Biblical money

[FollowingHim]

Also, the moment Jill White is busted for dealing something illegal, the authorities can immediately go after Bob Smith as a probable possessor of that illegal item.

It's like Tor. Sounds a great idea. But if the authorities set up enough Tor servers (which they undoubtably will have), then everyone wanting to do something illegal on the internet will voluntarily choose to come and do it through the law enforcement authorities own servers. And with a high enough proportion of servers owned by a single entity the algorithm can be broken and the users traced. Hence how crime rings are found on the "dark web". The fact that it sounds good draws people in.

 

[Keith Martin]

This problem was commented massively by Free Staters. Their experts say it won't affect them. Movement is 10 000s should have real nuclear technology experts.

Where do the Free Staters live now?

You need area good for life, not completely safe. If there is danger from invasion, it's because land is marginal.

I agree with you here. One problem with northern New Hampshire is that it's on the very porous (always, not just under Biden) border with French-speaking Canada, which has never in its history been pro-America or pro-freedom -- just pro-France, European, leftism.

 

[The Revolting Man]

This is a patently false statement. I work in this industry and have personally tracked fraud and token flow. Blockchain is literally just a giant ledger and every single token can be tracked from the wallet it is in now through every wallet it has previously been in. If any of those wallets have withdrawn from an exchange it's pretty easy to tie that address to a specific person and boom you can build a complete picture of all that person's transactions.

There are even entire companies that have built businesses providing analytical tools to do this easier. Chainanalysis being one of the prime examples that works with many of the three letter agencies.

In short don't ever think you're transactions are anonymous on a blockchain they simply aren't. Tracking on a blockchain is easy as it is a public facing auditable ledger. The only bastion of anonymity it provides you only exists if you never create a paper trail in the first place. That means not buying tokens on an exchange to populate the account originally and never withdrawing to a fiat currency.

You see, I’ve never understood how anything on a computer couldn’t be hacked somehow.

 

[Keith Martin]

If the identities of both parties can be worked out by tracing back through the blockchain to a transaction they made that revealed their identity (e.g. a purchase of bitcoin using a credit card), then it provides the information that Bob Smith paid Jill White 0.56 bitcoin for something. That's a lot of information. If Jill White is in the business of selling one particular product usually with bitcoin, then that is a very strong indication that Bob Smith probably bought that specific product.

Yeah, it's an indication, but one has to keep this in perspective: that's a lot of effort to go to in order to identify a supposedly-unacceptable transaction by two nobodies -- and if they're not nobodies, numerous other less-effortful avenues are available to nail them.

Everyone, please know that I don't think Bitcoin is infallible. My Bitcoin is the first thing I'm going to jettison, perhaps even before SHTF, because I'm quite willing to swap it out to buy land and to make improvements on the land.

 

[Keith Martin]

Also, the moment Jill White is busted for dealing something illegal, the authorities can immediately go after Bob Smith as a probable possessor of that illegal item.

It's like Tor. Sounds a great idea. But if the authorities set up enough Tor servers (which they undoubtably will have), then everyone wanting to do something illegal on the internet will voluntarily choose to come and do it through the law enforcement authorities own servers. And with a high enough proportion of servers owned by a single entity the algorithm can be broken and the users traced. Hence how crime rings are found on the "dark web". The fact that it sounds good draws people in.

No one needs Bitcoin to buy illegal items. This is mostly a distraction -- the whole thing about the dark web.

 

[Keith Martin]

You see, I’ve never understood how anything on a computer couldn’t be hacked somehow.

Of course it can, but don't forget that even gold and silver can be 'hacked;' the Fed did so during the Depression, confiscating both by seizing safety deposit boxes and going door-to-door. Then the ungovernableness comes into play, @The Revolting Man, but every single thing required to get around loss of internet, hackability and even threats of asset seizures requires that one already have in place a community of people one can trust to not only barter with but collectively have what one needs.

Most of us do not have that in place, and in that sense we're just Dreamers.

 

[Mark C]

Of course it can, but don't forget that even gold and silver can be 'hacked;' the Fed did so during the Depression, confiscating both by seizing safety deposit boxes and going door-to-door.

There was much more to the gold theft under the Tyrant FDR: (This, indeed, has been the subject of entire shows on the issues.)

