Skin color, must we be dependent upon a form of evolution for the explanation?

[steve]

All my life, the only explanation that I have heard for the difference in skin tone in different people groups has been exposure to sun over time. People with lighter skin moving away from the sun zones.
This just never sat right with me.

Lately I ran across an interesting statement about this.
The idea is that when Yah changed the language into multiple languages at the Tower of Babel incident, He also gave different clans or tribes, whatever you want to call them, skin color to go along with their new language. His objective was to keep them from coming together again in one universal government and religion, so the differences would make sense. Reintegration would be less likely with people looking different in addition to different languages.

 

[FollowingHim]

The idea is that when Yah changed the language into multiple languages at the Tower of Babel incident, He also gave different clans or tribes, whatever you want to call them, skin color to go along with their new language.

Would you not expect clans to already be more likely to have the same skin colour as each other, because they're related? Originally you'd have a mixture of colours, but whenever a black man married a black woman, or a white man married a white woman, you'd end up with a family line that was black or white. By Babel, such lines would already exist. And each would get a unique language. So then, when this happened:

People with lighter skin moving away from the sun zones.

The black clans would end up at the equator and the white clans in Europe. Roughly, with many exceptions.

 

[MeganC]

Vitamin D absorption seems to be the dictator of skin color.

 

[steve]

Would you not expect clans to already be more likely to have the same skin colour as each other, because they're related?

But what would be the mechanism for the variety in the first place?

 

[steve]

Vitamin D absorption seems to be the dictator of skin color.

From what I’ve read, you have that backwards.

 

[FollowingHim]

It's how genetics work. Adam and Eve, and later Noah's family, must have carried the major genes for both black and white skin colour - and this is entirely possible. To greatly simplify it, if we assume that there is only one gene for skin colour, B, with B being black and b being white, remembering everyone has two copies of each gene, there are three options someone could have in their genes:
BB = black
Bb = mid-brown
bb = white

In this simplistic example, if you started with two mid-brown Bb parents, half their offspring would be Bb mid-brown, a quarter would be BB black, and a quarter bb white.

In reality, there are far more genes, which give us all the fine variation in skin colour that we have. But the same principle applies - it is possible to have mid-brown parents which carry the genes for all, or a pair of parents (one dark and one light) which also between them carry the genes for all (maybe Noah was dark-skinned and his wife was light-skinned).

There's no "evolution" required (ie no need for new information to arise by natural processes). All this information can be present from the start.

 

[steve]

It's how genetics work. Adam and Eve, and later Noah's family, must have carried the major genes for both black and white skin colour - and this is entirely possible. To greatly simplify it, if we assume that there is only one gene for skin colour, B, with B being black and b being white, remembering everyone has two copies of each gene, there are three options someone could have in their genes:
BB = black
Bb = mid-brown
bb = white

In this simplistic example, if you started with two mid-brown Bb parents, half their offspring would be Bb mid-brown, a quarter would be BB black, and a quarter bb white.

In reality, there are far more genes, which give us all the fine variation in skin colour that we have. But the same principle applies - it is possible to have mid-brown parents which carry the genes for all, or a pair of parents (one dark and one light) which also between them carry the genes for all (maybe Noah was dark-skinned and his wife was light-skinned).

There's no "evolution" required (ie no need for new information to arise by natural processes). All this information can be present from the start.

The separation into clans of specific color variations would have had to have taken place before the Babel incident in order to have the languages specifically different for each people group.

 

[FollowingHim]

Yes and no. It would naturally have occurred before the Babel incident to a large extent. We are all naturally attracted more to people who look like us. That's the basic instinct which, when stressed too far, becomes "racism" - but underlying it is a natural instinct. You can expect white grandkids of Noah to end up marrying each other, and black grandkids to marry each other too, not always of course but with disproportionate frequency. You'd naturally get black and white clans extremely fast, certainly prior to Babel.

But still, at Babel, there would be some variation within a clan - a clan that was more black dominant would likely contain some mid-brown and white individuals. Yet once they moved away and were separate from everyone else, inbreeding, they would ultimately become relatively homogenous. And all those members would contribute to the final, stabilised, homogenous breed - the clan with more white people might end up a lighter brown than the clan with fewer white people.

This is what we do with livestock breeding all the time. Every new breed is developed by selecting a few animals with particular traits of interest - but which are all different as they don't all have that trait to the same extent - and then inbreeding them to "stabilise" the line and remove this variability.

Just think of humans as livestock and it all makes perfect sense! God is our shepherd after all.

