Support New to all this and afraid to speak publicly

[indigenouspolygynist]

Nearly the entire point of my previous long post directly before this one is that BECAUSE my wife is submissive and respectful, I perform in a worthy manner.

This obviously isn't the case for everyone or else my grandpa would have treated his wife with a lot more respect.

 

[Mojo]

I have to admit that I haven’t read every single line of reply to @millennial_mama but the overall impression I get is that her very real concerns, emotions and objections are coming from a serious place of exhaustion, complicated by hormonal imbalances due to childbirth.

I don’t think it’s rebellious feminism that’s motivating her right now. Throwing Bible verses around and talking about submission, order and the lot is not likely to dent her walls of objection. I recall a phrase that talks about “being so heavenly minded, that you’re no earthly good.”

If I was in her shoes (assuming all of her described stressors are reality) I wouldn’t exactly see a second as my salvation either. Having a newborn, other children, homeschooling and being a wife is stressful enough without adding in another personality that, in theory, will help me, but will use up the last remaining amount of mental energy and sanity that’s left to assimilate.

It seems as though a reevaluation of the current organization of the house is in order. It’s not to say that @indigenouspolygynist is not being a good husband or patriarch. He might just need some management adjustments. Again, I’m not in the house, I can only go by what I’ve read (admittedly skimming in some posts).

If it was a business, I’d suggest a logistical evaluation of the current operating system before looking to expand or merge.

I may be wrong in my impressions. Please feel free to advise where I may be overstating or oversimplifying based on the replies.

 

[MemeFan]

At the core of it is this: "I don't have to follow the rules, I don't have to listen to others, I can make my own happiness... I can be my own God."

The political goals of Feminism are depopulation, the destruction of marriage as an institution, and the collapse of society. These aren't accidental side affects of the theology, they are the actual goals of it.

Feminism is just the political arm of witchcraft, which is the sin of rebellion against God. God wants humans to create large families and increase population growth. It's the first commandment in the Bible. We see over and over how Satan uses his own theologies to create sinful, decrepit civilizations which focus on the slaughter of the innocent, the reduction of populations, and collapse. See the Amalekites, Canaanites, Egyptians, Greeks, Mayans, Azteks... this stuff always ends up with misery and collapse. It isn't an accident, it was done on purpose.

None of this is true enough to be helpful. There is so much missing key info that no succesful restoration can be made.

I not claiming that I see everything, but blaming feminism is joke. Because feminism is just one branch of purposeful attack on humanity.

Even heard of communism, WEF? International elite exist, it's in their interest to create global state (or as biggest state they can get) and also to destroy all intermediate institutions. Anything which enables people not to depend on their idealized central state must be gone.

Total social dysfunction is goal and something which enables to get more power to state. More vices also fuel process.

And this matters because Christians are politically wimps. If Christians behave as muslims when being insulted, there would be way less shaming of Christians. Why is socially acceptable to shit on Christians and nobody else?

All this we must return to Lord is BS precisely because it means live morally which somehow means retreating to homestead. People, evil has name, adresses and organisation. So real solution is going Bukele style on criminals.

In old times mistreating Roman citizens mean facing sharp end of Roman army. In 19th century European state did care about status of Christians in world. Ottomans did faced possibility of losing another war to Russians if they tried some funny business.

If you are unwilling to organize self defense, all you do is to allow others to shit on you. Armed resistance is extreme version of this. If muslims are fine cutting public funding to abortion centers when in political power, why can't Christians to same?

GOP's base is made of Christians (more in history than now). It would be expect for GOP's majority of Congress to save to cut of public spending on feminists, wokes.... Yet, this didn't happen.

Man,so politicians betray Christians and you take in ass because rightneouss Christian doesn't get angry, demands actions (of himself and others claiming to act in public interest) and retreats to homestead and does homeschooling.

Now life sucks because you have to sacrifice. Maybe, public schools shouldn't left to leftists. By the way, if they get in power, you will go to jail for homeschooling.

