Biblical money

[Keith Martin]

I’m just worried about what Bitcoin morphs into.

It's distinct from all other cryptocurrencies -- most especially the ones that the central banks and central governments will impose on us as replacements to fiat currency. Bitcoin is set up to be immune from being morphed. The thing is that the only chink in the armor is the fact that one is required to enter into it through an exchange (like Coinbase), which can be manipulated by banks and governments. What I'm recommending is to just buy $100 worth through an exchange, set up a crypto wallet (I recommend getting hardware one), transfer your Bitcoin as soon as possible into the wallet. And then just sit on it if you don't want to invest further. If the SHTF occurs, you will then already be in a position to barter with Bitcoin directly between yourself and other Bitcoin owners.

 

[Keith Martin]

Agreed, and probably in that order of priority 1. land 2. metals 3. Bitcoin or perhaps other cryptos

I am wary of ALL other cryptos. The vast majority are just risky gambling ventures, and all of them have back doors controllable by banks or governments.

 

[Keith Martin]

The trouble is that buying land requires saving up many thousands of dollars, and silver is something you can pick up in small quantities (cryptos too). You can buy an ounce of silver if you have around $20.

Yes, but the trouble for the vast number of people is that failure to have land to escape to would, in the event of SHTF, result in being in no position to benefit from one's metals or Bitcoin, because, absent a bug-out location, one can't really fully prepare for marauders no matter how much ammo one stockpiles.

Also in a time like the present when inflation is out of control, mortgaging land becomes attractive, because the payment will never increase, whereas incomes will inflate, effectively incrementally lowering the percentage of expendable income one's devoting to land payoff. I'm not in favor of debt in general, but being stuck in a vulnerable situation would be worse than debt.

Having said that, my research says that, if you have no specific bug-out place to head to, the very best bet is to head straight to West Texas somewhere between about an hour east of El Paso and an hour west of Fort Worth -- no matter what the potential disastrous circumstances, anything from EMP to societal chaos to all-out nuclear war. You can't find a safer place in the country just to go park yourself with a tent or an RV.

 

[Mark C]

I’m just worried about what Bitcoin morphs into.

My own concern is that, if/when the power grid goes down, or even the net, or simply if those without the Mark are shut out, it morphs into random bits.

 

[Mark C]

You can buy an ounce of silver if you have around $20.

Actually, the Real Stuff generally sells at a significant premium to the manipulated (suppressed) 'spot' price. But you may find a local who really wants some fiat...

 

[Mark C]

Unless a community is where you land, you most likely won't be transacting in metals but converting to the accepted currency, which most likely won't be silver.

Says what? History? Scripture?

 

[Keith Martin]

My own concern is that, if/when the power grid goes down, or even the net, or simply if those without the Mark are shut out, it morphs into random bits.

Which is a concern if one predicts that men will never reestablish electricity and/or the internet.

In all my contemplation of this, I fail to envision a realistic scenario in which the ruling elites are going to permit all electricity and internet is permanently destroyed. Temporarily, yes, but it will come back, and all the redundant records will resume their existence.

 

[Mark C]

Which is a concern if one predicts that men will never reestablish electricity and/or the internet.

I agree, in part, Keith, but the real concern I continue to have with cryptos in general, and so far as I know even Bitcoin is not an exception, is the dependence on central clearing (exchanges, wallets) and communications to update the blockchain.

It seems quite plausible to me that "deplorables" (and now MAGA-terrorists as the FBI is tracking them) could be "debanked," first, then "de-walleted" and eventually "de-webbed." A 'mark of the beast' that can't control web access doesn't cut prophetic muster, IMHO.

 

[BiblicalLiteralist]

Says what? History? Scripture?

Says ignorance, you can't eat metals. Most people don't know or understand metals, those who do will simply view you as a target. Those who don't will be to hungry or thirsty to care about your metals. Transacting with it will far and few between and should be done wisely and with discernment.

