chooses.
You're just taking it to silly illogical extremes. Most men don't get to speak in churches either; does that mean they should all stop going unless they can be appointed as elders? Few are to be teachers and elders, and none of them women. That's just the way it is Biblically, whether you like it or not. The Bible is not an equaltarian document.
Wishful thinking, the requirements for elders and deacons specifically exclude women.
There is absolutely a difference between family and church. Just as there is a difference between family and work roles. The role of the church in regard to the family is to teach and then support, not usurp, family. If a man or woman goes "off the deep end" such as the recent post of a man wanting his wives to have sex with other men, the church must support the truth and righteousness and not promote sin. As it was said one time, "I may not always know where the line is but I know when it is crossed." We must not turn a blind eye when the error becomes so apparent, just because we can question some "grey" area.
There are things in the Home affairs that are the domain of the home and the church should not interfere unless that "line" is crossed into abuse and the promotion of sin over righteousness. There are the affairs of the church that are separate matters and just like the affairs of the work place fall under different administration unless abuse and the promotion of sin would require intervention by others such as family, church or even legal authorities coming into play.
There are things in the Home affairs that are the domain of the home and the church should not interfere unless that "line" is crossed into abuse and the promotion of sin over righteousness. There are the affairs of the church that are separate matters and just like the affairs of the work place fall under different administration unless abuse and the promotion of sin would require intervention by others such as family, church or even legal authorities coming into play.
If you can afford to keep your wife home, I would highly recommend it. My wife is homemaker and I have never regretted it. It is almost a lost art.
Workplace affairs are so common it is a trope of fiction. I understand it is the #1 place for affairs to be initiated.
My sisters and sister-in-laws are all forced to work due to economic reasons, and they all hate it and wish they could stay at home and raise their children.
If your wife makes more money than you, and things get difficult there is a strong temptation for her to think she no longer needs you for anything.
There are lots of reasons.
Much easier to just select the portion of the post you want to reply to and a little floating box comes up at the bottom of the selected text that says “reply”
I think it has more to do with my training, how I was raised. Even under a pastors leadership, if I think he’s leading me off a cliff or into a revenue, I’ll find another teacher. But when you find a good teacher, learn from him. I already know what I know, now, what can I learn from a good teacher.
Ahh, the benefits of being able to communicate with a full keyboard.LOL. I NEVER access the site from a phone. I am a computer guy.
*Jealous tears*
LOL. I NEVER access the site from a phone. I am a computer guy.
Same function works on the PC too. [typed using 10 fingers]
No. Not even close. What thread were you reading?
This all seems highly speculative. Did you establish this doctrine?
Not by me. I do believe that taking care of a home is a primary responsibility and privilege of wives and that it's best when they tend to home and children. Most families could survive on one income, but choose too many extravagances as the excuse for two incomes.
However, work outside the home may be necessary in some circumstances.
You are, however, conflating two separate issues. This is a topic on church governance and leadership.
The same principal
of the idea of not letting the wife be under another man's authority in the church would seem to
pply to the work place as well. There seems to be issues with the concept of a woman being under righteous authority in the church... but seemingly not an issue to be under unrighteous authority in a work place. These comments were only an attempt to show that it seems we cannot take the marriage authority to ridiculous extremes. There are issues that must be assigned to the authority of the husband. But there are other issues that as citizens of the world we all 'submit' to such as rules of conduct in public places, dress codes, even which direction we drive in a bank or drug store service lane, let alone governmental statues. The key word here is submit. We as righteous citizens of this world must decide to which things, the powers that be propose, we choose to submit. Let us never forget that even in a marriage the key word is submit. It is not interchangeable with 'forced.' That is the difference between Kingship and Dictatorship. In a kingdom, even our wives maintain their free-will and ultimately have the choice between submission to a righteous authority or not. Maintaining that righteous environment is what maintains the submission in most instances.a