• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

What draws you to this lifestyle?

FeministVampireQueen said:
That's the thing though, some of the opposing views people have here aren't inherently that "modern" or even that "feminist," they're just labeled as such anytime there's a difference of opinion.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Those terms can be both loaded and generic.
 
Kojent said:
Less and less, to be honest with you, even as someone who the Lord hand delivered a perfect person (humanly speaking) to.

The amount of ecumenism and false teaching that is not only tolerated but elevated by pro-polygyny proponents is simply staggering.
Click to expand...

Could you expound on this? I'm not really familiar with the polygamy community. What do you take issue with?

Kojent said:
The amount of issues (related to stumbling blocks, logistics, jealousy, disunity, etc.) in even entertaining such a counter-cultural arrangement is also very humbling.
Click to expand...

The good thing about those issues though is that they're completely predictable, so I think there will be ways to navigate this. I think plan to create another thread on this issue. I think there will be ways to navigate this.

Kojent said:
The mere fact that pursuing such an arrangement almost guarantees that you will be persona non grata in any orthodox Christian fellowship should be enough to give a genuine disciple of Christ serious, serious pause.
Click to expand...

This is the biggest concern I have. Regardless of whether we're right or wrong on this issue, there will always be a social stigma. I'd like to try to change that though. I think many people will change their minds when they get to know us. But getting them to give you a chance is probably very difficult if they know about your lifestyle from the beginning.

Kojent said:
Thankfully the naysayers (such as one of the ladies on the main page at BibFam) aren’t being silenced on this forum, although they aren’t really being amplified either. You see this in secular niches too: transgender communities ostracize the de-transitioners, etc.
Click to expand...

Who are the naysayers? I'd like to hear their perspectives before we commit to this.

Kojent said:
My view is that polygyny, even if lawful, is almost always inexpedient for the aforementioned reasons.

Not to mention, if the Lord Jesus Christ did in fact expand (or clarify or fulfil) the law in a way that is new and different in the New Covenant, then every Christian polygynist could find themselves in a grave state of self-deception on the Last Day. It would be a terrible, teeth gnashing scenario to ultimately discover that polygyny in the New Covenant is considered porneia (fornication or sexual immorality).

The juice just probably isn't worth the squeeze in most cases.

Lots of sincere people here who are proponents. But the majority of people can and have been sincerely wrong on matters of eternal weight and moment since even before the Fall.
Click to expand...

Whether we're right or not, I don't think this is a salvation issue, if I'm understanding you correctly.
 
Mojo said:
If this is what you believe, then you will find good company here.
Click to expand...
You will also find some who would disagree with this too, for various reasons.

If taken too far, selflessness could paralyze a husband and father into not wanting to upset the peace in his home and thereby not making big or bold decisions (polygyny) to mollify a hesitant wife.

Selflessness isn’t slavery. It must be coupled with a willingness to lead in strength.
 
indigenouspolygynist said:
Could you expound on this? I'm not really familiar with the polygamy community. What do you take issue with?



The good thing about those issues though is that they're completely predictable, so I think there will be ways to navigate this. I think plan to create another thread on this issue. I think there will be ways to navigate this.



This is the biggest concern I have. Regardless of whether we're right or wrong on this issue, there will always be a social stigma. I'd like to try to change that though. I think many people will change their minds when they get to know us. But getting them to give you a chance is probably very difficult if they know about your lifestyle from the beginning.



Who are the naysayers? I'd like to hear their perspectives before we commit to this.



Whether we're right or not, I don't think this is a salvation issue, if I'm understanding you correctly.
Click to expand...

Howdy friend. Hope you’re doing well as you read this. Thank you for your questions. I will attempt to answer them in order, as I’m on a mobile device and splitting out multiple quotes is a pain in the pants.

1. We have some amount of LDS/FLDS, Judaizers, Torah Keepers and otherwise distressingly unorthodox folks, some which use liberty as a license for lasciviousness and broadly reinterpret texts like Romans 1 in order to erect their homestead harems, far from any sort of scrutiny or accountability from the saints, despite the fact that they will one day judge angels and even the world (1 Corinthians 6). A lot of attempts at polygyny result in divorce and neglect that go unreported. People here are big on the law: “nothing says I can’t,” “only God can judge me,” etc. That’s the vibe in a few corners of this community and it’s very disappointing. Lots of emphasis on the law. Not a lot on expedience.