 

[Keith Martin]

I agree, in part, Keith, but the real concern I continue to have with cryptos in general, and so far as I know even Bitcoin is not an exception, is the dependence on central clearing (exchanges, wallets) and communications to update the blockchain.

It seems quite plausible to me that "deplorables" (and now MAGA-terrorists as the FBI is tracking them) could be "debanked," first, then "de-walleted" and eventually "de-webbed." A 'mark of the beast' that can't control web access doesn't cut prophetic muster, IMHO.

I agree that silver is best and most scriptural, but blockchain updating can only be temporarily interrupted unless electricity and internet are permanently eliminated. If the elite are willing to take things that far, even silver will be superfluous. Silver is best, but Bitcoin is another arrow in the quiver. I do not believe the same is true of any other cryptocurrency -- and I certainly don't consider paper or bank money to be secure.

 

[Bartato]

Actually, the Real Stuff generally sells at a significant premium to the manipulated (suppressed) 'spot' price. But you may find a local who really wants some fiat...

You are right Mark, I probably should have said $25 instead of $20. (and silver prices are constantly fluctuating).

JM Bullion is currently selling British 1 oz silver Britannia's for $23.75 ($1.99 over spot) and $10 bags of 90% coins for $2.99 over spot per oz. My local coin shop prices are generally about the same as JMB. The local shop does sell war nickels and 40% halves at spot, but I wouldn't want a ton of those. I'd always prefer 90% US coins, or 1 oz rounds/bars, and foreign coins like the Maple Leaf, Austrian Philharmonic, and Britannia.

Local shop cash purchases are preferable over online for privacy purposes.

 

[MemeFan]

Also in a time like the present when inflation is out of control, mortgaging land becomes attractive, because the payment will never increase, whereas incomes will inflate, effectively incrementally lowering the percentage of expendable income one's devoting to land payoff. I'm not in favor of debt in general, but being stuck in a vulnerable situation would be worse than debt.

There is no classic inflation for you Americans because Fed is tightening (ie pulling money out for circulation). Raging inflation reguires money printing (ie easing).

Soon will come another wave, but this is due to raising cost of energy.

And regarding Bitcoin, if electricity falls you will have may bigger problem than unable to access Bitcoin.

 

[MemeFan]

And one more thing.

I see people mentioning collapse. It won't bee zombie hordie or anything like than. You should expect South Africa situation unless war breaks out. Gradual degradation of services.

And additional consideration. You are all, probably, hooked on Hobbes BS. Natural reaction isn't domanance fight, but cooperation because cooperation raises you survival odds, for you and everybody else.

Fight everybody against everybody has opposite effect. Precisely reason it's stupid.

 

[Mark C]

Every time in recent history that the money supply has gone into contraction, look what happened.

M2 has just taken one of the biggest, fastest dumps on record.

https://halturnerradioshow.com/images/2023/10/03/Money-Supply-Contracting-10-03-2023_large.jpg

 

[Bartato]

And one more thing.

I see people mentioning collapse. It won't bee zombie hordie or anything like than. You should expect South Africa situation unless war breaks out. Gradual degradation of services.

And additional consideration. You are all, probably, hooked on Hobbes BS. Natural reaction isn't domanance fight, but cooperation because cooperation raises you survival odds, for you and everybody else.

Fight everybody against everybody has opposite effect. Precisely reason it's stupid.

Zombie horde - Mad Max world is unlikely.

South African decline and racial strife, Argentina/Venezuela style economic collapse, and Yugoslavian style civil wars are possibilities.

 

[BiblicalLiteralist]

Zombie horde - Mad Max world is unlikely.

South African decline and racial strife, Argentina/Venezuela style economic collapse, and Yugoslavian style civil wars are possibilities.

Another good reference is the collapse of the USSR, look up Dmitry Orlov. This I think is the most likely scenario we will see, some form of balkanization. Note that the USSR being communist was setup already in a way that cushioned the collapse for most people. As most people were growing some food and community based, something not common in the US anymore.

