Why did you come up with this idea @The Revolting Man? It seems a very random fantasy story - but I might be missing something. Is there a reason for you to think this, or is it just that you have a fertile imagination?
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Skin color, must we be dependent upon a form of evolution for the explanation?
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I literally said that multiple times.
It fits some fact patterns. God speaks directly to the men in Job, there is already established cultures soon after the Fall, there are some hard things in the archeological record that an extended stay in the Garden would resolve.
Like I said, it’s interesting brain candy.
Would certainly agree that they can respond faster than they clearly do in some instances. Not necessarily that there is a given pace.
In a series of sci-fi fantasy series I read in college, there are three friends and coworkers who invent time travel. One decides to be hyper rich, one to create this perfect utopian culture and the third to create a time corps. This time corps was a historical documentation project wherein they intended to document the history of prehumans all the way through all even slightly pivotal events and people's lives through all history.
Till that sort of fantasy scenario comes around, I don't think we will get the answers we want. Certainly we will be getting more as genetic mapping continues to get better and with the application of AI to the issue.
I suspect that the genetic mapping and use of AI will be utilized more as a control mechanism than for historical purposes though.
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In my observation red haired men are always angry and red haired women are always crazy.
Sometimes it's not always obvious but that seems to be a rule.
I can somewhat confirm having spent a goodly amount of time in Ireland and my first long term relationship being with a tiny elfin redheaded lunatic girl who's eyes would glow red and her head spin in circles at the barest perceived slight...things like a light breeze for example
My red haired dad, grandpa, and uncle are/were very calm, patient, and gentle men. They are/were (grandpa and uncle now deceased) very also devout Christian men.
They are also of English rather than Irish background .
My redheaded grandma was definitely more lively, but not quite crazy. I think that was the result of the Holy Spirit working in her. Apart from Christ (and Grandpa's calm strong steady arm) I'm sure she could have been crazy.
Thanks @The Revolting Man, helpful explanation.
After Job's children have all been killed. Death of humans. So this cannot occur prior to the fall, which at a bare minimum brought human death into the world. So this is simply an example of God speaking to people as He has done to many prophets throughout the history of the world, not related to God walking with people in the garden.
What do you mean by "soon", and "established cultures"? I think this is conjecture. It is not based on much textual evidence. Obviously scripture talks about Cain starting a city - but it's saying he started the city, not that he moved to one that already exists. I'm not sure what leads you to think there were cultures so soon as to be a problem for a literal interpretation.
I can understand that point. I expect that whatever you're thinking of has an explanation that fits with the literal account, but discussing that properly would take a lot of words. Could be a topic for a new thread if anyone wanted to go into it in more detail.
Certainly!
Individual sin and death could have entered, just not universal sin and death, by the way, the Epic of Gilgamesh would also fit nicely with this.
Of course, but so is the idea that Cain and Abel were the first children. That’s an assumption not based on textual evidence.
I believe in the literal account. Nothing I’ve said contradicts the literal account.
We know for a fact that Adam and Eve did not live thousands of years in the garden without falling because Genesis 5:5 tells us exactly how long Adam lived in total.
"So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.' NASB77
It doesn't prove my "less than a month" view, but it absolutely cannot be thousands of years.
"So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.' NASB77
It doesn't prove my "less than a month" view, but it absolutely cannot be thousands of years.
Based on the text, we also know that it is extremely unlikely that Adam and Eve had other children prior to Cain.
"Now the man had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said, “I have gotten a manchild with the help of the LORD.” (Gen. 4:1 NASB77)
That language really makes it sound like this is the first child (especially a male child) that has ever been born.
1. The process of procreation is explained as the man had relations with his wife.
2. Eve is amazed at the process.
Had they had earlier children the text would likely say something like "Eve conceived again and gave birth to Cain".
The clear and strait forward interpretation makes the most sense.
"Now the man had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said, “I have gotten a manchild with the help of the LORD.” (Gen. 4:1 NASB77)
That language really makes it sound like this is the first child (especially a male child) that has ever been born.
1. The process of procreation is explained as the man had relations with his wife.
2. Eve is amazed at the process.
Had they had earlier children the text would likely say something like "Eve conceived again and gave birth to Cain".
The clear and strait forward interpretation makes the most sense.
Which means that sin and death did not enter by Adam as we are told, but rather entered multiple times by every individual person who sinned prior to Adam. And what about theoretical children who had not sinned and left the garden yet at the time of the fall? They were not "in the loins of" Adam when he sinned, so this raises ethical questions about the relevance of his sin to them. It all just overcomplicates the simple message of salvation - that by one man death entered the world, and by one man death is taken away.
Unless it’s counting the years he was mortal……
And what in the text would indicate it is counting only those years?
I have repeatedly said that there is no direct textual evidence for or against this idea. It is simply one possible explanation for why there were people for Cain to fear and why there are such things as megafauna in the archeological record.
There is no direct textual evidence for, but quite a bit against this idea.
Pre-flood, CO2 levels would have probably been substantially higher. This is because if all the pre-flood vegetation was buried (becoming coal etc), and the world needed to grow a whole new vegetation cover, all the carbon in that new vegetation had to come out of the atmosphere. This would deplete the atmosphere and result in a substantially depressed CO2 content - and as a result slower plant growth and conditions generally less favourable to life. Which means of course that the more coal we burn, the more we restore the original atmosphere, so if we want to restore the world to the lushness of Eden we need to burn as much coal as possible, but I digress...
My point is that in a much better ecosystem everything can be expected to grow better, which helps to explain megafauna as well.
What was different after the fall?
What changes happened that would have curtailed megafauna?
There is book Our Fossil Future.Pre-flood, CO2 levels would have probably been substantially higher. This is because if all the pre-flood vegetation was buried (becoming coal etc), and the world needed to grow a whole new vegetation cover, all the carbon in that new vegetation had to come out of the atmosphere. This would deplete the atmosphere and result in a substantially depressed CO2 content - and as a result slower plant growth and conditions generally less favourable to life. Which means of course that the more coal we burn, the more we restore the original atmosphere, so if we want to restore the world to the lushness of Eden we need to burn as much coal as possible, but I digress...
I agree we need to burn more fossils. More CO2 = bigger plants = bigger animals. Look at dinos, they weren't suffering from too much CO2. Being it on, CO2 party.