Younger generation

[Nikud]

I saw a documentary once about a town in South Carolina entirely populated by a Gypsy culture in which the daughters are all pledged to marry someone when they're toddlers. They're pledged to someone else's son who's a little bit older. Then, when they come of age, they get married, and they're not sexually active until marriage. That is probably an advantage in cultures where marriages are arranged by parents, because one grows up knowing who they're going to be sexually active with, they know they have something to look forward to, and thus aren't tempted to just take someone up on a cheap opportunity out of fear that it may be their last chance ever. Patience is so rarely an adolescent virtue.

So maybe you could drive to that town in South Carolina.

Theres 2 "Gypsy" towns in South Carolina that I know of. One Irish traveler and one Romnichail.

Bad idea my cousins would harm him for trying to steal someone's bride. If A Romani girl is betrothed in an arranged marriage she is not to be approached. Just approaching a betrothed woman would cause him and his family to be in blood with both her family and her intended groom's family. Being an outsider even approaching an available Romani woman would cause him trouble and her to possibly to get a reputation as a dirty girl. The Irish Travlers arent much different. I know you were joking but I'm not sure he caught that and I wouldn't want any one getting the idea that it is a good idea.

 

[Delta]

everyone has things they want in a signifiant other. That does not take away from the fact Gods plan will happen no matter what I think. BUT if I feel God leading me a direction I wont ignore him

So why not focus on her character rather than who has been in her pants!? So then, I guess my questions what else is on your list? How are you differentiating what YOU want in (or don't want) in your future wife/wives vs. What God wants you to have? No one is suggesting you ignore God, but perhaps that you seem to think that a virgin is better than someone who has a past. You're focusing on this one quality and not the person she is.

 

[Keith Martin]

Theres 2 "Gypsy" towns in South Carolina that I know of. One Irish traveler and one Romnichail.

Bad idea my cousins would harm him for trying to steal someone's bride. If A Romani girl is betrothed in an arranged marriage she is not to be approached. Just approaching a betrothed woman would cause him and his family to be in blood with both her family and her intended groom's family. Being an outsider even approaching an available Romani woman would cause him trouble and her to possibly to get a reputation as a dirty girl. The Irish Travlers arent much different. I know you were joking but I'm not sure he caught that and I wouldn't want any one getting the idea that it is a good idea.

First of all, @Kevin, you and I might be related, because I'm descended from Eastern European Jewish Gypsies who were ostracized by both Jews and Gypsies for practicing an off-shoot hybrid of Romani (itself a hybrid of Catholicism and Indian religions) and Judaism. Long story.

Second, though, you are kidding me, though, right, that James or someone else might have thought I was suggesting that heading to that town would be a good idea? Keep in mind that anyone who wanted to snag one of those girls would have to pretend to be 4 years old! Any adult male who would be foolish enough for that would deserve to be featured on the Darwin Awards.

You and I will have to put our heads together about this sometime when we're together in person.

 

[Nikud]

First of all, @Kevin
Second, though, you are kidding me, though, right, that James or someone else might have thought I was suggesting that heading to that town would be a good idea? Keep in mind that anyone who wanted to snag one of those girls would have to pretend to be 4 years old! Any adult male who would be foolish enough for that would deserve to be featured on the Darwin Awards.

You and I will have to put our heads together about this sometime when we're together in person.

Most are between 16 and 19 in that community when they actually marry some 14, 15 but not very common there. Also not all the families practice arranged. I wasn't speaking of anyone child snatching but someone going into the community trying to steal away, convince an of age betrothed woman to marry them. I used the word woman, not girl, so I thought it would be clear whom I was speaking of. Like I said I knew you were joking but some people don't really get humor or dont seem to comprehend what others are saying.

First of all, @Kevin, you and I might be related, because I'm descended from Eastern European Jewish Gypsies who were ostracized by both Jews and Gypsies for practicing an off-shoot hybrid of Romani (itself a hybrid of Catholicism and Indian religions) and Judaism. Long story.

