• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

Stuff that is Abomination

For what it's worth, "Every moving thing that lives" does not include humans, which is made clear in Genesis 9:5-6 where murder is prohibited.
Buzzzz...foul. 10 yard pigskin penalty.

How 'bout if folks are already DEAD? They must be edible THEN, right? Same 'logic'... ;)

OK, well, humans don't chew the cud, NOR do they have a split hoof. But their DNA is real close to pigs...


PS> Joshua also says in Numbers 14:9 that the inhabitants of the land are ALSO like food for us (lechem, in this case - bread) but I don't think he was implying they should be eaten. There's a lesson in there somewhere. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
Buzzzz...foul. 10 yard pigskin penalty.

How 'bout if folks are already DEAD? They must be edible THEN, right? Same 'logic'... ;)

OK, well, humans don't chew the cud, NOR do they have a split hoof. But their DNA is real close to pigs...


PS> Joshua also says in Numbers 14:9 that the inhabitants of the land are ALSO like food for us (lechem, in this case - bread) but I don't think he was implying they should be eaten. There's a lesson in there somewhere. :rolleyes:
Keep pretending that Genesis 9 means the same thing as Leviticus 11. We all know it doesn't. 😄
 
Keep pretending that Genesis 9 means the same thing as Leviticus 11. We all know it doesn't. 😄
I can’t explain why Genesis 9 says what it says, but it is obvious to anyone with an open mind that something is out of kilter when compared to the clean animal instruction’s that were given to Noah.
You can use it as your swine-is-therefore-clean card while waltzing this earth, but it’s not going to do you much good when you are standing in front of the Judge and He asks, “But why didn’t you pay any attention to the rest of the evidence?”

No, I didn’t say that it is a salvation issue, but I wouldn’t be so sure that there are not some consequences for thumbing your nose at your Creator’s instructions.
 
I can’t explain why Genesis 9 says what it says, but it is obvious to anyone with an open mind that something is out of kilter when compared to the clean animal instruction’s that were given to Noah.
You can use it as your swine-is-therefore-clean card while waltzing this earth, but it’s not going to do you much good when you are standing in front of the Judge and He asks, “But why didn’t you pay any attention to the rest of the evidence?”

No, I didn’t say that it is a salvation issue, but I wouldn’t be so sure that there are not some consequences for thumbing your nose at your Creator’s instructions.
Thank you for your kind response Steve.

I think the rest of the evidence from Acts, Romans, Galatians, Colossians, 1st John, the Gospel of John, Revelation, etc pretty strongly indicate that those who believe on Christ and abide by the instructions from Acts 15 "will do well". Maybe eating clean is also positive.
 
Adam - Plants only
That's not what it says... This is an argument from silence... The passage does not prohibit the eating of animals.
 
That's not what it says... This is an argument from silence... The passage does not prohibit the eating of animals.
Remember it was the "garden of Eden", not the "feedlot of Eden".😉

The dietary expansion in Genesis 9:3 "...even as the green herbs" suggests that meat was not previously authorized.
 
If Adam only ate plants after the fall, what did they do with the bodies of the animals after Yah used the skins to make clothing for them?
And the subsequent bodies as they made other clothing?
 
Keep pretending to ignore the very Words of the One you claim to follow. Who are you calling out as a liar?

When you see contradiction: here's a hint. It's NOT HIM Who is at fault.
There is no contradiction between Genesis 9 and Leviticus 11. They are different instructions given to different people.
 
Thank you for your kind response Steve.

I think the rest of the evidence from Acts, Romans, Galatians, Colossians, 1st John, the Gospel of John, Revelation, etc pretty strongly indicate that those who believe on Christ and abide by the instructions from Acts 15 "will do well". Maybe eating clean is also positive.
Just bear in mind that verse 20 has v21 attached to it, and it is there for a reason.
 
There is no contradiction between Genesis 9 and Leviticus 11. They are different instructions given to different people.
There’s an argument to be made here. The absolute command of Leviticus could only be inescapably required of Israelites. That would resolve the supposed contradictions.
 
Halal is simply an excuse for barbaric treatment of animals. The video below shows the unvarnished truth about how the Muslims slaughter their sheep...and many times these sheep are from New Zealand.

WARNING: The linked video is not safe for the faint of heart or the politically correct.

Given the criticism of halal slaughter, I really should point out something I'd forgotten, but which is highly informative to this discussion: although halal slaughter of animals is routine in New Zealand, commercial kosher slaughter is forbidden, on animal welfare grounds.

