Biblically speaking. If a man/household needs a first wife's outside income, is the husband right in seeking additional wives?

[LDremoved]

These verses state that a man should provide for his household through work.

1 Timothy 5:8 "But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

Proverbs 13:22 "A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children, but the sinner's wealth is laid up for the righteous."

2 Thessalonians 3:10 "For even when were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work, but busybodies. Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living. As for you, Brothers, do not grow weary in doing good."

2 Corinthians 9:10 "He who supplies the seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed for sowing and increase the harvest of your righteousness. You will be enriched in every way to be generous in every way, which through us will provide thanksgiving to God."

Among others.

What peeked my interest in this is the following-

Exodus 21:10 "If he takes an additional wife, he must not reduce the food, clothing, or marital rights of the first wife."

If a household needs a first wife's additional outside income to support the family. Technically the man is not providing enough.

Also these verses imply that women should work within the household-

1 Timothy 5:13 “They also learn to waste their time in going around from house to house; but even worse, they learn to be gossips and busybodies talking of things they should not. So I would prefer that the younger widows get married, have children, and take care of their homes, so as to give our enemies no chance of speaking evil of us. For some widows have already turned away to follow Satan.”

Titus 2:3-5 “In the same way instruct the older women to behave as women should who live a holy life. They must not be slanderers or slaves to wine. They must teach what is good, in order to train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, and to be good housewives who submit themselves to their husbands, so that no one will speak evil of the message that comes from God.”

However these reference working outside of the household, sort of...

Proverbs 31:12 “She brings him good, not harm, all the days of her life. She selects wool and flax and works with eager hands. She is like the merchant ships, bringing her food from afar. She gets up while it is still night; she provides food for her family and portions for her female servants. She considers a field and buys it; out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.”

Proverbs 31:18 “She perceives that her merchandise is profitable. Her lamp does not go out at night.”

Proverbs 31:24 “She makes linen garments and sells them; she delivers sashes to the merchant.”

I'm genuinely curious about what i'm misunderstanding? Also I am not trying to start another submission debate lol i've had enough of that. However I do have another question. I've seen others reference that women should submit to men because men provide for the household. If a woman needs to work outside of the household, then is he holding up his end of the bargain?

 

[steve]

I don’t see a mandate in scripture, I believe that most of those verses were describing cultural norms.
Each family is different and has its own needs and challenges.

I do have a different take on Proverbs 31 than pretty much everyone else, though.
Some believe that Solomon wrote it in honor of his own mother. She was Queen Bathsheba, her family had absolutely zero need for her income. Plus it was physically impossible for anyone to have done all that is ascribed to her, but she could have supervised all of it and it would be credited as her achievement.
So why did she do it all? Ministry, it was 100% ministry.
She bought the products that women made in one area (home based business) and resold them in another local where they weren’t otherwise available.
To understand her real estate business you have to start with the fact that any land that was sold automatically reverted back to the sellers family on the Jubilee year. So in essence, the only value that it had was its rental value for the years remaining until the Jubilee year. Why would they sell? Hard times for whatever reason in that family. Why would another buy it? To increase their production for the years remaining.
And here is the absolute coolest part, why did she plant a vineyard? It takes years before a vineyard is profitable. Because when the family received the property back it had about the highest value possible. They sold bare land and got back a business that was set up and producing income.
Everything that she did ministered to the community.

Personally, I am the income producer in our family and my wives operate home based ministries. One of the ministries was intended to be an income producer, but it has been a mostly self supporting ministry. No shame in that game.
According to the vision that I have for my family, my family will continue to grow. Anyone coming in will need to generate a modicum of income to offset expenses.
So yes, I definitely lean towards husband provider, but not at all in a legalistic manner.

 

[primrose]

These are good questions and I’m curious to see the responses. How a husband provides for his family and his ability to provide for potentially more is a smart consideration. Whether a wife works as a requirement or as an option is important too. In my home, my husband is the provider. I do work though not depended on. I also think it matters how long a wife’s away from the home because that affects the family regardless of income. Biblically, the Proverbs 31 woman works outside the home and which I interpret as it is okay. It is evident that her family remains her main focus which is significant.

 

[steve]

I've seen others reference that women should submit to men because men provide for the household. If a woman needs to work outside of the household, then is he holding up his end of the bargain?

I don’t see those two concepts as mutually exclusive.

Edit: In my opinion the husband is responsible for the provision of the household, but that is not the same thing as being responsible to bring in every dollar that the household needs.
The opposite of being responsible for the provision of the household is a husband that runs up unnecessary debt that then requires the wife or wives to rescue the finances through working outside of the home, with the added expenses that stem from that. Daycare, another car payment because she has to have something dependable in order to keep her job, professional clothing, etc.