And retreat to homestead has made raising children a little hell precisely because there is nobody else to help. Another wife would help, bit where are grandparents, siblings of both parents etc.... On their own homestead 100s km away, so they can't help.

 

[MemeFan]

It seems women get the short end of the deal. It seems like such an amazing thing to be a man, and women endure such suffering even simply bearing children and raising them. I’ve been pregnant and/or nursing continuously for over 11 years. I’m so burned out. I can’t handle another life stressor like this right now. I wish I could check myself into a psychiatric hospital or something, but I can’t because my kids need me 24/7.

You need rest and recovery.

Can you send children to grandparents or something similar for few days to take rest.

Also, anything training how to deal with stress would be very helpful right now. If you see something as danger, you won't be able to rest. If this non-rest period continue you will break down. And become case in psychiatric hospital. I'm being deadly serious.

 

[Off-Grid Artist]

This obviously isn't the case for everyone or else my grandpa would have treated his wife with a lot more respect.

You perfectly described my grandpa Alfred and my grandma Ferne. But, I do see it very differently than you do.

At a certain point in his late 70s or early 80s, his girlfriend of a very long time passed away. I don't know how long they were together, but it was at least 30 years. Now the way I see it, that's a marriage.

The topic of his girlfriend came public within the family about that time. My mother had been whispering about her for awhile, so I knew. My little sisters, I don't know. Probably not. Grandma knew the whole time.

Grandpa and grandma grew up in a society which understood that strong men with good incomes often have more than one woman. My mom was an aggressive college-educated Feminist who had a terrible marriage and a very awful rocky dating life before it. She never accepted that she was her own problem. She inverted my father's household and lorded over him. He was miserable and always hiding away in the basement.

She spent a long time trying to convince her mother to divorce her father. It was pretty trashy. Her mother loved her father, and he loved her.

If we lived in a Biblical society, if my grandparents grew up in a Biblical society, our grandfathers both would have just had two wives publicly. Instead, the public condemnation and inverted nature of the society we are in kept them in a situation which could have caused them shame if they were to live honesty. The social arrangement we have rewards secrecy and silence. A major part of the problem is that in this inverted society, nobody cares if a married man has a girlfriend on the side. Even men in the churches do it. But wives expect the husband to be silent about it. It's about social status, "what will my friends think about me?"

My grandmother liked to play the victim. It was a big part of her identity, she wouldn't have let it go. Her husband was a very good provider, respected in his community, others looked up to him. He was well respected. When his girlfriend died, people just felt sorry for him for losing her because it was known that he loved her.

I was part of a conversation with my two uncles, his sons. They were talking about it. The one uncle told said to us "dad told me he never cheated on mom and I believe him." That was the effeminate uncle who had been divorced by a masculine mean wife of his. I don't know what the other uncle was told.

During that visit my grandpa took me for a walk in the orchard. He didn't talk about the woman or assume that I knew about it. He instead told me that a lot of men have "a woman on the side." He said "everybody does it, but nobody talks about it." Now I don't think that's true but I think it's generally kind of normalized. It's the wrong way to live.

The Bible doesn't talk about "cheating." It talks about adultery. If a woman is married and another man sleeps with her, both of them shall be killed. Zero tolerance for a man taking another man's wife. I don't know if my grandpa's girlfriend was married or not. If she was, then he was Biblically doing wrong and should have been punished. Not because of my grandma, but because of the husband who he would have theoretically wronged. The problem I have with it is that he should have married that other woman and lived with her in his home alongside my grandmother and lived an honest life with his head held high.

My grandfather treated my grandmother with a high degree of respect. She was well taken care of and he let everyone know how much he cherished her. When she passed later, he was completely distraught. He was one of the strongest men I knew and he was suddenly unable to take care of himself for quite a while.

That might not be a very helpful story but it's what you reminded me of.

 

[Off-Grid Artist]

None of this is true enough to be helpful. There is so much missing key info that no succesful restoration can be made.

I not claiming that I see everything, but blaming feminism is joke. Because feminism is just one branch of purposeful attack on humanity.