The halal certification agencies have allowed animals to be stunned prior to slaughter. So halal slaughter is permitted.
The rabbinical authorities will not allow animals to be stunned first. So kosher slaughter of sheep and cattle is forbidden (poultry are allowed).
I'm not saying the government is right to restrict either. But I am pointing out that if anyone decides to point the finger at halal slaughter on animal welfare grounds, while trying to support kosher slaughter, they have some serious thinking to do! It's very easy to see the speck in our neighbours eye while ignoring the log in our own...
 
I’d suggest before you hare off on a doctrinal creation thread. First do a quick word study to see how God uses the word Abomination in scripture. Then once you have a rudimentary scriptural definition for the word, then start trying to figure out what implications that has on your life.
Sorry but isn't this a forum to discuss and debate and inform? I mean no disrespect but it just seemed funny! 🤷
 
Last edited:
Sorry but isn't this a forum dmto discuss and debate and inform? I mean no disrespect but it just seemed funny! 🤷
Absolutely! But I was addressing the propensity of certain individuals to start with the idea, define the word according to the hypothetical ideas and then work out from there. That’s not wise.

As I read through early scriptures I run across the word "Abomination". It was taught to me that it meant "sin" so therefore eating clams and ospreys and horses and dogs was sinful. I just didn't know really what this "sin" was. Upon recall the old book, "None of These Diseases" I remembered the cleanliness aspect and it starts to make sense. I always want to know the why behind the wherefore. If we can loosely substitute the word dirty or unsanitary in place of abomination it then begins to make more sense.
This is defining the word on supposition. That’s not rightly dividing the word.
So, armed with that as a background, what are the other things that are considered abomination and why? This of course is a bit of conjecture based on the rules of sanitation. GO!
Then the OP confirms the discussion is based on conjecture rather than what God’s word says on the matter. That’s backwards.

Of course discuss, but we’re here for “biblical” things. Not “conjecture” things.

A basic tenet of getting understanding is to start with knowing what the word means. I work daily to teach my sons wisdom and understanding. But before they can obtain either, they first must understand the meaning of the word I’m teaching them about. If they start by erroneously believing a hammer is called an adjustable wrench, then when we’re talking about how to take apart a gas line, they’ll be imagining using that hammer. If you start with ideas about the word without knowing what the word means, you will certainly go astray.

Proverbs 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

When we start discussions here with diverse viewpoints on torah keeping and liberty. We should be careful to not sow discord. There’s a lot of it going on lately. I’m sure I’m guilty of it as well. But it’s not difficult or time consuming to start by going to scripture to understand the meaning of the word you’re asking about.

By doing so, we can seek wisdom and get understanding.
 
Given the criticism of halal slaughter, I really should point out something I'd forgotten, but which is highly informative to this discussion: although halal slaughter of animals is routine in New Zealand, commercial kosher slaughter is forbidden, on animal welfare grounds.

The halal certification agencies have allowed animals to be stunned prior to slaughter. So halal slaughter is permitted.
The rabbinical authorities will not allow animals to be stunned first. So kosher slaughter of sheep and cattle is forbidden (poultry are allowed).
I'm not saying the government is right to restrict either. But I am pointing out that if anyone decides to point the finger at halal slaughter on animal welfare grounds, while trying to support kosher slaughter, they have some serious thinking to do! It's very easy to see the speck in our neighbours eye while ignoring the log in our own...

I was not ignoring Kosher. I was addressing Halal. Neither one is acceptable to us and when we've had halal and kosher processors approach uss in the past we've refused to sell animals to them.

I guess Kosher slaughter falls under one of those 'old laws' that I am absolutely not going to abide. It is needless cruelty.
 
It's pretty clear to me by now that those who seek to understand are getting a picture of what the two Hebrew words translated as "abomination" mean by now, even by the example of having it excused and taught.

Remember, the word 'shakatz' means not only abomination, or defiled, but has a connotation of idolatry, and it's associated with those same Not-Foods that so many seem to regard in higher esteem than His Word. For those that still have ANY question - go back an re-read Mark 7 (Matthew 23 has a similar theme) to see why He not only called those who "break His commandments and teach others to do so," hypocrites, but then said it's "what comes OUT of a man" that DEFILES him. (and this was before keyboards :rolleyes:)

Obviously, those who think He is inconsistent, not "the same, yesterday, today, and tomorrow," and can't keep His own up-front promise to not change "one yod or tiddle" of His Instruction while "heaven and earth" still exist, aren't about to let something like His Written Word separate them from their bacon.