If your of Romani heritage then we're realated some how.
Are you of the Lovari, Bashalde, or Sinti? There the only ones I know who practiced an Eastern Orthodox Catholic/Sikh/Judasim blend. Also there were The Abrahamites who were nonromani Jewish "Gypsies" who practiced a an Eastern Orthodox Catholic/Sikh/Judasim blend aswell but traveled with us and eventually married into the Lovari. The Roma also kept a Gospel/Sikh blend some still do but most I know are Baptist now.

I'm of the Rusjara we kept Rromaninai: Torah/Gospel (given by Thomas)/Romani Traditional interpretation until many became Anabaptist who keeping an altered form of Rromaninai incorporating all the Gospels and the other books of the Tanahk.

Pm me

 

[Keith Martin]

Most are between 16 and 19 in that community when they actually marry some 14, 15 but not very common there. Also not all the families practice arranged. I wasn't speaking of anyone child snatching but someone going into the community trying to steal away, convince an of age betrothed woman to marry them. I used the word woman, not girl, so I thought it would be clear whom I was speaking of. Like I said I knew you were joking but some people don't really get humor or dont seem to comprehend what others are saying.

I do know what you're saying here, but (a) those who don't get humor are prone to misinterpreting things even when every effort is made to avoid being funny, and (b) my focus was on the betrothal being the way to acquire definite virgins -- and that, in the documentary, almost all the betrothals were conducted between pre-schoolers. As far as horning in on betrothed/engaged females goes, I don't think that's a good idea in any culture.

And I still think the image of a 30-year-old man showing up in a town looking for virgins to marry where the only available potential brides are 3 years old or less is seriously funny.

 

[Keith Martin]

If your of Romani heritage then we're realated some how.
Are you of the Lovari, Bashalde, or Sinti? There the only ones I know who practiced an Eastern Orthodox Catholic/Sikh/Judasim blend. Also there were The Abrahamites who were nonromani Jewish "Gypsies" who practiced a an Eastern Orthodox Catholic/Sikh/Judasim blend aswell but traveled with us and eventually married into the Lovari. The Roma also kept a Gospel/Sikh blend some still do but most I know are Baptist now.

I'm of the Rusjara we kept Rromaninai: Torah/Gospel (given by Thomas)/Romani Traditional interpretation until many became Anabaptist who keeping an altered form of Rromaninai incorporating all the Gospels and the other books of the Tanahk.

Pm me

I will, eventually. You know way more than I do, and that can be explained by the fact that my family's heritage is a huge family secret that I feel privileged to have learned about, but most of my relatives deny it and get angry when it's brought up. Which I think is silly.

And now I return everyone to our regularly-scheduled programming here in the Younger Generation thread. Back to talking about how young folks are going to hell in a handbasket . . .

But haven't old geezers been claiming that that's the case for as long as anyone can remember?

 

[frederick]

But haven't old geezers been claiming that that's the case for as long as anyone can remember?

I'm old. I can't remember.

 

[James A]

So why not focus on her character rather than who has been in her pants!? So then, I guess my questions what else is on your list? How are you differentiating what YOU want in (or don't want) in your future wife/wives vs. What God wants you to have? No one is suggesting you ignore God, but perhaps that you seem to think that a virgin is better than someone who has a past. You're focusing on this one quality and not the person she is.

I am a virgin I have a Godly conviction to have the same from my wives. The rest of my list is a Godly lady enjoys running reading the Bible wants to be a minister or used by God to reach the lost that being said I went to college to be a missionary telling people about Jesus is very important to me. She does not have to have a tv likes traveling enjoys cooking and has all the traits of a Proverbs 31 lady. I know of one person who meets all my list already.

 

[James A]

If God changes one or 2 things in the future on my list I will listen to God

 

[eye4them]

Jesus said "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." (Mark 10:9)
When does this joining take place? It's a critical question to answer, so a man doesn't find himself thinking a certain woman is his wife, when actually she has already been joined to another man by God. Pending an answer; an unbetrothed virgin is safe in this regard, a non-vingin is a question... and a risk.