 

[primrose]

I don’t see a mandate in scripture, I believe that most of those verses were describing cultural norms.
Each family is different and has its own needs and challenges.

I do have a different take on Proverbs 31 than pretty much everyone else, though.
Some believe that Solomon wrote it in honor of his own mother. She was Queen Bathsheba, her family had absolutely zero need for her income. Plus it was physically impossible for anyone to have done all that is ascribed to her, but she could have supervised all of it and it would be credited as her achievement.
So why did she do it all? Ministry, it was 100% ministry.
She bought the products that women made in one area (home based business) and resold them in another local where they weren’t otherwise available.
To understand her real estate business you have to start with the fact that any land that was sold automatically reverted back to the sellers family on the Jubilee year. So in essence, the only value that it had was its rental value for the years remaining until the Jubilee year. Why would they sell? Hard times for whatever reason in that family. Why would another buy it? To increase their production for the years remaining.
And here is the absolute coolest part, why did she plant a vineyard? It takes years before a vineyard is profitable. Because when the family received the property back it had about the highest value possible. They sold bare land and got back a business that was set up and producing income.
Everything that she did ministered to the community.

Personally, I am the income producer in our family and my wives operate home based ministries. One of the ministries was intended to be an income producer, but it has been a mostly self supporting ministry. No shame in that game.
According to my vision, my family will continue to grow and anyone coming in will need to generate a modicum of income to offset expenses.
So yes, I definitely lean towards husband provider, but not at all in a legalistic manner.

Love this! Seeing any work, inside or outside the home as a ministry is a great mindset

 

[FollowingHim]

In my opinion the husband is responsible for the provision of the household, but that is not the same thing as being responsible to bring in every dollar that the household needs.

Exactly. He's the head, the leader, the one who organises what everyone does.

I've seen others reference that women should submit to men because men provide for the household.

What about if he breaks his legs and can't work, does she get to not submit to him then?

The idea that a man will work outside of the home, bringing in money, is a very modern idea that is how Western society has worked since the industrial revolution. But more historically "normal" would be a subsistence farming family. In such a family, everybody works (according to their abilities), and little money changes hands, the majority of what the family needs being produced on the farm. For the bit of trade that is necessary off the farm, some produce may be sold, some home industry may be done (e.g. a wife might produce clothing for sale), and some family members may take seasonal opportunities for short-term work (e.g. harvesting on a neighbouring property) - but monetary work is secondary. In such a situation, the husband would spend the vast majority of his time at home, not bringing in an "income" - but would still be the head.

A wife is to submit to her husband, not because he is providing for the household, but simply because she is commanded to submit to her husband. Simply because he is the appointed leader of the household. It's not a privilege he has to earn, it's a job he is assigned from the start (and will, inevitably, fail at sometimes because he is human, without those occasional failures meaning he is no longer the head).

 

[frederick]

In my opinion the husband is responsible for the provision of the household, but that is not the same thing as being responsible to bring in every dollar that the household needs.

I agree completely and second the perspective Samuel has added here.

The idea that a man will work outside of the home, bringing in money, is a very modern idea that is how Western society has worked since the industrial revolution. But more historically "normal" would be a subsistence farming family.

Too often we forget the historic situations that surround the biblical record and read our own culture into the text - which inevitably creates misunderstandings.

If a household needs a first wife's additional outside income to support the family. Technically the man is not providing enough.

Is it a real 'need' or just a want? Food, water, clothing, and shelter are the things we need but we desire oh so much more and are consumed with acquiring it all. When each one is doing their part, families can be very productive while being economical but it doesn't necessarily mean getting more stuff or having more money to spend. Adding someone with specific additional skills may very well help fill a need for the family and benefit all concerned.

 

[Sunflower]

The way that I view this is…. My husband is not only MY head, but head of the house. He makes the decision that are best for the house. Myself and his other wives are HIS helpmeets. He decides what our “duties” to help the household will be and they will be different for each of us because we all have different skills.

For example, I do work full time outside of the house while my other two sister wives stay home. They both help the house run smooth and homeschool the kids. I have always worked and thus have good work experience/knowledge to get a decent paying job. So me working outside the home helps the whole house. Is this ideal? No, but does it help? Yes and I am glad to be of service in this way and help my family.

We have been blessed with jobs that allow both my husband and myself to be home more which makes it a lot better. My husband works from home all but one day a week. I only work a few hours on Friday so being able to be home more even though we still work makes it a lot easier when we do have to be away. Ultimately the goal is to work from home which we continue to look into/try, but until then we continue.

