LOL, you forgot to mention the slaves and sharecroppers who sold themselves into indentures with student loans.
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Exodus 22:16-17: "pre-marital sex" = the beginning of marriage?
- Thread starter DiscipleOfChrist
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LOL, you forgot to mention the slaves and sharecroppers who sold themselves into indentures with student loans.
Instruction written for slaves in slave society.
But, real question is slave society Christian one? As 19th century Christians concluded, answer is negative. Did you even asked yourself why some other Christians can think slavery is evil?
Because if you did, you could figure obvious reason. Slavery doesn't exist because some people are loved. And love is THE GREATEST CHRISTIAN VIRTUE. Therefore any society where social relationaship aren't love based can't be Christian.
And this comes before any biblical quotes and is more powerful and important than bloody qoutes. What matters is understanding and doing His will, not blindly copying Bible.
Why isn't sin to save human life on Saturday, yet any work is forbbidden by Torah. Because in values hierarchy, human life comes before work and sadly this isn't written in Torah itself. You have to figure out yourself by understanding implications of second love command.
So, I ask you again. Is having slave doing in practice where you commanded to love others as yourself?
Well, since you, obviously, don't want to be slave, you can't demand from others to be slaves.
Because if I say "instead of allowing a sustainable arrangement where you will be fed, housed, treated fairly and sent forth in a position to restart your life debt-free in seven years or less is too much bother. So just go your way with this sandwich instead because I don't love you enough to commit to more" you would starve. Hypocrisy in action.
Are you trying to tell me debt slavery is good? By the way, where in Bible is written that debt slave must be fed and housed?
Debt slave is temporary worker. And worker decides where to sleep, where to eat and with whom to spend his free time. So basically work until debt is paid off.
Notice what it doesn't forbid. Alternative arrangments. Like slave starting business in free time and turning debt into regular interest payments.
Notice that Law orders release of slave for Jubilee, but it doesn't say that slave can only be freed during Jubilee. That way alternatives exist.
There is also possibility of love slave. When you so much adore someone you want to be their slave forever. That's special case. Probably has implication to our relationship with Messiah.
In your understanding, is a debt slave different from a person who was sold as a slave to cover their debt?
I don't know honestly.
What legal system says? Did Torah allow selling Hebrew slave owned by Hebrew to another?
Theoretically speaking, you can sell debt. Bond is type of debt and bond owner can sell. Per analogy, then slave would receive instruction from another "employer" after slave.
What matters is changes in duties and rights for slave. Also, going from good owner toward cruel would be very very bad.
It would suck going from working in hometown and being with family every night to being forced on moving for work and seeing family practically never.
If you had debt that you couldn’t pay, you sold your children first.
Then you sold yourself and your wife went with you.
Unless you sold the family together.
The new owner provided housing, food and rainment.
It was a righteous way of avoiding a prison system.Forgive me for asking but why care so much about the terms and agreements with slavery?
Last I checked slavery was illegal. Myself, I'd like to see it stay that way.
Mixing seed is not adultery in itself - because if the man gives his wife a certificate of divorce - and she marry's another man (mixing of seed) - it's not sin. However, in that case the man that gave her the certificate of divorce cannot have her again. There would be mixing of seed.
The certificate of divorce implies a physical and spiritual parting away:
1. Physical: She left the man’s house.
2. Spiritual: She can become one flesh with another man.
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De jure, but not defacto. Just ask a father or husband whose wages are garnished to pay his alimony and child support for a divorce he may have never wanted in the first place.
But, indentured servitude (form of slavery) to work off debt isn’t necessarily a bad idea. It’s humane and both parties benefit.
Yes. Exodus 21.2.
It doesn’t get much plainer than that!
It wasn’t that long ago (we are talking maybe 200 years ), that a wife wasn’t legally allowed to divorce her husband or own property. There are Lucifereans that abhor the “Dark Ages” (1,000 year period of Christian expansion/reign), because during that period of time women were viewed as a man’s property (10th commandment). Such an idea is barbaric to many people today - hence that time period called “The Dark Ages.”
Of course, after that period ended - laws and regulations were slowly passed across the generations that gave women further and further rights. Now the woman has higher status than the husband because of how divorce proceedings typically go.
Where was the prison in ancient Israel?
It is noteworthy that the dividing of the flesh is the sealing of a covenant.
It is a "transaction" but the terms and (bride)price are completely negotiable (seven years labor or commensurate amount in livestock or whatever dear old dad thinks of her worth). Sex simply seals the deal upon insemination. If it is a quiet insemination (unknown to others- horny people that we are) then the proof is the resultant pregnancy. Kinda hard in those days to hide a pregnancy after the first or second month when she is supposed to separate herself for that time of month. That's why scripture conflates "one flesh" with a baby.
That’s the whole point, you don’t need one if you can sell a criminal into slavery to pay for his crimes.
1If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep.
If a man is stealing a sheep in order to feed his family, where is he going to get four sheep to repay the owner? He can’t, so his future labor is sold to pay his debt.
Voila, he becomes a slave/servant for the number of years it would take to pay for four sheep.
Murderers paid with their life, immediately. Unless they could run faster scarred then the victim’s relatives could run mad. Then they might make it to the horns of the altar and were temporarily safe. Which, interestingly enough, would make the foot of the altar their prison until they maybe could work something out with their pursuers.
The problem with viewing a wife as mere property gets sticky when viewed against stewardship.
A steward will view all under his care with respect and as needing preservation.
Mere property doesn’t necessarily give rise to expectations of tending and enriching.
When I purchased my home many years ago, I was given sage advise by someone I knew. He told me that my new home was a gift from God and, as such, should be respected and not allowed to go into disrepair. He emphasized routine maintenance and gradual improvements as money and time permitted. Gods gift was to be appreciated and stewarded.