Here are some immediately visible reasons why a man might want to be cautious concerning a woman who has a "history"...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/facebook-affair-left-husband-teenage-1761890
As his photo popped up and she recognised Simon, the man with who she’d once been head over heels in love, she felt a surge of excitement. It was an act that would lead to Sharon having an affair, which would ultimately signal the end of her eight-year marriage. She says: “I am sorry for hurting anyone along the way but I had to be true to my heart, even if that meant being dishonest to my husband.

You want your wife clinging to *you* like this, not your ¿wife? to a former lover.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/jan/17/cant-get-first-love-out-of-my-head
"I'm married with two children"
"I have never been able to keep my first love out of my mind."
"I feel like something important isn't in my life."

You don't want your ¿wife? thinking about a former lover, and feeling things like that about another man.

With all that in mind...
https://ifstudies.org/blog/counteri...-between-premarital-sex-and-marital-stability

 

[Delta]

Jesus said "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." (Mark 10:9)
When does this joining take place? It's a critical question to answer, so a man doesn't find himself thinking a certain woman is his wife, when actually she has already been joined to another man by God. Pending an answer; an unbetrothed virgin is safe in this regard, a non-vingin is a question... and a risk.

Here are some immediately visible reasons why a man might want to be cautious concerning a woman who has a "history"...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/facebook-affair-left-husband-teenage-1761890
As his photo popped up and she recognised Simon, the man with who she’d once been head over heels in love, she felt a surge of excitement. It was an act that would lead to Sharon having an affair, which would ultimately signal the end of her eight-year marriage. She says: “I am sorry for hurting anyone along the way but I had to be true to my heart, even if that meant being dishonest to my husband.

You want your wife clinging to *you* like this, not your ¿wife? to a former lover.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/jan/17/cant-get-first-love-out-of-my-head
"I'm married with two children"
"I have never been able to keep my first love out of my mind."
"I feel like something important isn't in my life."

You don't want your ¿wife? thinking about a former lover, and feeling things like that about another man.

With all that in mind...
https://ifstudies.org/blog/counteri...-between-premarital-sex-and-marital-stability

Well. Thank you for calling me a risk. Because I was not a virgin when I was married.

I'm not saying that divorce doesn't happen. And If you would consider the graph in the article you posted, the general trend seems to be about the same, they follow a similar curve. I think the difference may be that people who are convicted to remain virgins are more likely to be religious, and it is that religion that also convicts them to stay with their spouse. Marriage isn't taken seriously today. It's treated as disposable. I'd be curious to know about the people in those stories, what their faith is like, because I feel like that would be a very significant factor.

But I can assure you, it is my husband on my mind, in fact I don't even want to entertain the thought of being with anyone else. Not on any level, let alone physically. I do however, have a 'love that got away' type feeling but it wasn't for someone who I slept with, it was someone I met once and never seen again.

To be a little more detailed, with my personal life and experience, the first person I slept with, yes, I thought I loved at the time but in hindsight, I am happy he is not my husband, he is not the type of man I want raising my kids. We were young and I wasn't even a christian at the time. And yes, I've seen him since, while my husband and I were dating. My reaction was that I prefer my (now) husband and that I was thankful not to be with that man. The second man, I was infatuated with, but I now recognize what that was. I'm fairly certain I wasn't his only 'interest' at the time and he hurt me badly and was why the next man I slept with was my husband.

I did eventually learn a lesson, I did stop dating who I wanted and actually pursued a man who would be okay with me not sleeping with him. And one of most beneficial parts of telling men no, is that it weeds out the ones who 'just there for one thing'

We don't know for sure when this joining happens you've said so yourself. But I did stand in a church, before God, and our families and commit myself to my husband, to love, to respect, to honor, to take care of, to be joined until one of us is passed.

 

[Joleneakamama]

Well. Thank you for calling me a risk. Because I was not a virgin when I was married.

I'm not saying that divorce doesn't happen. And If you would consider the graph in the article you posted, the general trend seems to be about the same, they follow a similar curve. I think the difference may be that people who are convicted to remain virgins are more likely to be religious, and it is that religion that also convicts them to stay with their spouse. Marriage isn't taken seriously today. It's treated as disposable. I'd be curious to know about the people in those stories, what their faith is like, because I feel like that would be a very significant factor.

