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Thoughts on Polygamist Pastors?

rtidwell

Member
Male
Hello Friends! I know this has been discussed elsewhere but wanted to receive input from the currently active group here on the proper translation of 1 Timothy 3:2. Do you believe Pastors/Priests/Elders are to be "husband of one wife" or "husband of first wife" and why? Looking forward to your thoughts!

GREEK:

"δεῖ οὖν τὸν ἐπίσκοπον ἀνεπίλημπτον εἶναι, μιᾶς γυναικὸς ἄνδρα, νηφάλιον, σώφρονα, κόσμιον, φιλόξενον, διδακτικόν,"
ENGLISH NASB:

"An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,"​

Key word for discussion is "μιᾶς" or "mia(s)"

MIA:

Strongs Concordance 3391 "mia" is defined as "first, one, other." (https://biblehub.com/greek/3391.htm)

“Mia” can also be translated as first, just as it is in Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:1-2, and Acts 20:7. Furthermore, in 1 Timothy 5:9, a widow's "one man" is not “mia” but the Greek word "heis", meaning the numeral-one, and not meaning the adjective of "first". This indicates “heis” could have been used in 1 Tim 3:2 to indicate the numeral-one but was not. Why?

Translating this passage from the modern Gentile/Roman cultural mindset we arrive at "husband of one wife." However, "husband of first wife" is a viable option as well.

So how do we choose?

PREMISE 1:

The Lord repeatedly calls for us to be faithful to our first wife along with any more wives one might marry (e.g. Exo 21:10, Mal 2:14-16, Matt 19:9, 1 Cor 7:11).

In this regard, "husband of first wife" makes sense. An Overseer in the Church should not be someone divorcing (instead of reconciling) and remarrying; this is Hypergamy. Hypergamy is culturally accepted today but not Biblically acceptable. An Overseer simply being married is not the key to being qualified as an Elder here; it's that he has maintained a healthy marriage, and more specifically, his first marriage. His marriage to his first wife reveals that he is capable of being faithful to the family of believers he oversees.

The only exception I see here is an Overseer having divorced an adulterous woman (see Matt 19:9). Thoughts?

PREMISE 2:

The second reason “husband of first wife” makes more sense is that multiple Overseers/Elders of Israel in the Old Covenant had more than one wife. The 12 Tribes of Israel were birthed from Jacob and his 4 wives. The Tribe of Levi became the tribe of priests hence the term “Levitical Priesthood.” Elkanah was a descendant of Levi, therefore a priest, and had two wives Hannah and Peninnah. Hannah gave birth to the prophet Samuel.

"And he had two wives; the name of the one was Hannah, and the name of the other Peninnah" 1 Samuel 1:2​

Overall, my question is this: if it wasn’t sinful or a disqualifier for a priest to have multiple wives under the Old Covenant, how did it transform to be a disqualifier in the New Covenant? What evidence supports this conclusion other than 1 Tim 3:2?

CONCLUSION:

Based on the “husband of first wife” evidence presented, it appears that there is no disqualifier for Priests/Overseers to have more than one wife under the New Covenant. However I am open to hearing thoughtful challenges to this conclusion. Thank you, Brethren!
 
I always thought Pastors were only supposed to have one wife but I have never really looked into the verse and the words translated. I could swing either way. The biggest reason I could be on board is the Levitic Priest having more than one wife. If God does anything he does it in pattern so if it worked then....
 
Meat category. Sheilds up.

Love it!! lol!

Is your question "so would you want to be a pastor/priest/elder if you could only have one wife?"
 
Yeah... Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Gideon and David are listed in Hebrews 11 as men 'approved by God' but not qualified to lead a small fellowship or church? Riiiight....

The traditional translation of 'mia' as 'one' in 1 Tim. 3:2 is flat wrong.

Most definitely either 'first' (most logical) or 'a' (as in, 'a married man').
 
However I am open to hearing thoughtful challenges to this conclusion.

Here is some food for thought: Paul argues strenuously that although he does not partake in it, a minister of the gospel (and specifically an Elder) has a God-given right to expect material support from the Church. There are some represented in this forum who take the words "be fruitful and multiply" very seriously indeed. This could partly be a limiter keeping the church in a given city from having to support an elder who is functionally a tribe's worth of mouths.

I also believe that women take up a lot of a man's time, and that the job of an elder as portrayed in scripture (as opposed to common practice) is a very busy one. Remember that in Jerusalem they didn't have time to worry about which widows were getting what because their primary job of preaching left no room for it.

I also believe that the limiting factor is there to keep elders from schlooping up all the hotties leaving the young men with slim pickins. There's sort of a feedback-loop that I foresee. Women are attracted to power and money. An elder has authority and God gives him the right to eat based on his ministry.

I also believe that just like an Elder shouldn't be "greedy for money" he shouldn't be "greedy for wimmins". If he feels impoverished with only one wife.... maybe his focus is a little skewed?

It's not a question for me, if I can only have one wife I don't want the job.

And I mean this with all due respect, because I really do respect you: But that's kinda the attitude I wouldn't want in an Elder in the first place. I may be guilty of expecting too much, but I think an Elder should only be an Elder if feeding the flock is worth any sacrifice to him. "Woe to the shepherds that feed themselves" and all that.