There’s also just not a lot of folks who speak soberly about the fact that trying to be obedient to a desire to live a polygynous lifestyle is in direct conflict with commands to not forsake the assembling of saints together, obeying those that have the rule over you, etc. A lot of wresting and wrangling of Scripture, which makes sense because a lot of the folks have a low view of it, treating it as just another tool in the tool shed rather than something God-breathed.

It goes without saying that there’s also much more emphasis placed on normative principles (“e.g. nothing negatively forbids X”) rather than regulative principles (“e.g. nothing positively commands X”).

I don’t find the one positive command (ref. Levirate marriage) with regard to polygyny to be persuasive at all. Ain’t none of these homestead harems are wringing their hands over whether or not to marry their brother’s widow to raise up seed.

You don’t see polygynous Gentile gypsies in the New Testament, full stop. Even the main page of the website here which refers to “building the church through building the family” is, at best, covenantal nonsense. Saul could have a kid like Jonathan while David could have a kid like Absalom.

2. There are ways to navigate some of the issues as they come up, but the juice is almost never going to be worth the squeeze, especially if it means forsaking the assembling of saints together.

3. One of the best ways to change the stigma in a skeptical world would be to advocate for the biblical permissibility of polygyny without participating in polygyny yourself. In so doing it helps convey a standpoint that is decidedly more impartial. You might compare it with Paul making tents.

4. I don’t keep a list of naysayers but they’re out there. There’s like twenty years of posts in this place, so you can find a few if you dig around. There’s a lot of rebellious dudes who just want to find a biblical reason to wet their willy’s. There’s also some ladies that have been open and honest enough about what that costs couples and even large families.

5. Where I landed on this is that while you’re probably right about polygyny itself not being a salvation issue, I can’t guarantee it, no one else can either, and being wrong could cost you eternity. There’s not enough clear eyed dialogue about the very, very real risks of being wrong here.

Unrepentant adulterers and fornicators won’t inherit the Kingdom of God. The Patriarchs did inherit the Kingdom of God and so the thinking goes that every New Covenant Gentile is “in the clear.”

But not so fast, a woman never had property rights over her husband’s body in the OT, nor could it ever be said that adultery was committed against a woman in the OT.

There is a super vocal and historic majority of orthodox Christianity that see a change in priesthood (from Levitical to Melchizedekian) as a change in law per the Book of Hebrews et al. There’s also got to be something new about the New Covenant. It can’t just be that Gentiles can now worship the God of Israel, because the convert and stranger were always welcome. So you’ve got to really work out with fear and trembling before the Lord what that looks like.

The early church was debating about it whether someone could even remarry after death. A lot of the ante-Nicene quotes you can find in the patristics that are citing “second marriage” are referring to subsequent polygyny/bigamy (you also see terms like digamy and trigramy being used, but they’re always referring to subsequent or sequential polygyny, not simultaneous polygyny).

Honest people freely admit this. But many here either don’t take the time to diligently search these things out before they post and say “Look; see, they were doing it back then! Buck the Greco-Roman system!” They’re content to just score what they think is an easy win and in a vacuum chamber not a lot of reasoned responses are expected if they’re critical of polygyny. This is a decidedly pro-polygyny place after all.

Anyway would really, really, really suck to be wrong about this issue, and given the propensity for the majority of people to be self-deceived per Matthew 7, and the desperately wicked and deceitful nature of the heart per Jeremiah 17:9, it will prove disastrous for many people to privately interpret Holy Scripture in their pursuit of polygyny. Lust of the heart is huge problem, Christ pointed a spotlight on it, and so I do think that people who have lifelong porn addictions for which they remain unrepentant will hear a sentence of “Porneia” and be forbidden entrance into the Kingdom of God, despite the fact that the word meant sexual immorality and not looking at mere images per se.

People like to squint at what the word meant back then as if that settles it. But Christ is King, NOT context. He preserved it for us for today. He inspired it in a verbal and plenary and inerrant way.

Just like how plowing with an ox and a donkey didn’t have anything to do with carnal pastoral compensation in its original context. That doesn’t matter, ultimately. There’s a spiritual principle there that is enduring and timeless and load bearing and absolutely has applications for us today.


So is polygyny lawful? Maybe.

Is it expedient? Almost never.
 
Last edited:
Kojent said:
Howdy friend. Hope you’re doing well as you read this. Thank you for your questions. I will attempt to answer them in order, as I’m on a mobile device and splitting out multiple quotes is a pain in the pants.