And by me working I have never not once thought, oh man my husband is not providing enough. I actually had to talk him into letting me work at first lol. I have a server mentality, I love to serve, I love to be of service and help anyones life/job to be a little easier. Working not only allows me to serve my husband and our house/family, but it also allows me to apply skills/smarts that I have acquired in a way that is beneficial. So no I don’t view it as he isn’t providing enough I’ve always viewed it as what can I do to better help you and our family? How can I be of service to you? For me that includes working, for my other sister wives it’s different because again we are all different with different attributes.

 

[LDremoved]

I don’t see a mandate in scripture, I believe that most of those verses were describing cultural norms.
Each family is different and has its own needs and challenges.

I do have a different take on Proverbs 31 than pretty much everyone else, though.
Some believe that Solomon wrote it in honor of his own mother. She was Queen Bathsheba, her family had absolutely zero need for her income. Plus it was physically impossible for anyone to have done all that is ascribed to her, but she could have supervised all of it and it would be credited as her achievement.
So why did she do it all? Ministry, it was 100% ministry.
She bought the products that women made in one area (home based business) and resold them in another local where they weren’t otherwise available.
To understand her real estate business you have to start with the fact that any land that was sold automatically reverted back to the sellers family on the Jubilee year. So in essence, the only value that it had was its rental value for the years remaining until the Jubilee year. Why would they sell? Hard times for whatever reason in that family. Why would another buy it? To increase their production for the years remaining.
And here is the absolute coolest part, why did she plant a vineyard? It takes years before a vineyard is profitable. Because when the family received the property back it had about the highest value possible. They sold bare land and got back a business that was set up and producing income.
Everything that she did ministered to the community.

Thank you! This helps clear up my contradiction question.

 

[LDremoved]

These are good questions and I’m curious to see the responses. How a husband provides for his family and his ability to provide for potentially more is a smart consideration. Whether a wife works as a requirement or as an option is important too. In my home, my husband is the provider. I do work though not depended on. I also think it matters how long a wife’s away from the home because that affects the family regardless of income. Biblically, the Proverbs 31 woman works outside the home and which I interpret as it is okay. It is evident that her family remains her main focus which is significant.

I think that sums it up as well. I didn't see anything that forbid women working outside of the home but there is a lot of emphasis on putting your family/home first. I'm still curious about my Polygamy question though. If a woman has to provide a portion of her own food and clothing by working outside of the household. Then why does a man think he's in a position to provide for more wives? Since he's not technically providing enough.

 

[steve]

I think that sums it up as well. I didn't see anything that forbid women working outside of the home but there is a lot of emphasis on putting your family/home first. I'm still curious about my Polygamy question though. If a woman has to provide a portion of her own food and clothing by working outside of the household. Then why does a man think he's in a position to provide for more wives? Since he's not technically providing enough.

Because it is a technicality.
If she decides that family M is a better choice than family C, even though it would require her to bring in income, then that is her choice.
Not every family is family A, multimillionaire and perfect spiritual credentials.

 

[LDremoved]

Exactly. He's the head, the leader, the one who organises what everyone does.

What about if he breaks his legs and can't work, does she get to not submit to him then?

The idea that a man will work outside of the home, bringing in money, is a very modern idea that is how Western society has worked since the industrial revolution. But more historically "normal" would be a subsistence farming family. In such a family, everybody works (according to their abilities), and little money changes hands, the majority of what the family needs being produced on the farm. For the bit of trade that is necessary off the farm, some produce may be sold, some home industry may be done (e.g. a wife might produce clothing for sale), and some family members may take seasonal opportunities for short-term work (e.g. harvesting on a neighbouring property) - but monetary work is secondary. In such a situation, the husband would spend the vast majority of his time at home, not bringing in an "income" - but would still be the head.

A wife is to submit to her husband, not because he is providing for the household, but simply because she is commanded to submit to her husband. Simply because he is the appointed leader of the household. It's not a privilege he has to earn, it's a job he is assigned from the start (and will, inevitably, fail at sometimes because he is human, without those occasional failures meaning he is no longer the head).

I'm still trying to figure out how to quote other people properly on this site. I'm like a 90 year old woman on a computer.

To answer your question. I do think she should still submit if he broke his legs because I would also expect her husband to still provide for his wife if she were in similar circumstances.

Thank you! Your answer clears up some of my other questions as well.

I'm still curious your take on my Polygamy question though. Is a man right in seeking additional wives if he needs a first wife's income to provide food and clothing?

 

[LDremoved]

Is it a real 'need' or just a want? Food, water, clothing, and shelter are the things we need but we desire oh so much more and are consumed with acquiring it all. When each one is doing their part, families can be very productive while being economical but it doesn't necessarily mean getting more stuff or having more money to spend. Adding someone with specific additional skills may very well help fill a need for the family and benefit all concerned

Yes definitely, however Biblically speaking if a man can't provide the basic needs (when I say needs, I mean food and clothing) without the first wife's help then should he be seeking additional wives?