- Circulating gold coins that were "fungible" were stolen. But, in a Klintonesque fashion. Folks were paid $20 in fiat, plus a few soon-to-be-worth-less pennies for each gold double-eagle. Thus, not "theft," but just an involuntary exchange. Later, FDR devalued what was left of those 'savings' by 40%, raising the official 'price' of newly-liberated gold from $20 to $35. But not for Americans. (Insiders, as always, beat the clock...)

- People trusting [gullible] enough to have their gold coins in "safe" (aargh!) deposit boxes got the shaft. They were NOT allowed entry without a Reveneeuer at their side, who then "exchanged" whatever the peons were not allowed to possess. (Regulated banks are not 'private.') Expect that to happen again.

- Grannie's gold wedding band , OTOH, was safe. A 'taking' of NON-fungible (essentially, "one is like another") items would've required too much time in court. (Now, under the BidenFuhrer, a sham court won't be such a barrier.) Likewise, "collectible" coins (having "numismatic" value) were 'non-confiscatable." They still carry a premium today.

I am not aware of any "door-to-door" searches. Americans were still largely armed in those days, and they're'd be more stories of dead agents of the State. They DID, however, claim that USE of those coins was "criminal," and sought to scare people out of using them for alternative (black) markets. Some clearly did, and did well for it, but carefully. When it's "life" versus the "Mark of the Beast," others will do likewise.

 

[Bartato]

The main advantage I see of crypto is the ability to cross borders or other inspections without having a physical item that can be seized.

Never forget that our true treasure and source of security is God Himself.

I think a lot of us have a tendency towards paranoia. It is merited in the sense that the rulers of this world really do conspire to do evil (Psalm 2).

On the other hand, our Father in Heaven laughs at them, and the Son will dash them (and not us who belong to Him) to pieces.

Ultimately, "Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.".

We have to fear God, and no one else as Matthew 10:28 tells us.

I think I (and perhaps some of you) sometimes forget that and worry too much.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Of course it can, but don't forget that even gold and silver can be 'hacked;' the Fed did so during the Depression, confiscating both by seizing safety deposit boxes and going door-to-door. Then the ungovernableness comes into play, @The Revolting Man, but every single thing required to get around loss of internet, hackability and even threats of asset seizures requires that one already have in place a community of people one can trust to not only barter with but collectively have what one needs.

Most of us do not have that in place, and in that sense we're just Dreamers.

And it certainly make sense to be diversified.

 

[Keith Martin]

The main advantage I see of crypto is the ability to cross borders or other inspections without having a physical item that can be seized.

Never forget that our true treasure and source of security is God Himself.

I think a lot of us have a tendency towards paranoia. It is merited in the sense that the rulers of this world really do conspire to do evil (Psalm 2).

On the other hand, our Father in Heaven laughs at them, and the Son will dash them (and not us who belong to Him) to pieces.

Ultimately, "Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.".

We have to fear God, and no one else as Matthew 10:28 tells us.

I think I (and perhaps some of you) sometimes forget that and worry too much.

Yes, but sometimes the most humble way we can trust in Him is to use the talents He provides us to keep our heads on a swivel and prepare for the worst.

 

[Bartato]

Yes, but sometimes the most humble way we can trust in Him is to use the talents He provides us to keep our heads on a swivel and prepare for the worst.

Yes, we are supposed to be wise and prudent stewards of everything the Lord has entrusted to us.

We must hold to both of the passages quoted below.

"A prudent man foresees evil and hides himself, But the simple pass on and are punished." (Prov. 23:3)

"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes?" (Matthew 6:25)

I think we are all trying to do both.

 

[MemeFan]

Where do the Free Staters live now?

I have found people living in all parts except coast.

I agree with you here. One problem with northern New Hampshire is that it's on the very porous (always, not just under Biden) border with French-speaking Canada, which has never in its history been pro-America or pro-freedom -- just pro-France, European, leftism.

Not that important, not when state is getting more libertarian.

Pourous borders in California means more criminals in, but same won't happen in NH. They aren't welcome there.

 

[MemeFan]

There is important thing not mentioned in "area where to like discussion".

Local culture with regard to authority. How much is state/politicians accepted as source of rules/morality? Here Mormoms are in great advantage. They will simply run society through their church. Since membership is voluntary, rulership must be more wise, leave people alone and push cooperation instead of extraction.

Most politicians are unable to leave extractive/controlling mindset.

