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Can the Bible become an Idol and if so what does that look like?

Soldier's Psalm

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This is just a thought I had a while back and I figured I would throw it out there and see if some people can help me fill it out a little more.

I want to preface this thread with where I am coming from with this thought. I can hopefully say that everyone agrees for the most part that the Bible is the infallible Word of God. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 It is how we come to know God and his ways. It is our Ketubah and our Lamp. I grew up being taught that you didn't even lay the Bible on the ground or set another book on top of it and I have the same respect for it now. I don't want anyone thinking I am downing the Bible. What I want to get at in this thread is, is it possible to worship the Bible instead of the God it is about and if so what does that look like in practice.

So to begin, can you make the Bible an Idol? My thoughts on this are "Yes" Have you ever ran across someone who knew the Bible inside and out yet something wasn't quite right? They could make the arguments and could play the part but they would cut down a fellow believer in a second. Someone with head knowledge but not relationship. In Jesus' time they were called Pharisees. They knew the Word but there was something missing. They knew about God, but they didn't know God. They could quote Moses but couldn't discern God walking among them. It seems to me that knowing God's Word does not equate to knowing God.


That brings me to what does it look like in practice... My thoughts on this take me back to the Pharisees. A religious spirit seems to me at least to be the fruit of Idolizing the Word. That means being able to quote scripture while attacking fellow believers, neglecting weightier matters, and the such would be signs. Maybe a person quick to use the Word as a Sword and not a Lamp would be a sign.


This isn't a completely formed thought that I am working with here. I have things coming to me as I write but I would like some input to help flesh it out a little more or maybe I am way off. I am in no way dogmatic about this.
 
FWIW, I grew up in a group that idolized the KJV. It is still my go to version for multiple reasons, but in retrospect, it wasn’t really the translation that was idolized so much as it was the interpretations from it that were idolized.
 
FWIW, I grew up in a group that idolized the KJV. It is still my go to version for multiple reasons, but in retrospect, it wasn’t really the translation that was idolized so much as it was the interpretations from it that were idolized.
I came out of that same kind of Church. I grew up KJV only and every other version was from the Devil. lol And just like you KJV is still my fav for memorization but I have no qualms with other versions.
 
I came out of that same kind of Church. I grew up KJV only and every other version was from the Devil. lol And just like you KJV is still my fav for memorization but I have no qualms with other versions.

I’m a recovering kjv only terrorist. Lol

I definitely think you’re on to something with this thread...
 
I think it’s a misconception that the pharisees idolized the scriptures. They actually didn’t think the written Word was sufficient. They placed the “oral torah” above the written Word. Yeshua, on the other hand, spurned the “oral torah” and instead upheld the written Word.
 
I think it’s a misconception that the pharisees idolized the scriptures. They actually didn’t think the written Word was sufficient. They placed the “oral torah” above the written Word. Yeshua, on the other hand, spurned the “oral Torah” and instead upheld the written Word.
They did like to add things no doubt but they still obeyed the Torah. Their oral laws were more strenuous. So much so that they wouldn't spit in dirt on the Sabbath because that would be making mortar and would be working and so on. They got mad at Jesus for healing on the Sabbath because they said that was working or the disciples picking corn. Maybe a good observation is that the religious spirit makes rules where freedom was intended.

John 5:37 And the Father that sent me, he hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his form. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he sent, him ye believe not. 39 Ye search the scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of me; 40 and ye will not come to me, that ye may have life.

Jesus just healed the man at the Pool of Bethesda and is accused by onlookers for healing on the Sabbath. The 2 parts of the verse I want to Que up on here is bold above. Jesus said God's word was not in them yet they searched the scriptures because in them they think they have eternal life. They knew the scriptures but they did not know God. That obviously happens all the time. What I am curious about is what is the root cause. Did they not take the plunge and believe the Word even though they searched it because in it they thought they had life? Did they just know the legalities of scripture and not the whole message? Was the Scripture there god and not the God who gave it to them? I guess that is what I am trying to figure out.

In my mind it is like two people who have never met become pen pals and one memorizes every letter they get from the other. The one pen pal writes and says one day I am going to come visit you when the signs are right and the other eats it up and is so excited. Then one day the one pen pal comes to visit the other like he said he would and the other doesn't recognize him. The visiting Pen Pal tries to convince the other that it was him that wrote the letters but the other won't listen.

