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Biblical Patriarchy vs. Predators
- Thread starter NS4Liberty
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So I'm going to put this in impolite terms.
Many of us men here want to marry women who haven't been ran through. So can anyone point us to a 23 year old woman who hasn't been ran through? If you can, im sure most of us wouldn't have any problem marrying her.
The problem is where are those 23 year olds? Or 20 year olds? Safe to say they probably aren't in the States.
So if purity is high on our list, and submissiveness, and we recognize that it becomes harder to pair bond the more partners a woman has had and that all people get more set in their ways with time -- men draw logical conclusions that its highly unlikely we'll find a pure, young woman past her teens (20 and up).
And despite how others feel about it, we want what we want. Where there is no law, there is no sin. Feelings aren't facts.
If I were to marry another woman and our age difference made other people uncomfortable, I wouldn't give a d*mn. That's their business. I'm looking to be fruitful and multiply. If she's fertile and she's willing and her father is willing, why would I care what anyone else thinks who isn't going to be apart of my day to day family life?
The bigger picture is this is legacy and tribe we're after. The reason a pure and undefiled woman is desirable is because she is easier to be taught if she has a teachable spirit, and there's less to unlearn. Which means family growth is more readily accomplished in all areas. I want her to raise righteous seed for me as their first line teacher. I dont need all the fuss and foolishness because it slows down the mission.
Many of us men here want to marry women who haven't been ran through. So can anyone point us to a 23 year old woman who hasn't been ran through? If you can, im sure most of us wouldn't have any problem marrying her.
The problem is where are those 23 year olds? Or 20 year olds? Safe to say they probably aren't in the States.
So if purity is high on our list, and submissiveness, and we recognize that it becomes harder to pair bond the more partners a woman has had and that all people get more set in their ways with time -- men draw logical conclusions that its highly unlikely we'll find a pure, young woman past her teens (20 and up).
And despite how others feel about it, we want what we want. Where there is no law, there is no sin. Feelings aren't facts.
If I were to marry another woman and our age difference made other people uncomfortable, I wouldn't give a d*mn. That's their business. I'm looking to be fruitful and multiply. If she's fertile and she's willing and her father is willing, why would I care what anyone else thinks who isn't going to be apart of my day to day family life?
The bigger picture is this is legacy and tribe we're after. The reason a pure and undefiled woman is desirable is because she is easier to be taught if she has a teachable spirit, and there's less to unlearn. Which means family growth is more readily accomplished in all areas. I want her to raise righteous seed for me as their first line teacher. I dont need all the fuss and foolishness because it slows down the mission.
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Ah, but if you did all that, you would no longer have our current culture! You'd be back to:
My great grandmother married at 14, (about 100 years ago) and had a great life. In an agrarian society, early marriage makes more sense.
Agrarian society in general makes more sense.
This is exactly what the world hates. What a BEAUTIFUL family.
This is singer Marques Houston and his wife and daughter. They married when she was 19 and he was 39. They met when she was 17 through church affiliations.
I see no problem with this, I applaud it. He gets heat for this constantly, but at the end of the day he has a beautiful family and they all look happy. End of story.
I expect most people criticising him are just jealous.
The traditional life prepared a young woman for marriage. Back in the day, a fifteen year old knew how to take care of her younger siblings, milk cows, make butter and cheese, bake bread, grow gardens, sew, mend, etc.
Now, the average 40 year old can't do half of that.
My own grandmother was a school teacher at 17 years of age back in rural South Dakota in the 1930s.
We have a family friend that is 18, just graduated (homeschooled), and is already engaged to be married (to a man just a couple years older than herself).
She will be fine. She has been helping her mom with her five younger brothers her whole life. The last time these friends invited my wife and I over for dinner, the daughter prepared everything (and served it on her own china). She knows what she is doing.
Now, the average 40 year old can't do half of that.
My own grandmother was a school teacher at 17 years of age back in rural South Dakota in the 1930s.
We have a family friend that is 18, just graduated (homeschooled), and is already engaged to be married (to a man just a couple years older than herself).
She will be fine. She has been helping her mom with her five younger brothers her whole life. The last time these friends invited my wife and I over for dinner, the daughter prepared everything (and served it on her own china). She knows what she is doing.
That’s great, for that one guy.
Most 16 year olds barely know how to make mac and cheese, and they really don’t know a lick more at 26. So why wait until they are 21?
And that is a bit of a quandary, isn't it? Especially for poly because if a woman is not damaged then poly isn't going to be a choice for her.
Aside from first wives, second wives always have a reason why they chose this life and it's usually because the 'normal' life damaged them.
Unless your name is Solomon, your father was David, and your income is 666 talents of gold a year
No one here meets that
Pretty, educated, and devout eighteen year old virgins from good families like my friend's daughter aren't normally looking at fifty year old married men.
I do have some friends that married at 50 and 26, have several children and are happily married after more than twenty years. It is a mono marriage, and the man looks and has the vigor of a man twenty years younger.
Now, this is of course not always true, but it often is and is a great observation. One perhaps drawn from experience? Every little Anglo girl grows up being taught and dreaming of the romantic marriage. This is her hope and what she will hold out for and fight others for. Pride and fear do a lot to stand in the way of her knowing or acknowledging any other possibility. It often is only those whose pride has been broken and whose scales have fallen from their eyes who can see the Lord and understand His wisdom. Unless she is brought up in the house of a man who can teach her these things from her youth, she is more than likely destined for a life of ignorance and fear.
I knew a very happy couple with a 30 yr age gap. She was a single mom and valued his maturity and stability. They had a daughter together. What I think is kinda neat is that the son raised by Cliff valued him as a father and followed in his footsteps. He found three boys without a dad in the picture and stepped up.