 

[BiblicalLiteralist]

So I have been thinking about how to use metals and came to the conclusion of collateral and barter vs selling. What other ways can metals be used? It occurs to me you never want to actually lose possession of your metals. Collateral for a loan seems like the most secure way to retain control of your assets, but this can apply also to other assets of value beyond bare metals, such as jewelery, artwork, collector items.

 

[Bartato]

So I have been thinking about how to use metals and came to the conclusion of collateral and barter vs selling. What other ways can metals be used? It occurs to me you never want to actually lose possession of your metals. Collateral for a loan seems like the most secure way to retain control of your assets, but this can apply also to other assets of value beyond bare metals, such as jewelery, artwork, collector items.

The collateral thing makes a lot of sense, in that it allows you to keep possession of your money/metals.

Money is meant to be a medium of exchange, so I think it is ok to lose and gain possession of metals, as you either buy or sell goods and services. If you produce more than you use, you should gradually add to your metal supply.

Small denomination silver makes the most sense for day to day sales and purchases. "Junk silver", 40% halves, 35% war nickels, and one ounce rounds and coins fit this. Gold coins and larger denomination silver would be used for larger purchases.

 

[Mark C]

So I have been thinking about how to use metals and came to the conclusion of collateral and barter vs selling. What other ways can metals be used? It occurs to me you never want to actually lose possession of your metals.

The same could be said of MOST things that are valuable and fungible enough to serve as a means of widespread exchange.

The question I have pondered for a LONG time is Gresham's Law; that bad money drives out good.

IOW, if people will accept crap (paper) in exchange for something real - why use silver? It's why real silver coins largely disappeared so rapidly after LBJ's anti-constitutional coup in 1965,

So the trick is to get it BACK in circulation. (People like Salinas in Mexico have written about the issue for years.)

I suggest the idea is to get it started locally. Encourage friends and neighbors to use small denominations (dimes and quarters, 1964 or before) for things like trading (the correct word!) for milk and eggs, and garden produce. Once there's enough in the area, the process can perpetuate through the coming fiat collapse - hopefully. Eventually land sales, too (it turns out - look at the common law - many are STILL actually 'sold' for at least a silver imitation/claim: "$100 plus OVC")

I have for a number of years encourage trades for silver with local processionals - chiropractors, dentists, plumbers, hay vendors - with some success. Even used cars. If they don't have silver, offer to trade for 'real money' at a discount to paper, and then allow them to "buy it back," after the fact, either way. That way, at least the learning curve is started.

 

[Mark C]

If you produce more than you use, you should gradually add to your metal supply. (aka: 'junk silver'}

Agreed. Junk silver is (relatively) dirt cheap - suppressed (even subsidized) in price by crooks who sell paper short to depress the price, temporarily.

If you think you might run low - BUY MORE. EVERYBODY wins that way.

 

[Bartato]

Agreed. Junk silver is (relatively) dirt cheap - suppressed (even subsidized) in price by crooks who sell paper short to depress the price, temporarily.

If you think you might run low - BUY MORE. EVERYBODY wins that way.

The trouble with the 90% silver that I have is that most of my stack is in Washington quarters, Roosevelt dimes, and some Kennedy 64 halves. These all look the same as later garbage coins at first glance. I wish I had more Liberty quarters, Mercury dimes, and Franklin halves. Oh well . Maybe it is nice to not have many coins with pagan dietys on them.

 

[Mark C]

The trouble with the 90% silver that I have is that most of my stack is in Washington quarters, Roosevelt dimes, and some Kennedy 64 halves. These all look the same as later garbage coins at first glance. I wish I had more Liberty quarters, Mercury dimes, and Franklin halves. Oh well . Maybe it is nice to not have many coins with pagan dietys on them.

Honestly, that won't matter for long.

ANYONE who handles them will learn - rapidly - to tell the Real from the Fake.

Check the date, for the obvious. But - just drop one on a concrete floor or solid table. The Real one will SOUND real, and "ring" - whereas pot metal dimes and quarters sound like just what they are: worth-less.

 

[MeganC]

So I have been thinking about how to use metals and came to the conclusion of collateral and barter vs selling. What other ways can metals be used? It occurs to me you never want to actually lose possession of your metals. Collateral for a loan seems like the most secure way to retain control of your assets, but this can apply also to other assets of value beyond bare metals, such as jewelery, artwork, collector items.

Don't forget about lead and brass.