I think that is a good depiction of what is happening in John 5. They had memorized the love letters the groom had sent but they didn't know the groom.

I know that is a bunch of incoherent ramblings. It is time to go to bed.
 
They did like to add things no doubt but they still obeyed the Torah. Their oral laws were more strenuous. So much so that they wouldn't spit in dirt on the Sabbath because that would be making mortar and would be working and so on. They got mad at Jesus for healing on the Sabbath because they said that was working or the disciples picking corn. Maybe a good observation is that the religious spirit makes rules where freedom was intended.

John 5:37 And the Father that sent me, he hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his form. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he sent, him ye believe not. 39 Ye search the scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of me; 40 and ye will not come to me, that ye may have life.

Jesus just healed the man at the Pool of Bethesda and is accused by onlookers for healing on the Sabbath. The 2 parts of the verse I want to Que up on here is bold above. Jesus said God's word was not in them yet they searched the scriptures because in them they think they have eternal life. They knew the scriptures but they did not know God. That obviously happens all the time. What I am curious about is what is the root cause. Did they not take the plunge and believe the Word even though they searched it because in it they thought they had life? Did they just know the legalities of scripture and not the whole message? Was the Scripture there god and not the God who gave it to them? I guess that is what I am trying to figure out.

In my mind it is like two people who have never met become pen pals and one memorizes every letter they get from the other. The one pen pal writes and says one day I am going to come visit you when the signs are right and the other eats it up and is so excited. Then one day the one pen pal comes to visit the other like he said he would and the other doesn't recognize him. The visiting Pen Pal tries to convince the other that it was him that wrote the letters but the other won't listen.

I think that is a good depiction of what is happening in John 5. They had memorized the love letters the groom had sent but they didn't know the groom.

I know that is a bunch of incoherent ramblings. It is time to go to bed.
What’s going on in John 5 is not about searching the scriptures being a bad thing or idolizing them. The Bereans searched the scriptures and where commended for doing so. The reason Yeshua is chastising them is because they were searching the scriptures in order to be justified by their keeping of the commandments. Yeshua tells us that the scriptures testify of him. Our reason for searching the scriptures is what makes the difference. Are we searching the scriptures to know Him better or are we searching them so that we can keep the letter of law in order to justify ourselves? I think that’s what is really going on there.
 
Some of that original post reminded me of quizzing. Our children have friends that go to quiz meets where they compete with other children on how well they know whatever book of the bible they are currently quizzing on.

We believe understanding how to apply the instructions in the good book are far more important then being able to recite them.

Hubby and I were both raised to respect the written word of God, and we are both most familiar with the KJV. We have seen that there are errors in many translations, and think it wise to consider other versions for a more ballanced view of any particular subject or doctrine.

The scripture is of tremendous value and good for many things including reproof and correction, but the focus imho should be on the part at the end of that well known verse in Timothy....."That the man of God may be fully fitted for all good works."
It sounds to me like the best thing anyone can do with scripture is judge, correct, and teach the one in the mirror when you are alone in the room. Beating fellow believers over the head with the book or its contents is rarely as effective at changing them, as inspiring them by being a good example.

I think the bible is not usually as big an idol problem as pride in ones current understanding can be.
This is why what someone believes matters very little to me if they cannot explain why they believe what they do and point to the scriptural foundation that supports their belief.
In other words, I do NOT believe parrots to be teachers.
 
In my mind it is like two people who have never met become pen pals and one memorizes every letter they get from the other. The one pen pal writes and says one day I am going to come visit you when the signs are right and the other eats it up and is so excited. Then one day the one pen pal comes to visit the other like he said he would and the other doesn't recognize him. The visiting Pen Pal tries to convince the other that it was him that wrote the letters but the other won't listen.

I think that is a good depiction of what is happening in John 5. They had memorized the love letters the groom had sent but they didn't know the groom.
I have a very different take on the why you are trying to understand.
First off, while it is true that the great commission opened up the invitation to the entire world, the covenant at the time being discussed was with Israelites only. Jesus said "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
There is a lot of interesting history that can help understanding. Reading about Herod the great is something I highly recommend, as well as studying who the Edomites were. These were Esau's descendants and they were mixed with the Judean Israelites at the time. Radically different prophesies for those people though.
I think you are trying to understand a wolf in sheep's clothing from the perspective of a sheep.....that can only see the outer cover....not the heart.