But I can assure you, it is my husband on my mind, in fact I don't even want to entertain the thought of being with anyone else. Not on any level, let alone physically. I do however, have a 'love that got away' type feeling but it wasn't for someone who I slept with, it was someone I met once and never seen again.

To be a little more detailed, with my personal life and experience, the first person I slept with, yes, I thought I loved at the time but in hindsight, I am happy he is not my husband, he is not the type of man I want raising my kids. We were young and I wasn't even a christian at the time. And yes, I've seen him since, while my husband and I were dating. My reaction was that I prefer my (now) husband and that I was thankful not to be with that man. The second man, I was infatuated with, but I now recognize what that was. I'm fairly certain I wasn't his only 'interest' at the time and he hurt me badly and was why the next man I slept with was my husband.

I did eventually learn a lesson, I did stop dating who I wanted and actually pursued a man who would be okay with me not sleeping with him. And one of most beneficial parts of telling men no, is that it weeds out the ones who 'just there for one thing'

We don't know for sure when this joining happens you've said so yourself. But I did stand in a church, before God, and our families and commit myself to my husband, to love, to respect, to honor, to take care of, to be joined until one of us is passed.

Thank you Delta, you made many good points and I particularly appreciate you questioning the statistical evidence that does not consider faith!
I believe when you bring God into any situation you can throw the statistics OUT!
I think based on logic and observation that it is more important what someone learned from their experience then what experiences they have had.
I have a cousin who's first kiss was at the altar. Later though her hubby got them involved in swinging and succeeded in undermining her Christian foundation by teaching that God is all love, will never punish anyone and life is just an experience. She left her hubby when he decided swinging wasn't fun anymore to pursue other men and even bdsm relationships.
Another gal I know had a hubby who got them into swinging and she hated it and left him because of it.
I think the girl who knows from experience she wants a committed relationship with one man is a better bet then a virgin who doesn't know what she wants, and may be enticed into experimenting or leaving.
In the case of a man wanting polygyny a virgin is more likely to listen to her dad, and that may translate to respecting her husband after marriage, but it may get the would be polygynist dumped too if she decides her southern Baptist dad is never going to approve of her choice to marry a married man.
Faith should be the main consideration. You could pursue a relationship with someone who is not a believer, but it is best not to commit or be intimate until they are. (Evangelize a partner can work)

 

[Delta]

Thank you Delta, you made many good points and I particularly appreciate you questioning the statistical evidence that does not consider faith!
I believe when you bring God into any situation you can throw the statistics OUT!
I think based on logic and observation that it is more important what someone learned from their experience then what experiences they have had.
I have a cousin who's first kiss was at the altar. Later though her hubby got them involved in swinging and succeeded in undermining her Christian foundation by teaching that God is all love, will never punish anyone and life is just an experience. She left her hubby when he decided swinging wasn't fun anymore to pursue other men and even bdsm relationships.
Another gal I know had a hubby who got them into swinging and she hated it and left him because of it.
I think the girl who knows from experience she wants a committed relationship with one man is a better bet then a virgin who doesn't know what she wants, and may be enticed into experimenting or leaving.
In the case of a man wanting polygyny a virgin is more likely to listen to her dad, and that may translate to respecting her husband after marriage, but it may get the would be polygynist dumped too if she decides her southern Baptist dad is never going to approve of her choice to marry a married man.
Faith should be the main consideration. You could pursue a relationship with someone who is not a believer, but it is best not to commit or be intimate until they are. (Evangelize a partner can work)

I feel like you've summed up what I was trying to say. I don't know anyone like the people you were talking about, so I can only share what I've experienced.

 

[rockfox]

I view anything that has a intimate intent as wrong/unpure action before marraige

Theologically speaking, you'll have a hard time justifying that from scripture.

Practically speaking, unless you attract interest from a woman whose father enforces a kissing/contact courtship, virtually all women will interpret such lack of intimacy as a lack of genuine attraction/affection on your part; regardless of what you say.

 

[James A]

Theologically speaking, you'll have a hard time justifying that from scripture.