 

[LDremoved]

The way that I view this is…. My husband is not only MY head, but head of the house. He makes the decision that are best for the house. Myself and his other wives are HIS helpmeets. He decides what our “duties” to help the household will be and they will be different for each of us because we all have different skills.

For example, I do work full time outside of the house while my other two sister wives stay home. They both help the house run smooth and homeschool the kids. I have always worked and thus have good work experience/knowledge to get a decent paying job. So me working outside the home helps the whole house. Is this ideal? No, but does it help? Yes and I am glad to be of service in this way and help my family.

We have been blessed with jobs that allow both my husband and myself to be home more which makes it a lot better. My husband works from home all but one day a week. I only work a few hours on Friday so being able to be home more even though we still work makes it a lot easier when we do have to be away. Ultimately the goal is to work from home which we continue to look into/try, but until then we continue.

And by me working I have never not once thought, oh man my husband is not providing enough. I actually had to talk him into letting me work at first lol. I have a server mentality, I love to serve, I love to be of service and help anyones life/job to be a little easier. Working not only allows me to serve my husband and our house/family, but it also allows me to apply skills/smarts that I have acquired in a way that is beneficial. So no I don’t view it as he isn’t providing enough I’ve always viewed it as what can I do to better help you and our family? How can I be of service to you? For me that includes working, for my other sister wives it’s different because again we are all different with different attributes.

Definitely how I would personally view it as well, I love this!

 

[primrose]

I think that sums it up as well. I didn't see anything that forbid women working outside of the home but there is a lot of emphasis on putting your family/home first. I'm still curious about my Polygamy question though. If a woman has to provide a portion of her own food and clothing by working outside of the household. Then why does a man think he's in a position to provide for more wives? Since he's not technically providing enough.

The ‘provide a portion’ part is interesting to me because it’s written as though food, clothing, housing,other things are divided up or portioned out rather than added to. I don’t know of families who divide up each person’s portions where each one is responsible/kept track of for their segment of clothing, food,etc. What I do see are families who work together based on each other’s strengths of how to build up the family most beneficially. The focus is not on self but the family, one another. The husband as the head makes that determination. He is the provider and takes into consideration preferences, interests, and overall knows what’s going to build a strong family. I should add that what a husband provides technically meets and far surpasses material and physical needs. I know in my case, I can quit today and life would go on as it always has. In fact, I was supposed to be home this year but I asked my husband if it was all right if I work another year. Other families, I don’t know the dynamics, interests and I respect that -the husband does so to each their own

 

[LDremoved]

The ‘provide a portion’ part is interesting to me because it’s written as though food, clothing, housing,other things are divided up or portioned out rather than added to. I don’t know of families who divide up each person’s portions where each one is responsible/kept track of for their segment of clothing, food,etc. What I do see are families who work together based on each other’s strengths of how to build up the family most beneficially. The focus is not on self but the family, one another. The husband as the head makes that determination. He is the provider and takes into consideration preferences, interests, and overall knows what’s going to build a strong family. I should add that what a husband provides technically meets and far surpasses material and physical needs. I know in my case, I can quit today and life would go on as it always has. In fact, I was supposed to be home this year but I asked my husband if it was all right if I work another year. Other families, I don’t know the dynamics, interests and I respect that -the husband does so to each their own

Yes this was eye-opening for me as well as Sunflower's post. We should be looking at it from the perspective of what can I do for my family.

Personally I would have absolutely no issue doing that, i'd prefer working outside of the household and contributing financially the best I can. However what the Bible says doesn't really support my personal preferences. That's why I just had to ask this question lol

 

[steve]

The family is the only place where “From each according to their ability, to each according to their need” actually works.

 

[primrose]

Yes this was eye-opening for me as well as Sunflower's post. We should be looking at it from the perspective of what can I do for my family.

Personally I would have absolutely no issue doing that, i'd prefer working outside of the household and contributing financially the best I can. However what the Bible says doesn't really support my personal preferences. That's why I just had to ask this question lol

It’s worth chewing on and as a single woman desiring to join a family rooted in Christ, I put myself in your shoes and can see where your questions from studying Scripture are coming from.

 

[LDremoved]

It’s worth chewing on and as a single woman desiring to join a family rooted in Christ, I put myself in your shoes and can see where your questions from studying Scripture are coming from.

Thank you for being so gracious. I feel like i'm being annoying lol

 

[steve]

Thank you for being so gracious. I feel like i'm being annoying lol

You are asking excellent, if hard, questions.
These are good discussions.