1. We have some amount of LDS/FLDS, Judaizers, Torah Keepers and otherwise distressingly unorthodox folks, some which use liberty as a license for lasciviousness and broadly reinterpret texts like Romans 1 in order to erect their homestead harems, far from any sort of scrutiny or accountability from the saints, despite the fact that they will one day judge angels and even the world (1 Corinthians 6). A lot of attempts at polygyny result in divorce and neglect that go unreported. People here are big on the law: “nothing says I can’t,” “only God can judge me,” etc. That’s the vibe in a few corners of this community and it’s very disappointing. Lots of emphasis on the law. Not a lot on expedience.

There’s also just not a lot of folks who speak soberly about the fact that trying to be obedient to a desire to live a polygynous lifestyle is in direct conflict with commands to not forsake the assembling of saints together, obeying those that have the rule over you, etc. A lot of wresting and wrangling of Scripture, which makes sense because a lot of the folks have a low view of it, treating it as just another tool in the tool shed rather than something God-breathed.

It goes without saying that there’s also much more emphasis placed on normative principles (“e.g. nothing negatively forbids X”) rather than regulative principles (“e.g. nothing positively commands X”).

2. There are ways to navigate some of the issues as they come up, but the juice is almost never going to be worth the squeeze, especially if it means forsaking the assembling of saints together.

3. One of the best ways to change the stigma in a skeptical world would be to advocate for the biblical permissibility of polygyny without participating in polygyny yourself. In so doing it helps convey a standpoint that is decidedly more impartial. You might compare it with Paul making tents.

4. I don’t keep a list of naysayers but they’re out there. There’s like twenty years of posts in this place, so you can find a few if you dig around. There’s a lot of rebellious dudes who just want to find a biblical reason to wet their willy’s. There’s also some ladies that have been open and honest enough about what that costs couples and even large families.

5. Where I landed on this is that while you’re probably right about polygyny itself not being a salvation issue, I can’t guarantee it, no one else can either, and being wrong could cost you eternity. There’s not enough clear eyed dialogue about the very, very real risks of being wrong here.

Unrepentant adulterers and fornicators won’t inherit the Kingdom of God. The Patriarchs did inherit the Kingdom of God and so the thinking goes that every New Covenant Gentile is “in the clear.”

But not so fast, a woman never had property rights over her husband’s body in the OT, nor could it ever be said that adultery was committed against a woman in the OT.

There is a super vocal and historic majority of orthodox Christianity that see a change in priesthood (from Levitical to Melchizedekian) as a change in law per the Book of Hebrews et al. There’s also got to be something new about the New Covenant. It can’t just be that Gentiles can now worship the God of Israel, because the convert and stranger were always welcome. So you’ve got to really work out with fear and trembling before the Lord what that looks like.

The early church was debating about it whether someone could even remarry after death. A lot of the ante-Nicene quotes you can find in the patristics that are citing “second marriage” are referring to subsequent polygyny/bigamy (you also see terms like digamy and trigramy being used, but they’re always referring to subsequent or sequential polygyny, not simultaneous polygyny).

Honest people freely admit this. But many here either don’t take the time to diligently search these things out before they post and say “Look; see, they were doing it back then! Buck the Greco-Roman system!” They’re content to just score what they think is an easy win and in a vacuum chamber not a lot of reasoned responses are expected if they’re critical of polygyny. This is a decidedly pro-polygyny place after all.

Anyway would really, really, really suck to be wrong about this issue, and given the propensity for the majority of people to be self-deceived per Matthew 7, and the desperately wicked and deceitful nature of the heart per Jeremiah 17:9, it will prove disastrous for many people to privately interpret Holy Scripture in their pursuit of polygyny. Lust of the heart is huge problem, Christ pointed a spotlight on it, and so I do think that people who have lifelong porn addictions for which they remain unrepentant will hear a sentence of “Porneia” and be forbidden entrance into the Kingdom of God, despite the fact that the word meant sexual immorality and not looking at mere images per se.

People like to squint at what the word meant back then as if that settles it. But Christ is King, NOT context. He preserved it for us for today. He inspired it in a verbal and plenary and inerrant way.

Just like how plowing with an ox and a donkey didn’t have anything to do with carnal pastoral compensation in its original context. That doesn’t matter, ultimately. There’s a spiritual principle there that is enduring and timeless and load bearing and absolutely has applications for us today.


So is polygyny lawful? Maybe.

Is it expedient? Almost never.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response. I read all of it, but it's a lot to respond to. Have you practiced polygamy yourself? What brought you to the forum?