 

[FollowingHim]

I suppose you could add to that other things to make good use of you land, such as planting trees, building soil fertility, pasture improvement.

Livestock are not just another thing to make use of land with. They are a fundamental unit of wealth. Consider how Job's wealth is described - no mention of the land he owned/controlled, what is listed is:

His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.

Livestock are expensive. They are a store of value, while also multiplying and growing that value.

The trouble is that buying land requires saving up many thousands of dollars, and silver is something you can pick up in small quantities (cryptos too). You can buy an ounce of silver if you have around $20.

While livestock is intermediate in value between silver and land. And you don't need to own land to own livestock, you can lease it. Livestock can often be a stepping-stone towards land, rather than something you get only once you own land. That is the path that many farmers have followed - and that I am presently on myself.

 

[FollowingHim]

I agree that silver is best and most scriptural, but blockchain updating can only be temporarily interrupted unless electricity and internet are permanently eliminated. If the elite are willing to take things that far, even silver will be superfluous. Silver is best, but Bitcoin is another arrow in the quiver. I do not believe the same is true of any other cryptocurrency -- and I certainly don't consider paper or bank money to be secure.

I agree with you that the back-end blockchain will probably remain active, but you can only actually access bitcoin if you have a working computing device and a connection to the internet. Both of which are very fragile and easily lost - computers and phones just don't last that long anyway before dying or becoming obsolete, and can be stolen or destroyed (not just with an EMP). And you could easily lose all access to the internet either for practical reasons or oppression.
Edit: Which means the "elite" will always retain access to their bitcoin, but you may not.

Silver and gold can be stolen or lost, but they don't just cease to exist. They can be crushed and waterlogged and get boiling hot or freezing cold and continue to exist quite fine.

Personally I think that to a degree the promotion of bitcoin has been to take the pressure off gold and silver prices. Much currency that would have been invested in gold or silver has instead gone into bitcoin, which has absorbed this demand and helped to depress the precious metal price. It has helped the same scam keep going for a few more years. It's not all bad, bitcoin certainly has a place as it has practical uses. But I am very cautious about its long-term value as it is too intangible.

Of course, I have been saying how great livestock are, but the fact is they can all die - Job could attest to that. Like bitcoin, they are also more risky than precious metals - I'm not against something just because it can be lost. But livestock compensate for this risk by the fact that they multiply themselves, and are readily barterable with anybody completely off-grid. And, unlike precious metals or bitcoin, you can eat them!

 

[Bartato]

Livestock are not just another thing to make use of land with. They are a fundamental unit of wealth. Consider how Job's wealth is described - no mention of the land he owned/controlled, what is listed is:

Livestock are expensive. They are a store of value, while also multiplying and growing that value.

While livestock is intermediate in value between silver and land. And you don't need to own land to own livestock, you can lease it. Livestock can often be a stepping-stone towards land, rather than something you get only once you own land. That is the path that many farmers have followed - and that I am presently on myself.

I'm not intending to show any disrespect towards livestock as a practical unit of wealth.

They are a key source of wealth.

They are tangible, edible,.productive, and can be easily monetized. They also reproduce. They also require feed, forage, can get sick,. injured, stolen, or lost.

Joel Salatin has written extensively about low cost ways of getting involved producing livestock. I recommend his books.

 

[Bartato]

Another good reference is the collapse of the USSR, look up Dmitry Orlov. This I think is the most likely scenario we will see, some form of balkanization. Note that the USSR being communist was setup already in a way that cushioned the collapse for most people. As most people were growing some food and community based, something not common in the US anymore.

Dimitry Orlav is an excellent resource. I think a USSR style collapse and balkanization is very possible.

As Orlav suggests, it will likely be far worse in the West as most people have high expectations and are very soft. Most people do not produce their own food, and many will lose their homes if they lose their incomes.

Something like the great depression combined with extreme crime, and balkanization is very possible.