"Why won't that lamb there come when the master calls?" "I don't know, but he doesn't seem to like grass either" *shrugs*
 
What’s going on in John 5 is not about searching the scriptures being a bad thing or idolizing them. The Bereans searched the scriptures and where commended for doing so. The reason Yeshua is chastising them is because they were searching the scriptures in order to be justified by their keeping of the commandments. Yeshua tells us that the scriptures testify of him. Our reason for searching the scriptures is what makes the difference. Are we searching the scriptures to know Him better or are we searching them so that we can keep the letter of law in order to justify ourselves? I think that’s what is really going on there.
I see what you are saying. Searching the scriptures is definitely a good thing I agree. I guess what I am trying to understand is the root difference between someone who knows/searches the scriptures and recognizes God opposed to someone who knows scripture and still follows them to the T but doesn't know God. Everyone serves something. Either its God an Idol or them selves but everyone worships something. Maybe it is Pride/self Worship which I can see. Maybe it is something else. I have ran across people who knew the Bible so well but were so wrapped up in legalism it was sickening. I could see Pride being the culprit because it was like a false humility being exercised. It was obviously not real and everyone could tell.
 
Some of that original post reminded me of quizzing. Our children have friends that go to quiz meets where they compete with other children on how well they know whatever book of the bible they are currently quizzing on.

We believe understanding how to apply the instructions in the good book are far more important then being able to recite them.

Hubby and I were both raised to respect the written word of God, and we are both most familiar with the KJV. We have seen that there are errors in many translations, and think it wise to consider other versions for a more ballanced view of any particular subject or doctrine.

The scripture is of tremendous value and good for many things including reproof and correction, but the focus imho should be on the part at the end of that well known verse in Timothy....."That the man of God may be fully fitted for all good works."
It sounds to me like the best thing anyone can do with scripture is judge, correct, and teach the one in the mirror when you are alone in the room. Beating fellow believers over the head with the book or its contents is rarely as effective at changing them, as inspiring them by being a good example.

I think the bible is not usually as big an idol problem as pride in ones current understanding can be.
This is why what someone believes matters very little to me if they cannot explain why they believe what they do and point to the scriptural foundation that supports their belief.
In other words, I do NOT believe parrots to be teachers.
I agree with what you are saying. The people I am talking about thought can tell you why they believe what they believe. They are doctrinally sound. They know rules and live them well. They even have extra rules. I think you might have hit it with Pride. It is not the Bible that has become their Idol. It is their pride in their knowledge. I can definitely see that. They have became their own god. They feel secure in their knowledge and ability to search the scriptures. We might be on to something.
 
I agree with what you are saying. The people I am talking about thought can tell you why they believe what they believe. They are doctrinally sound. They know rules and live them well. They even have extra rules. I think you might have hit it with Pride. It is not the Bible that has become their Idol. It is their pride in their knowledge. I can definitely see that. They have became their own god. They feel secure in their knowledge and ability to search the scriptures. We might be on to something.
Don't discount the other explanation without looking at it. It is a fact that no difference was made between Edomites and Israelites before the time of Christ. Jesus told some "My word has no place in you because you are not my sheep"
YHWH confirmed His covenant to Jacob/Israel and prophesied that He would write His law on the hearts of His people. ...defined as the house of Israel and house of Judah, and He also said in Isaiah He would gather others to Christ (called strangers) but He never had a covenant with Esau, and He prophesied a different future for Esau's descendants.
 
I've got ya. Its not a theory I derived from those scriptures but just things i have ran into in life and then was using those verses because I felt they might have some insight into what I have seen. There are other verses mostly involving the Pharisees I could use its just John laid out the idea of how they searched the scriptures and didn't recognize God. You would think that couldn't happen but it does all the time and was happening in mass during the time of Christ so the answer to what the disconnect is must be there in scripture somewhere. I have heard the saying that "They had head knowledge but not heart knowledge." That is a nice saying but it really doesn't mean anything and sure isn't useful for reaching people. I had this thought more formalized once before but I didn't write it down and I can't seem to hold on to things like this if I don't get them down. Now I feel like I am barely grasping at it.
 