I respect your opinion. It sounds like you've done a lot of soul searching on this issue. And I agree completely that there seems to be a lot of dysfunction going on in some of the threads here. I've definitely come across posts where it sounds like the man is trying to force a woman to consent to his affairs. It's disgusting. No woman should ever be subjected to this lifestyle without true, enthusiastic consent.

My wife and I are both interested in this from the standpoint of building a family. We're both from broken, dysfunctional families. We're longing for support and to have another adult in our family. Kids are great, but without adult family members, we've always felt like we're missing something. There's a whole in our family that's shaped like F2.

If all goes well, F1 and F2 are going to meet for the first time in about a week. I can't wait to see them together. I expect it will be a slow start. My wife is shy and I think F2 will feel awkward at first because she likes me and she's probably confused about the entire situation. But I think they'll become best friends eventually.
 
indigenouspolygynist said:
Thanks for the response. I read all of it, but it's a lot to respond to. Have you practiced polygamy yourself? What brought you to the forum?

I respect your opinion. It sounds like you've done a lot of soul searching on this issue. And I agree completely that there seems to be a lot of dysfunction going on in some of the threads here. I've definitely come across posts where it sounds like the man is trying to force a woman to consent to his affairs. It's disgusting. No woman should ever be subjected to this lifestyle without true, enthusiastic consent.

My wife and I are both interested in this from the standpoint of building a family. We're both from broken, dysfunctional families. We're longing for support and to have another adult in our family. Kids are great, but without adult family members, we've always felt like we're missing something. There's a whole in our family that's shaped like F2.

If all goes well, F1 and F2 are going to meet for the first time in about a week. I can't wait to see them together. I expect it will be a slow start. My wife is shy and I think F2 will feel awkward at first because she likes me and she's probably confused about the entire situation. But I think they'll become best friends eventual
Click to expand...

Kojent said:
Howdy friend. Hope you’re doing well as you read this. Thank you for your questions. I will attempt to answer them in order, as I’m on a mobile device and splitting out multiple quotes is a pain in the pants.

1. We have some amount of LDS/FLDS, Judaizers, Torah Keepers and otherwise distressingly unorthodox folks, some which use liberty as a license for lasciviousness and broadly reinterpret texts like Romans 1 in order to erect their homestead harems, far from any sort of scrutiny or accountability from the saints, despite the fact that they will one day judge angels and even the world (1 Corinthians 6). A lot of attempts at polygyny result in divorce and neglect that go unreported. People here are big on the law: “nothing says I can’t,” “only God can judge me,” etc. That’s the vibe in a few corners of this community and it’s very disappointing. Lots of emphasis on the law. Not a lot on expedience.

There’s also just not a lot of folks who speak soberly about the fact that trying to be obedient to a desire to live a polygynous lifestyle is in direct conflict with commands to not forsake the assembling of saints together, obeying those that have the rule over you, etc. A lot of wresting and wrangling of Scripture, which makes sense because a lot of the folks have a low view of it, treating it as just another tool in the tool shed rather than something God-breathed.

It goes without saying that there’s also much more emphasis placed on normative principles (“e.g. nothing negatively forbids X”) rather than regulative principles (“e.g. nothing positively commands X”).

2. There are ways to navigate some of the issues as they come up, but the juice is almost never going to be worth the squeeze, especially if it means forsaking the assembling of saints together.

3. One of the best ways to change the stigma in a skeptical world would be to advocate for the biblical permissibility of polygyny without participating in polygyny yourself. In so doing it helps convey a standpoint that is decidedly more impartial. You might compare it with Paul making tents.

4. I don’t keep a list of naysayers but they’re out there. There’s like twenty years of posts in this place, so you can find a few if you dig around. There’s a lot of rebellious dudes who just want to find a biblical reason to wet their willy’s. There’s also some ladies that have been open and honest enough about what that costs couples and even large families.

5. Where I landed on this is that while you’re probably right about polygyny itself not being a salvation issue, I can’t guarantee it, no one else can either, and being wrong could cost you eternity. There’s not enough clear eyed dialogue about the very, very real risks of being wrong here.

Unrepentant adulterers and fornicators won’t inherit the Kingdom of God. The Patriarchs did inherit the Kingdom of God and so the thinking goes that every New Covenant Gentile is “in the clear.”

But not so fast, a woman never had property rights over her husband’s body in the OT, nor could it ever be said that adultery was committed against a woman in the OT.