Even heard of communism, WEF? International elite exist, it's in their interest to create global state (or as biggest state they can get) and also to destroy all intermediate institutions. Anything which enables people not to depend on their idealized central state must be gone.

Total social dysfunction is goal and something which enables to get more power to state. More vices also fuel process.

Yeah I agree with this whole post actually, except that Feminism isn't a joke. It is the political arm of witchcraft and it paves the way for Communism. A Communist society cannot exist without Feminism first destroying the social fabric. A Godly nation will never have Feminism or Communism. A nation which accepts Feminism will never have Biblical order.

In both of my previous longer posts I mentioned that the Bible describes how to save a nation which has gone as evil and inverted as ours. I said it isn't pretty and then didn't go into detail. You're hitting the nail on the head here. I think the "retreat to the homestead" lifestyle (like mine and many others on here) is a precursor to the kind of societal change you are describing. My wife and I have been talking a lot about it, and what it will look like when it happens.

I do agree with Mojo that this direction of the conversation isn't probably helpful to the couple here. Forgive me for forum-sliding to whatever degree I am.

 

[HomesteadWife]

This is just a lot for me to take right now. I’m postpartum with my 4th child, drowning in kids and homeschooling and housework. And getting woken up all night and not sleeping. I’m so overwhelmed.

On the topic of overwhelm I'd like to suggest the YouTube channel Transformed Homemakers Society. As a mom of two, 3 and 1, with another on the way I have found it a really good grounding resource for seasons of overwhelm. It deals with rewiring your brain to get you out of survival mode using a biblical model and method. Based on what you have shared this is probably something your body has been in for a really long time. Which I can relate to. She has a free workshop which you can access immediately. She also offers a paid course. If you find her content useful and its in your budget the paid course offers a support group which you might find useful in this season.

 

[indigenouspolygynist]

You need rest and recovery.

Can you send children to grandparents or something similar for few days to take rest.

No, that's never been an option for us.

 

[indigenouspolygynist]

You perfectly described my grandpa Alfred and my grandma Ferne. But, I do see it very differently than you do.

At a certain point in his late 70s or early 80s, his girlfriend of a very long time passed away. I don't know how long they were together, but it was at least 30 years. Now the way I see it, that's a marriage.

The topic of his girlfriend came public within the family about that time. My mother had been whispering about her for awhile, so I knew. My little sisters, I don't know. Probably not. Grandma knew the whole time.

Grandpa and grandma grew up in a society which understood that strong men with good incomes often have more than one woman. My mom was an aggressive college-educated Feminist who had a terrible marriage and a very awful rocky dating life before it. She never accepted that she was her own problem. She inverted my father's household and lorded over him. He was miserable and always hiding away in the basement.

She spent a long time trying to convince her mother to divorce her father. It was pretty trashy. Her mother loved her father, and he loved her.

If we lived in a Biblical society, if my grandparents grew up in a Biblical society, our grandfathers both would have just had two wives publicly. Instead, the public condemnation and inverted nature of the society we are in kept them in a situation which could have caused them shame if they were to live honesty. The social arrangement we have rewards secrecy and silence. A major part of the problem is that in this inverted society, nobody cares if a married man has a girlfriend on the side. Even men in the churches do it. But wives expect the husband to be silent about it. It's about social status, "what will my friends think about me?"

My grandmother liked to play the victim. It was a big part of her identity, she wouldn't have let it go. Her husband was a very good provider, respected in his community, others looked up to him. He was well respected. When his girlfriend died, people just felt sorry for him for losing her because it was known that he loved her.

I was part of a conversation with my two uncles, his sons. They were talking about it. The one uncle told said to us "dad told me he never cheated on mom and I believe him." That was the effeminate uncle who had been divorced by a masculine mean wife of his. I don't know what the other uncle was told.

During that visit my grandpa took me for a walk in the orchard. He didn't talk about the woman or assume that I knew about it. He instead told me that a lot of men have "a woman on the side." He said "everybody does it, but nobody talks about it." Now I don't think that's true but I think it's generally kind of normalized. It's the wrong way to live.