 

[MeganC]

From what I’ve read, you have that backwards.

No. Not really. People who live near the equator will tend to be darker and people who live away from the equator tend to be lighter.

Lighter skinned people living in northern latitudes absorb sunlight for making Vitamin D better than darker people do.

Conversely, light skinned people who move to equatorial regions suffer from too much Vitamin D and of course sunburn.

 

[Bartato]

Basically, I believe the answer is what @FolliwingHim said.

Here is a short video from Answers in Genesis that covers the same basic genetic idea. Adam and Eve were probably genetically heterozygous on skin pigmentation (and brownish), but possessed and passed on the genes to make not only brown people, but also white, and black people too.

My dad, his brother, and parents are/were all redheads. My dad married a brunette (apparently a homozygous brunette), and my brother, sister, and I all ended up with light brown hair (but also carry the gene for making more redheads). If the Lord should ever give me a redheaded second wife, we should expect roughly half the potential kids to be redheads.

Like my dad, I've always preferred brunettes but certainly also like blondes, and redheads.

 

[MemeFan]

I would that without advances in transportation we would naturally move toward having several subspecies.

 

[paterfamilias]

But what would be the mechanism for the variety in the first place?

Different ecological niches produce different sorts or animals as well as adaptations within a species.
So it is movement first be it for resources or what not and adaptation as one goes along.

 

[frederick]

But what would be the mechanism for the variety in the first place?

It is the way God built the creation. If Adam and Eve were middle brown they had the capability to produce children with the full spectrum of skin colours. There is excellent material available from various Creation ministries online that deal with this issue. Cheers

 

[MarkH]

You might want to consider why Eskimos have brown skin and Norwegians have pale skin. The latitude has nothing to do with it.

 

[FollowingHim]

We are all naturally attracted more to people who look like us. That's the basic instinct which, when stressed too far, becomes "racism" - but underlying it is a natural instinct. You can expect white grandkids of Noah to end up marrying each other, and black grandkids to marry each other too, not always of course but with disproportionate frequency. You'd naturally get black and white clans extremely fast, certainly prior to Babel.

On that note - I have sheep of three different breeds. The sheep of the same breed tend to hang out together. The whole flock mingles to a large extent, but within it there are always clumps of one breed and clumps of another.

With my rams, I bought my first ram of a new breed, then some months later bought another of the same breed, from an entirely different breeder. So they'd never met each other before. The moment I put the new ram in, the two of them immediately started hanging out together like they'd grown up together, away from the rest of the rams. They just knew they were the same, and were instant friends.

Sheep are racist. Seriously though, this attraction between those who are similar is very natural. "Birds of a feather flock together".

 

[steve]

There's no "evolution" required (ie no need for new information to arise by natural processes). All this information can be present from the start.

Can be, but we can’t prove that they were or weren’t.
You have to assume that they were in order for any other scenario to work.

 

[steve]

No. Not really. People who live near the equator will tend to be darker and people who live away from the equator tend to be lighter.

Lighter skinned people living in northern latitudes absorb sunlight for making Vitamin D better than darker people do.

Conversely, light skinned people who move to equatorial regions suffer from too much Vitamin D and of course sunburn.

With this post you have proven that skin tone makes the difference in vitamin D, which is true.

 

[Shadowjak's Dancer]

I never studied genetics, but I've always wondered at Christian art assumptions. The ark: adult animals going up the ramp... like why? Baby animals require less food and space.

Adam and Eve being the same color. Like why? It always seems assumed, but I don't know why it should be.

 

[The Revolting Man]

I’m convinced that our genes respond much more rapidly to our environment than science wants us to believe.

 

[Bartato]

I’m convinced that our genes respond much more rapidly to our environment than science wants us to believe.

Shifts of population genetics can and often do happen very quickly.

This can be seen historically with the example of the light and dark colored moths in England. When conditions favored the dark ones (industrial era with lots of soot on walls from coal) the population shifted quickly to the dark color. Later on when conditions favored the lighter colored moths, the population quickly shifted back. That's not "evolution". The genes for both light and dark moths were present in the population the whole time. Only the frequency and expression of the genes changed.

We see the same thing with pesticide resistance in insects and weeds. The genes for resistance almost certainly exist in the population, and we apply selective pressure when we use the pesticide. The few insects that survive have that gene. A couple generations later, most of the insects now have that gene.

I realize you are talking about something else, like the individual genes actually changing. You might be right, but I do know for a fact that population genetics often do change quickly.