There is a super vocal and historic majority of orthodox Christianity that see a change in priesthood (from Levitical to Melchizedekian) as a change in law per the Book of Hebrews et al. There’s also got to be something new about the New Covenant. It can’t just be that Gentiles can now worship the God of Israel, because the convert and stranger were always welcome. So you’ve got to really work out with fear and trembling before the Lord what that looks like.

The early church was debating about it whether someone could even remarry after death. A lot of the ante-Nicene quotes you can find in the patristics that are citing “second marriage” are referring to subsequent polygyny/bigamy (you also see terms like digamy and trigramy being used, but they’re always referring to subsequent or sequential polygyny, not simultaneous polygyny).

Honest people freely admit this. But many here either don’t take the time to diligently search these things out before they post and say “Look; see, they were doing it back then! Buck the Greco-Roman system!” They’re content to just score what they think is an easy win and in a vacuum chamber not a lot of reasoned responses are expected if they’re critical of polygyny. This is a decidedly pro-polygyny place after all.

Anyway would really, really, really suck to be wrong about this issue, and given the propensity for the majority of people to be self-deceived per Matthew 7, and the desperately wicked and deceitful nature of the heart per Jeremiah 17:9, it will prove disastrous for many people to privately interpret Holy Scripture in their pursuit of polygyny. Lust of the heart is huge problem, Christ pointed a spotlight on it, and so I do think that people who have lifelong porn addictions for which they remain unrepentant will hear a sentence of “Porneia” and be forbidden entrance into the Kingdom of God, despite the fact that the word meant sexual immorality and not looking at mere images per se.

People like to squint at what the word meant back then as if that settles it. But Christ is King, NOT context. He preserved it for us for today. He inspired it in a verbal and plenary and inerrant way.

Just like how plowing with an ox and a donkey didn’t have anything to do with carnal pastoral compensation in its original context. That doesn’t matter, ultimately. There’s a spiritual principle there that is enduring and timeless and load bearing and absolutely has applications for us today.


So is polygyny lawful? Maybe.

Is it expedient? Almost never.
Click to expand...

By the way, have you seen this video? I think this family is a great example of what a family can look like when there's unity. This is what I want for my family.

Poly Family Interviewed

biblicalfamilies.org biblicalfamilies.org
 
indigenouspolygynist said:
Thanks for the response. I read all of it, but it's a lot to respond to. Have you practiced polygamy yourself? What brought you to the forum?

I respect your opinion. It sounds like you've done a lot of soul searching on this issue. And I agree completely that there seems to be a lot of dysfunction going on in some of the threads here. I've definitely come across posts where it sounds like the man is trying to force a woman to consent to his affairs. It's disgusting. No woman should ever be subjected to this lifestyle without true, enthusiastic consent.

My wife and I are both interested in this from the standpoint of building a family. We're both from broken, dysfunctional families. We're longing for support and to have another adult in our family. Kids are great, but without adult family members, we've always felt like we're missing something. There's a whole in our family that's shaped like F2.

If all goes well, F1 and F2 are going to meet for the first time in about a week. I can't wait to see them together. I expect it will be a slow start. My wife is shy and I think F2 will feel awkward at first because she likes me and she's probably confused about the entire situation. But I think they'll become best friends eventually.
Click to expand...

It’s important to note that the Holy Scriptures must necessarily contain everything we need for life and godliness and that the egalitarian thinking around the first wife needing to be on board just isn’t found in God’s Word. I agree that from a practical feasibility perspective it makes sense, but it just doesn’t enjoy the benefit of having a biblical basis.

Thankfully there are folks here that will be honest with you to the degree that they will confess (along with me) that bringing another person into your personal situation with the aim of fixing a problem is a bad idea. A really bad idea. I have to give an account for my counsel here; so there you have it.

It’s also worth mentioning that Sarah and Hagar had their own tents. Pro-polygyny folks differ on if and how they distinguish between multiple parallel dyadic unions compared to a triadic union where you have multiple women getting along, sleeping in the same beds (as opposed to maintaining separate undefiled marital beds), doing things they really shouldn’t together, etc.

As for your first question about what my current situation is, as I said, the Lord hand delivered a woman who would’ve been ideal, but over the course of the past year it has proven to be little more than “Hevel.”

May you find every blessing in the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Mojo said:
Distressingly? That’s a pretty choice word.
Click to expand...

Brother, you’re gonna see the distress for yourself. On the Last Day there’s a line of goats and sheep and it’s in all probability first come first serve. You’re gonna see my business, I’m gonna see your business and we’re gonna see their business.

Get ready. Because most are self-deceived per Matthew 7.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top