The Bible doesn't talk about "cheating." It talks about adultery. If a woman is married and another man sleeps with her, both of them shall be killed. Zero tolerance for a man taking another man's wife. I don't know if my grandpa's girlfriend was married or not. If she was, then he was Biblically doing wrong and should have been punished. Not because of my grandma, but because of the husband who he would have theoretically wronged. The problem I have with it is that he should have married that other woman and lived with her in his home alongside my grandmother and lived an honest life with his head held high.

My grandfather treated my grandmother with a high degree of respect. She was well taken care of and he let everyone know how much he cherished her. When she passed later, he was completely distraught. He was one of the strongest men I knew and he was suddenly unable to take care of himself for quite a while.

That might not be a very helpful story but it's what you reminded me of.

I can't speak to your situation, but my grandpa was cheating on her with different women over the years, all married as I understand. He never told her, but my uncle told me that he witnessed her discovering it in the '60s.

 

[indigenouspolygynist]

I can't speak to your situation, but my grandpa was cheating on her with different women over the years, all married as I understand. He never told her, but my uncle told me that he witnessed her discovering it in the '60s.

Also, beyond the adultery, he was incredibly disrespectful to her throughout their marriage. He never treated her with love. I found a backup of emails from the '90s a few years ago and I saw lots of distasteful comments he made about her when talking to others, saying she was lazy, didn't know what hard work looks like, etc. He also made a lot of inappropriate comments about her looks. She never deserved any of that. She also did the vast majority of the work in the family while he sat in the recliner all day.

 

[MemeFan]

No, that's never been an option for us.

Then you risk unvoluntary time in psychiatric hospital. Or maybe some other department.

Heard too much stories about people who thought they didn't need rest only to wake one day in hospital bed.

 

[MemeFan]

Yeah I agree with this whole post actually, except that Feminism isn't a joke. It is the political arm of witchcraft and it paves the way for Communism. A Communist society cannot exist without Feminism first destroying the social fabric. A Godly nation will never have Feminism or Communism. A nation which accepts Feminism will never have Biblical order.

In both of my previous longer posts I mentioned that the Bible describes how to save a nation which has gone as evil and inverted as ours. I said it isn't pretty and then didn't go into detail. You're hitting the nail on the head here. I think the "retreat to the homestead" lifestyle (like mine and many others on here) is a precursor to the kind of societal change you are describing. My wife and I have been talking a lot about it, and what it will look like when it happens.

I do agree with Mojo that this direction of the conversation isn't probably helpful to the couple here. Forgive me for forum-sliding to whatever degree I am.

Equality is what produces communism, not feminism. Feminism is just one branch of equality and other braches are sufficient to produce communism.

No retreat to homestead can fix society since by far most of cultural production is based in cities.

 

[cnystrom]

It's not going well. I introduced them when we walked in. We sat down with her and talked for a few minutes, then she moved to a different table. Maybe she's completely moved on because she views me as unavailable. I don't know what to do next, if anything.

What kind of location did you meet at? What kind of event was it? Were there other people she knew at the other table or was she sitting at the other table by herself?

 

[cnystrom]

Not knowing is driving me crazy.

You will need to relax and calm down and remember you are the prize. Good men are in very short supply.

 

[cnystrom]

I can't sleep. I didn't know my wife felt so strongly about plural marriage until tonight. She seemed agreeable before. She said positive things about it and she agreed on the biblical basis for it. But she made it very clear tonight that she doesn't want to do this.

I keep praying that one of us changes our feelings. She'll stick by me no matter what, but I could never go through with this if it's hurting her. She's the only person in the world who really loves me. She's the only family I have. And all I want is more family.

Sounds like you at least need to take a break and catch your breath.

I don't know what to do. This is eating me alive. I love my wife so much and I don't want to hurt her, but my longing to expand our family is just as strong. I feel so lonely.

Relax. Recenter.

When I was a kid, I used to see other kids with parents who loved each other and everyone was healthy and cared for each other. I'm almost 40 years old and I'm still grieving the family I never had. I have this hole in my heart. When I was in my 20s, I longed for children. I finally got them, but I've found that marriage is incredibly lonely when you have no family support.

