Moriah pointed out to me that some translations use bishop where others use elders so as much as I hate to invite this chaos, it seems a word study is in order.
What verse are you referring to? There's no reason episkopos and presbuteros should be confused.....Moriah pointed out to me that some translations use bishop where others use elders so as much as I hate to invite this chaos, it seems a word study is in order.
Wouldn't that be the elders? (See post #132 in this thread....)Who puts away the fornicators or immoral?
Oh, Lord, there's a whole 'nother thread in our future....Hey Andrew, I got confused because you keep referencing 1 Tim. 3 in this conversation about elders. I hadn't noticed you used the term bishop at all. Oops.
I just want to make sure I'm understanding what Zec said. If you're saying you're confused because I'm using the passage in 1 Tim 3 to talk about authority in the church while I'm talking about "elders", I get that, and it's an answerable question. If you're saying, though, that there are passages of scripture where one translation uses "elder" to translate the same Greek word that some other translation translates "bishop", I'd like to know about it, because that would be news to me.Hey Andrew, I got confused because you keep referencing 1 Tim. 3 in this conversation about elders. I hadn't noticed you used the term bishop at all. Oops.
Sarah, what translation are you quoting? Many translations give "his children must be "trustworthy" or "faithful" rather than "believers". Just wondering.His children must be believers, so he needs to be leading them the right way.
Moriah pointed out to me that some translations use bishop where others use elders so as much as I hate to invite this chaos, it seems a word study is in order.
And why do you assume that it's two different things? (Answer: Same reason we all do at first, because that's what we've been taught....)Which one is to "rule" as in the same "rule" for husbands?
Slumber, take a look at what I did here and tell me if you could make the jump to thinking in terms of function and purpose instead of office and title.Which I take to mean they are all three descriptive of the same office: Especially in the light that the qualifications of an Overseer (or bishop) in 1 Timothy line up with the qualifications for an Elder in Titus. It also helps explain why no qualifications are really given for a 'pastor' because the job isn't meant to be considered outside of the context of an Elder who is serving as an Overseer.
1 Tim 3 ;1If you're saying, though, that there are passages of scripture where one translation uses "elder" to translate the same Greek word that some other translation translates "bishop", I'd like to know about it, because that would be news to me.
I would think so. This was meant to put more ammunition in your argumentWouldn't that be the elders? (See post #132 in this thread....)
And another feather in the cap of the Presbyterian form of government.This is is my key passage to the 3 terms:
1 Peter 5:1-2
The elders (presbuteros) who are among you I exhort, I who am a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that will be revealed: 2 Shepherd (poimane aka pastor) the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers (episkopos) , not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly
Which I take to mean they are all three descriptive of the same office: Especially in the light that the qualifications of an Overseer (or bishop) in 1 Timothy line up with the qualifications for an Elder in Titus. It also helps explain why no qualifications are really given for a 'pastor' because the job isn't meant to be considered outside of the context of an Elder who is serving as an Overseer.
Who puts away the fornicators or immoral? Who decides? How is it done?
If you look at Jesus' model of leadership, there were all the disciples (hundreds/thousands?), the twelve apostles, then Peter, James, John, and Andrew, and finally Jesus himself.
1 Peter 5:1-2
The elders (presbuteros) who are among you I exhort, I who am a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that will be revealed: 2 Shepherd (poimane aka pastor) the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers (episkopos) , not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly
Which I take to mean they are all three descriptive of the same office: Especially in the light that the qualifications of an Overseer (or bishop) in 1 Timothy line up with the qualifications for an Elder in Titus.
What makes you think Paul was an elder? I don't remember him making this claim anywhere. Although it's interesting to note that there's no way to read this that would allow Christ during His earthly ministry to be an elder either. We might be making too big of a deal out of this elder thing. It really just might be an administrative post.
No, of course not—not in the sense we're using that word here. He had a trans-local assignment that took him out of the run-of-the-mill management of localized communities.