NONE of this is addressed to the willfully blind. But I know there are others here - because you saw through the Lie about polygyny, the same way - who ARE seekers of His Truth.

And I have addressed it not to change minds that won't, but to "choose life."

Why is this important? Other than the obvious: Be He says so.

Because we have just seen the biggest releases (plural) of a multi-part bioweapon in human history. And now the biggest toxic WMD deployment in the history of North America. Both of which are destroying immune systems and mass-killing the ignorant, whether they know it yet or not.

The 'mainstream' media will NOT permit the Lie to be revealed. You don't hear ANY advice to quit taking the Zyklon-B Poison Poke that has caused the biggest statistical spike in "sudden and unexpected" death (and actuarial table carnage) in history. There's a "Mark of the Beast" to grease skids for. And NOT A MENTION in the wastestream about the REAL issue that is poisoning the Ohio River basin: DIOXIN, among the most toxic poisons known to man. Spread deliberately by those who lit off the spill.

And please don't offend the intelligence of honest students of His Word here by asking for a "study" of why they're already dead-men walking.

Some will eventually beg His healing before they pound down a pork chop.

The warning of Deuteronomy 28:60-61 is VITAL. (and those who deny Him will claim that's "Moses" anyway, so ignore it.) But don't miss verse 62.

I just finished a "weekly news wrap-up" and analysis show ("Drive Time Friday") where I talked about exactly this in the second segment. I don't expect those who don't believe Him to listen to me. But for others, I'll post the link:

 
Last edited:
Obviously, those who think He is inconsistent, not "the same, yesterday, today, and tomorrow," and can't keep His own up-front promise to not change "one yod or tiddle" of His Instruction while "heaven and earth" still exist, aren't about to let something like His Written Word separate them from their bacon.
The issue I’m seeing is you seem to think every instruction in scripture is for all peoples, for all time with no exceptions.

This is simply not true.

Shouting and stomping your feet and proclaiming “WHORE CHURCH XIANS” with spittle flying out of your lips when someone points this out is disgraceful. You aren’t representing your master very well with the arrogance and vehemence you demonstrate while denouncing those who simply disagree with what appears to be logical inconsistency. Namely not all instructions are for all people for all time. God can remain consistent in who He is and what His standards are while instructing one group of servants one way, and another group differently.

I can have two employees, each with different dress codes, and work requirements.

You seem to think all believers must adhere to all of the commands even those that don’t pertain. That’s nonsensical. And no rational person will be persuaded by you going into an apoplectic “WHORE CHURCH!!!” paroxysm.
 
The issue I’m seeing is you seem to think every instruction in scripture is for all peoples, for all time with no exceptions.

This is simply not true.
Only when He says He isn't changing it, and only for those who choose to follow Him, of - if you prefer - to be "grafted in".

As for me and my house...
 
You might wanna check it out... "Kosher slaughter" isn't actually IN the Book.

With regards to the Jews it is. Granted, it is a technicality, yet it is. They claim that the process was passed to Moses from God orally.

It is a positive commandment of the Torah that whoever wishes to eat meat must first slaughter the animal, as it is written, “Thou shalt slaughter of thy herd and of thy flock, which the Lord hath given thee, as I have commanded thee, and thou shalt eat within thy gates, after all the desire of thy soul” - Deuteronomy 12:21. (Note: Administering electric shock to an animal prior to shehitah [kosher slaughtering] is prohibited, because it incapacitates the animal and renders it a trefah [animal unfit to eat]. It is forbidden to eat the meat of such an animal. The prohibition extends, as well, to administering an anesthetic, in the form of a drug and the like, since it may endanger the health and life of the animal and render it trefah prior to shehitah.)

This commandment applies equally to cattle, to animals, and to fowl. A limb torn or cut from a living animal is forbidden. An animal that is not slaughtered, but dies of itself, is prohibited. The laws regarding the precise method of slaughter are not stated in the Bible, but were given orally to Moses on Mount Sinai, as indicated in the verse by the statement, “as I have commanded thee,” that is, as I have already instructed you. [The function of this previous sentence is to make a link between rabbinically developed laws regarding implementation of these laws and what is traditionally understood as the revelation—of both oral and written Torah (which can be translated as both “teaching” and “law”)—at Sinai.]

Citation:

The Concise Code of Jewish Law: Compiled from Kitzur Shulhan Aruch and traditional sources, Daily Prayers And Religious Observances in the Life-Cycle of the Jew, Vol. 1 1st Edition

 
Back
Top