We haven't had any significant amount of time together since our son was born over a decade ago. We only get to see each other if we stay up late and lose a lot of sleep. We haven't even shares a bed for years because we've had kids in our bed all this time. I hardly even feel like I'm married.

Now we are getting somewhere. It sounds like you have some work to do with your first wife before adding a second wife.

Maybe you need to put your foot down and kick the kids out of the bed? If your wife would rather sleep with the kids then you, then you have some serious work to do.

Step #1 is to have a heart to heart talk with her that you are NOT happy with the situation as is and you expect changes. You should not lose control of yourself, but there is nothing wrong with a little righteous anger. By all means start gentle, but if the conversation is not going in the direction you want it to let her know that you are seriously displeased.

I dreamed my whole life of what marriage would look like. I pictured us going to sleep together every night holding each other under the sheets. When we got married, I found out that she doesn't like sheets and she didn't like sharing a blanket. Holding each other until we fell asleep wasn't comfortable for her. Then babies and the neighbor's noisy dog forced me to sleep in the walk in closet.

It sounds like you are reacting instead of leading. Never, never, never agree to sleep in the closet. It is your house right? How is Dad to be respected if he is sleeping in the closet? The call it the master bedroom for a reason. Be the master and take your bedroom!

Now I have this crazy solution to solve all our problems. We could finally spend a night together without kids if I marry a second person. We could have another family member to replace the ones we've been missing all these years. And it's just not working out for stupid, frustrating reasons.

No, no, no. Polygyny is NEVER the answer to monogamous marriage problems. Only attempt polygyny if you feel like your first marriage is going well and you have some extra love to share. If your first marriage is not doing well adding another one will only ADD to your problems.

I don't know where to go from here. Life has been so hard.

First of all, I would stop thinking about polygyny and start thinking about stepping up as the man of the house and start setting boundaries. Remember she is your helpmate, not vice versa.

Be a leader. What are you trying to do as a family? Be specific. Come up with a mission statement and post copies of it up on your wall. Come up with a set of family rules to accomplish your mission. Lead by example. Evaluate your progress in achieving your mission as you go.

I have included mine for reference. It is still on my wall, even though all of the kids have moved out by now.

I am not suggesting that we followed it perfectly but at least it was clear what we were trying to achieve.

 

[cnystrom]

When I said I don't feel like I'm married, I mean because we never get to be together. We devote our entire lives to raising the kids and we only get the small scraps left over at the end of the day. It's not because we don't love each other. We're just exhausted and overwhelmed with our responsibilities.

Do not settle for small scraps. Carve yourself out a choice time and make it a priority. This is really important!

How old are your kids? If they are young put them to bed earlier and tell them that it is mommy and daddy time now. Expect them to stay in bed and be quiet. Train them to do so, if it is not currently within their capabilities.

A good babysitter is worth their weight in gold. New parents should have phased array radars in constant operation looking out for them.

If your children are older send them to another room or to play outside. Insist on no interruptions. Run around naked if you have to, so they get the point that your time is personal marriage time, not family time.

As soon as the oldest is 12 or so they should be able to take care of the rest of the kids for the evening so you can take mommy out on a date. We go out weekly. If money is an issue take her out to free park and have a picnic with sandwiches.

The point is make 1:1 a high priority task, not a leftover task.

You do not have time for a second wife if you do not have time for a first wife.

You do not want a child centric home. Your home should be centered on your marriage to each other and your children will be happier and better adjusted if it is.

 

[indigenouspolygynist]

What kind of location did you meet at? What kind of event was it? Were there other people she knew at the other table or was she sitting at the other table by herself?

It's a club we're both a part of. We were meeting in a gymnasium. The attendance was smaller than normal, maybe 30 people. We both know everyone in the room.