If I can be mystical and wacky for a moment: The priests in the prophesied temple in Ezekiel were not allowed to have long hair nor be shaven, but were to be trimmed at all times. Not too much, nor nothing at all, but just a little. Not starving nor fat, but lean guard dogs.
 
This has been much discussed, but there isn't any textual reason to favor one translation or another (at least not an open and shut case), that I have seen. So whether an elder has 1 or many, what is important is that he has a proven track record: married (and kept her around), good children, good reputation, etc. In other words, can we see in his family and life that he is skilled at being a spiritual leader.

Usually though, this verse only comes up because they want to use it to disprove polygamy for the laity. But there is no requirement that a Christian be married; this passage is not a list of required Christian behavior but rather prerequisites for choosing an elder. So it has no application to the laity.
 
Usually though, this verse only comes up because they want to use it to disprove polygamy for the laity. But there is no requirement that a Christian be married; this passage is not a list of required Christian behavior but rather prerequisites for choosing an elder. So it has no application to the laity.

This is a good response when that verse is misused against a polygynist :) I shall use it!
 
Since I don’t recognize the current use of pastor as an office, it doesn’t matter much to me.


Amendment: I see that you also include elders.
We have a very small fellowship in which I am the resident elder apparent. I have more than one wife and am divorced from the wife of my youth.
If that doesn’t fit someone’s theology, they can go to a fellowship that does. Not my problem.
I have no need to judge the leadership of any other fellowship/church.
 
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This could partly be a limiter keeping the church in a given city from having to support an elder who is functionally a tribe's worth of mouths.
This only has bearing under a corporate structure utilizing the doctrine of Baalim for lord support.

@rtidwell this was my response on another site.
R Lee Tyler After going thru most of your position I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out several fallacies that are based upon a Romanish perspective.

Husbands and bishops both are to be a visible example of Christ on earth.

To put it simply. 1Cor 12:12 states and all the members of that one body, being poly, are one body: so also is Christ

1 Peter 2:25 states that Christ is the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

So Christ is the perfect example of a prototype Bishop who is indubitably polygynous

The second fallacy is understanding the word Mia. According to Matthew 19:5, Jesus identifies the woman that a man leaves his father and mother for as the mia wife. This is known in the Old Testament as the wife of beginnings or the wife of his youth.

I’m surprised that you didn’t quote Tertullians On Monogamy circa 200 ish AD where he excoriates second marriage for anyone and then admits that this is a new revelation in his time. And that the Bishop of bishops was granting licenses of multinuptialism (poly gameo)

Your monogamy only perspective is based on a historic Roman Catholic bias. (End quote)



Anywho, it is true that the word Mia can be used as “one”, but only as the first one in a sequence. . . . Ever.
 
This only has bearing under a corporate structure utilizing the doctrine of Baalim for lord support.

I don't know what you mean by that, I was drawing my example straight out of Paul's instructions for the early church for elder support.

Anywho, it is true that the word Mia can be used as “one”, but only as the first one in a sequence. . . . Ever.

I don't think the 'mia' baptism in Ephesians 4 can be understood as the first in a sequence at all.
 
I don't know what you mean by that, I was drawing my example straight out of Paul's instructions for the early church for elder support.



I don't think the 'mia' baptism in Ephesians 4 can be understood as the first in a sequence at all.

The idea of a one time only baptism is not scriptural it’s a man made tradition.
 
@Pacman I both hear you and have no opinion of my own about that.

But woe is me to see what I have seen. See what I see!

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3391&t=KJV

If I try to make mia ONLY about being the first in a sequence, to exclude the mere numerical 'one' : then scripture gets a wibbly wobbly

I'll come right out and say that my time on this thread is winding down to a close, because as @Cap well knows, I've spent a lot of time in the past on this one concept. If a man can look at all the mias in scripture and tell me with a straight face that it only means 'first in a sequence' every time all I can say is "Well heck I guess it's not a salvation issue"

Especially because for me it's very academic. The chances of me willingly putting myself under another man's spiritual authority are minute enough to be non-existent, no matter how many wives he has.
 
@Pacman I both hear you and have no opinion of my own about that.

But woe is me to see what I have seen. See what I see!

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3391&t=KJV

If I try to make mia ONLY about being the first in a sequence, to exclude the mere numerical 'one' : then scripture gets a wibbly wobbly

I'll come right out and say that my time on this thread is winding down to a close, because as @Cap well knows, I've spent a lot of time in the past on this one concept. If a man can look at all the mias in scripture and tell me with a straight face that it only means 'first in a sequence' every time all I can say is "Well heck I guess it's not a salvation issue"

Especially because for me it's very academic. The chances of me willingly putting myself under another man's spiritual authority are minute enough to be non-existent, no matter how many wives he has.

Ah understood I missed your point before. But the fact remains mia can mean one or first or simply a. Commonly when used in the number 1 form it is a minimum standard and not a maximum. Also there is a different word for one used by Paul in the context of marriage which does definitely mean a maximum. Seems strange to use a different word in these two passages if he actually meant it to be a maximum standard.

1 Timothy 5:9 KJV
[9] Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man,

Transliterated Word
heis
Phonetic Spelling
hice

Thayer's Definition
  1. one
 
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