My hubby was thinking about our sons. Our oldest had a fiance, second has other prospects. My sisterwife wasn't interested in the men her age. It was only when that was clear that he ventured to ask her out.
Since 15 year old girls get into sexual relationships all the time with men that are offering them nothing but a chance at getting knocked up, I don't think marriage and stability is worse. I wasn't ready for any relationship before 20, and I would never want to rush anyone into a commitment. I do think it is a personal matter though, and k ow many couples that chose each other young. Some waited for "marriage" and some did the fun thing. If they succeed at a pair bond and really become one they will likely make it. Sadly a lot of casual relationships tend to seriously compromise that ability.
I think there is truth to that. Unless she is raised to know and understand and accept poly, the likelihood is she won't break from her romantic monogamy ideal, especially in her youth with the options she has in abundance.
Which is why wise fathers are the true heroes here. Nonetheless, I think as Yah opens eyes, there are the rare humble ones out there who will examine poly practically when presented with it, and decide. I think this is more likely with traditional young women in non-western cultures (shout out to the passport bros!). I dont hold out high hopes for subsequent wives from the States unless they're raised in biblical Truth by fathers here or those like the fathers in this community.
I like to keep my expectations realistic. Marriages like @MeganC bring hope for whats possible and the fruit that goes along with it. May blessings continue to rain on your family and to all the fathers in polygyny raising righteous seed!!!
Grooming.
The solution to this is not grooming.
Statically many people aren't going to find many things they desire in our current culture. The solution to this is not doing something that is morally irreprehensible.
Is it not important that the "woman" makes this choice willingly? You all seem to be looking at this from a positive, me me me perspective. What happens with this 15 year old girl turns 25, realizes she was most likely taken advantage of because she couldn't have possibly been mature enough to come to these conclusions on her own, hates you, divorces you and leaves with your children.
There are differences between an 18 year old and a 15 year old.
Well if we're using impolite terms and "feelings aren't fact" i'll say what i've really been thinking this entire time-
The average age for puberty in the US is 13 years old.
The majority of 15 year old girls have only had their period for two years, that's not long enough to know your body. For goodness sake typical 15 year olds are still learning basic hygiene. Why anyone would want to stick their d*ck in that or how they can even find it remotely sexually appealing blows my f*cking mind.
Have you ever seen a 15 year old girl developing? Seriously? She doesn't look similar to a grown woman, she doesn't sound like a grown woman, she doesn't think like a grown woman. HOW can that be sexually appealing. God gave ya'll a d*ck and a brain for a reason, try using the one on your head sometimes.
A 15 year old is also still developing both physically and mentally.
A girl's breasts aren't fully developed until she's 17-18 years old...
The average weight for a 15 year old girl is 110lbs compared to the average weight for a 50 year old man being 200lbs.
These among many other reasons are why under absolutely no circumstance will I ever be convinced that it's ok for an adult, 200lb man with 50 years life experience to pound out a 110lb, 15 year old girl that is still in the process of learning about her body and mind which still aren't even fully devolved yet. All under the guise of saving her from high school boys
Give me a freakin break! I'm shocked that I even have to explain the depravity of this in such depth to begin with.
Yeah most of us want what we want without dealing with the all of the extra fuss, foolish and baggage that comes along with it however it doesn't always work that way, suck-it-up buttercup, find another way to accomplish what you want out of life, something that hopefully doesn't involve taking advantage of someone else's naivety.
Your mission is not a 15 year old girl's responsibility.
These are separate issues that deserve their own discussion. Though she shouldn't be doing any of these things.
The issue of 15 year olds partaking in life altering things such as abortion, hormone suppressants, being groomed into a lesbian affair etc. shouldn't be handled by the acceptance of even more life altering decisions, such as marriage and children that she equally isn't ready for.
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@LovesDogs, as you had specifically said you would not comment further, I had refrained from responding to your earlier posts as I believed you did not want to be drawn back into the discussion. However, since you're back, I did have a question I wanted to ask you.
Why?
At what age is a woman ready for marriage?
Why?
I have no desire to agitate anyone here but I am wondering what age you all think Mary was when she conceived the Christ Child by the power of the Holy Spirit (cf. Luke 1:35)?
Where is the age stipulation in e.g. 1 Cor. 7:9? If people have raging passions, God prescribes marriage as the outlet.
Totally off the planet but Adam and Eve were only a day old when God told them to make babies.
As many a young woman here has told me, age is just a number.
Where is the age stipulation in e.g. 1 Cor. 7:9? If people have raging passions, God prescribes marriage as the outlet.
Totally off the planet but Adam and Eve were only a day old when God told them to make babies.
As many a young woman here has told me, age is just a number.Most likely when it was appropriate for the time? If i'm missing something please explain.
"But if they cannot control/contain themselves, let them be married" Doesn't state let them be married at whatever age they begin experiencing lust, lots of us have urges that we don't act on. Also are we just going to ignore Paul also stating it was good to be unmarried?
Remaining unmarried is not a problem if a person is confident he or she will always control the passions. The problems common in many places now are the result of teenagers not controlling their passions.
I just don't think we should be deciding if a 15 year old is going to be controlling their passions enough for our liking. Let them decide for themselves later on since both choices are ok, what's the rush to influence?
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I am in full agreement with you there; both choices are OK and they can decide. However, my concern is twofold: All too many teenagers (and older) are not controlling their passions, and God specifically commands marriage as the outlet for those very passions. The words, let them marry, are a command in the Greek text and there isn't an alternative given. Let the people decide; self control (celibacy) or marriage.
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