I was thinking about it this morning. I have two hunches about her. I could be wrong, but I think she has feelings for me, and I also suspect that she's infertile based on a previous conversation. (I don't know either things for sure since I haven't asked.) The combination of those two things would definitely explain her behavior at the meeting. Imagine a woman having feelings for a man, then discovering he's married. And then you see him walk in the door with his beautiful wife holding a newborn baby. The combination of those two things would be crushing. It would explain why she didn't seem interested in the baby.

You will need to relax and calm down and remember you are the prize. Good men are in very short supply.

I appreciate that.

(I'm splitting my reply here because the editor crashed my browser when I tried to respond with all the quotes.)

 

[millennial_mama]

I have to admit that I haven’t read every single line of reply to @millennial_mama but the overall impression I get is that her very real concerns, emotions and objections are coming from a serious place of exhaustion, complicated by hormonal imbalances due to childbirth.

I don’t think it’s rebellious feminism that’s motivating her right now. Throwing Bible verses around and talking about submission, order and the lot is not likely to dent her walls of objection. I recall a phrase that talks about “being so heavenly minded, that you’re no earthly good.”

If I was in her shoes (assuming all of her described stressors are reality) I wouldn’t exactly see a second as my salvation either. Having a newborn, other children, homeschooling and being a wife is stressful enough without adding in another personality that, in theory, will help me, but will use up the last remaining amount of mental energy and sanity that’s left to assimilate.

Thank you Mojo for being understanding. I just don’t have a lot of capacity for these ideas right now. I also do not want to be a rebellious feminist at all. I’ve been a believer for decades, Jesus is my Lord and ruler of my life, and I have already decided that I will submit to His word and follow Him even when it is difficult to do so. This is just a very tough pill to swallow. I think that the thing he said about eating his flesh and drinking his blood is way easier to accept! Also, I am very unfamiliar to this topic and didn’t know that a wife having multiple husbands is forbidden, for example, simply because of not studying this before. I know the rest of the Bible very well I think. I appreciate if you all can give me grace on this topic.

 

[indigenouspolygynist]

Maybe you need to put your foot down and kick the kids out of the bed? If your wife would rather sleep with the kids then you, then you have some serious work to do.

It's not like that at all. We have a baby in the room because she's nursing every few hours. The older kid though is a real problem. He has epilepsy and he's terrified of going to sleep at night because that's when he used to get seizures before we found the right medication for him. He can only sleep if he's with one of us. Steve suggested I try sleeping in his room with him until he gets used to being in there by himself. I'll try that once I'm fully recovered from my surgery.

Step #1 is to have a heart to heart talk with her that you are NOT happy with the situation as is and you expect changes. You should not lose control of yourself, but there is nothing wrong with a little righteous anger. By all means start gentle, but if the conversation is not going in the direction you want it to let her know that you are seriously displeased.

It's not her fault at all. Neither of us are happy with this situation. The other issue besides the kids is that the neighbor is a jerk and wakes us up with his dogs all the time. He lets them out right outside our bedroom window at ALL hours of the night. I've been trying to resolve this issue for a few years now, ever since he moved in. He used to let them bark the entire night. He finally stopped doing that because I told him I was going to call the police if he did it again. But he still lets them out at ANY random time throughout the night and they wake me up every time. It doesn't bother my wife as much as me because she's a heavy sleeper. I wasn't able to function at all until I moved into the closet.

It's awful because I can't call the police if he lets the dog bark for five minutes at a time. It's technically legal to let a dog bark for a short period, no matter what time it is. I've talked to him about this dozens of times. He just doesn't care. He owns another house just a few minutes from here that's sitting on 14 acres, and he keeps the dogs here.

We've reached the point where we're just ready to move to get away from this problem. It's just been completely insane. His dogs are so loud, we can hardly even hear the TV when they're out there. He used to leave them out there 24/7 (barking nonstop) for days at a time until I finally threatened to call the police.

 

[millennial_mama]

Having grown up feeling unloved and alone with my parents and sisters, I used to dream of having a man who loves and understands all my feelings and being his one and only true love. I don’t mean to be a feminist by having that desire, I hope? I just want someone to love and accept me and not have to share them.