Practically speaking, unless you attract interest from a woman whose father enforces a kissing/contact courtship, virtually all women will interpret such lack of intimacy as a lack of genuine attraction/affection on your part; regardless of what you say.

I am trying and praying about the kissing part and at this point I feel lead that it is the right thing to do. I will only change it if I directly feel God leading me to

 

[James A]

I know one ladie that I have been interested in and feel God telling me to get to know. He has been telling me this for the longest time

 

[Joleneakamama]

I feel like you've summed up what I was trying to say. I don't know anyone like the people you were talking about, so I can only share what I've experienced.

I can only share my experience too, and I had/have no "relationship" experience outside of marriage.
I do see some valid points that @eye4them made. That women do bond through intimacy/sex is certain, and it may be hard to know how truly available a woman is emotionally or even biblically for a new relationship.
One advantage to not having past relationships is there is no looking back at something better then you have. A friend once told me she thought that was an issue for both her and her husband. They both had experienced better "chemistry" with previous partners. For me those kind of memories are unenviable, and I'm glad I don't have 'em! We each live our own lives though, and it certainly doesn't mean I think I'm better than anyone if I say I'm glad I've lived mine. One of my sisters didn't want to marry the first guy that came along (her perception of what her two older sisters had done) and she didn't. She dated for 8 and a half years before tieing the knot. I liked some of her boyfriends maybe even more then I like her hubby.....I'm pretty danged sure she likes the hubby better, and has no regrets, but her wish was not mine....my ideal was not hers. Was she a virgin when she married? I'd bet on it. Did she get emotionally involved with the guys she dated, ABSOLUTELY! I remember her crying a lot after breaking up with a guy she had been dating about 10 months. Did she hold hands and make out with them? For sure. Is she committed to her hubby? Yes, no doubt about that.
It's good to consider things as a young single adult relating to dating, relationships and ideal standards, but then we need to live the life we have, and interact with others in the very real world. Aim high, but keep your feet on the ground too.

 

[FollowingHim]

@eye4them and @Delta are both right.

Virginity is a very good thing. There are many sound reasons why you should maintain your virginity until marriage, and many reasons why a virgin is a desirable wife also. I won't write a list, this is obvious. This is why we teach our children to be chaste.

However, all of us are sinners. And past sin does not disqualify a woman from marriage, nor does it mean they will not make a good wife. It does add complications that are best avoided - the obvious question of "is she truly available", and in at least some cases deeper psychological effects (for instance if a woman has been subjected to past abuse, this may affect her subconsciously in ways that impact her later marriage). But these are issues that can be worked through in love, nothing is insurmountable.

What @James A needs to recognise is that, whenever he marries, he will be marrying a sinner. Because all people are sinners.

He may be blessed by receiving a wife who has not sinned sexually, but only sinned in other areas (e.g. he might marry a thief). And this sin may affect their marriage (a susceptibility to temptation to steal might cause problems with financial management). But he will not marry a sinless, perfect woman - he will marry a real woman with the real problems and past that every single individual has. Because of the prevalence of sexual sin in our culture, there's a rather large chance that the woman God intends for him to marry might sin sexually before she reaches him and be no longer a virgin. That's just the reality of sinful people living in a sinful world.

So virginity is better - but non-virgins still deserve marriage and can be great wives.

To think about it another way: Everyone's got a weakness. If her weakness is getting into bed too quickly, vs stealing money, and she marries you and falls into this weakness WITH YOU, which would be the better weakness for a wife to have?

 

[frederick]

However, all of us are sinners. And past sin does not disqualify a woman from marriage, nor does it mean they will not make a good wife. It

And none of us should ever be so proud to think we won't sin in the future. Deal with your sin in humility and recognize that you and your wife/wives will have to overcome sin issues in your marriage relationship if you are to live happily together. Take a few moments to read 1 John 1:7-10. Shalom

 

[Keith Martin]

To think about it another way: Everyone's got a weakness. If her weakness is getting into bed too quickly, vs stealing money, and she marries you and falls into this weakness WITH YOU, which would be the better weakness for a wife to have?

Awesome logic!