I came out of that same kind of Church. I grew up KJV only and every other version was from the Devil. lol And just like you KJV is still my fav for memorization but I have no qualms with other versions.
Have you looking into the KJV being based off a very diffent Greek text. The Geneva is based on this same text as well as a few other older translations.
The newer versions largely differ because of the liniage
 
I grew up in a group that idolized the KJV

Can confirm. Had a discussion with a man once who believed that the reading the KJV, and only the KJV, had the power to improve peoples lives.

Here is another way.... there is a belief, in reaction against charismatics, that the Holy Spirit was given to the Apostles because they didn't have the scripture, and that He came to give us those scriptures but now that we have the Bible we no longer have the Holy Spirit. This not only rises to idolatry of the Bible, it is dangerously close to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Another way related to that....we have everything we need in the Bible for salvation and life in Christ (i.e. the Holy Spirit is unnecessary) and we can come to a perfect understanding of Truth through logical/rational exploration of the Bible.

And then there is the issue of Word vs. scripture. Some people call the Bible "the Word". But in the context of John 1 that's like saying the Bible is God incarnate in paper. As opposed to a more technical distinction that the scriptures are holy writings which contain the words of God. But I don't think this is in practice idolatry so much as carelessness in terminology.

Jesus said God's word was not in them yet they searched the scriptures because in them they think they have eternal life. They knew the scriptures but they did not know God.

Protestants do something like this. They draw lines of fellowship based on theological belief. This is said to come from a Greek way of thinking...you attain salvation / holiness / god / higher good via perfect understanding; as opposed to the Hebrew concept of a relationship with God and obedience to Him. This has faded some with the modern evangelical gospel's emphasis on a 'personal relationship with Jesus'; but their version has even bigger problems.

Likewise Protestant church life often revolves around knowledge: studying the Bible, listening to sermons, etc and is almost entirely devoid of spiritual disciplines, loving one another, and most any other action commended to us in the NT. In a way you could say that is like making the Bible an idol; or maybe more likely it's the fruit of doing so. I'm not sure there.
 
Have you looking into the KJV being based off a very diffent Greek text. The Geneva is based on this same text as well as a few other older translations.
The newer versions largely differ because of the liniage

And none of them, save the Orthodox church's translations, are based on the OT Septuagint which Christ, the Apostles and the early church used.
 
Can confirm. Had a discussion with a man once who believed that the reading the KJV, and only the KJV, had the power to improve peoples lives.

Here is another way.... there is a belief, in reaction against charismatics, that the Holy Spirit was given to the Apostles because they didn't have the scripture, and that He came to give us those scriptures but now that we have the Bible we no longer have the Holy Spirit. This not only rises to idolatry of the Bible, it is dangerously close to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Another way related to that....we have everything we need in the Bible for salvation and life in Christ (i.e. the Holy Spirit is unnecessary) and we can come to a perfect understanding of Truth through logical/rational exploration of the Bible.
Who or what christian denomination believes this?


And then there is the issue of Word vs. scripture. Some people call the Bible "the Word". But in the context of John 1 that's like saying the Bible is God incarnate in paper. As opposed to a more technical distinction that the scriptures are holy writings which contain the words of God. But I don't think this is in practice idolatry so much as carelessness in terminology.

I’ve never met a christian who literally thinks the Bible is God in paper form.


Protestants do something like this. They draw lines of fellowship based on theological belief. This is said to come from a Greek way of thinking...you attain salvation / holiness / god / higher good via perfect understanding; as opposed to the Hebrew concept of a relationship with God and obedience to Him. This has faded some with the modern evangelical gospel's emphasis on a 'personal relationship with Jesus'; but their version has even bigger problems.

Likewise Protestant church life often revolves around knowledge: studying the Bible, listening to sermons, etc and is almost entirely devoid of spiritual disciplines, loving one another, and most any other action commended to us in the NT. In a way you could say that is like making the Bible an idol; or maybe more likely it's the fruit of doing so. I'm not sure there.

really? I’ve been born again for over 30 years and spent time in a number of different denominations that ranged from stodgy old school protestants to charismatics that would make Benny Hinn blush, and I’ve never known any of them to believe what you just laid out. Is there a specific denomination that believes this?
 
Yeah, I don't think that's possible. But it does make me think about how knowledge can go to ones head, through arrogance, pride and so forth. The pharisees showed off their knowledge of the OT, so you could say its possible to idolize yourself based on your knowledge of the Bible.
 
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