Church/Worship Ideas

[Joleneakamama]

This is a good question for all the potentially polygamous men out there to consider prior to adding a second wife.

Men should probably talk about Biblical polygamy with their extended families and friends prior to actually choosing to do it. It's an uncomfortable subject, but is less awkward than introducing your second wife to someone who has never even heard about Biblical polygamy.

We talked about it with his side of the family for probably 18 years or more. It didn't make a darned bit of difference that I can see. He has a brother in law that wants to call it sin based on his wishful reading between the lines on passages. His three sisters really don't want to talk about it....or even tell their children about their new little cousin.

You can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't arrive at through reason.

Emotional outrage will be stronger then their "reasons."

Just count the cost.....and assume most friends and family will be lost to you.

 

[Joleneakamama]

I don't currently have 2, but if and when that does occur, I think my choice wuld be #4, if for some reason we were to move back to Dallas, or find such a church around here, or wherever we move. Another option I have considered, is going to a church dressed like a Mormon family. Then of they ask too many questions and determine that I have two wives, they would have to think twice about whether to ask a "potential convert" to leave.

Mormons just wear suits and ties. Nothing that telling.

 

[Daniel DeLuca]

Mormons just wear suits and ties. Nothing that telling.

OK, I should have specified the stereotypical white shirt, black slacks for me and the boys, while the wives wear long dresses. Also, we bring neighborhood kids with us to church, so we would look like a large family.

 

[frederick]

You can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't arrive at through reason.

Keep that statement somewhere we can easily find it again! It's a very valid comment that people need to be confronted with when they say dumb and unreasonable stuff about polygyny.

 

[NBTX11]

Keep that statement somewhere we can easily find it again! It's a very valid comment that people need to be confronted with when they say dumb and unreasonable stuff about polygyny.

From what I’ve found, many people will not listen to reasonable arguments. They’ve already made up their mind what their position is and are simply looking for further information that backs up the view they already hold.

You could show them 5,000 Bible verses to the contrary, and they would not care.

 

[MeganC]

You can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't arrive at through reason.

That applies to an awful lot of 'accepted wisdom'. Facts and reason have nothing to do with these strongly held opinions.

The recent phenomenon of people who "believed" in the mRNA shot comes to mind. They were fanatical about it! And their 'logic' was irrational. Like for instance how their mRNA shot would not be effective unless you had the shot too!

How's that work exactly? No one ever answered this challenge for me but they still held firm on this principle couching it in bullpuckey like "herd immunity".

Seriously, I have maintained that anyone who believes in science is ignorant of what science is. Such people have fashioned 'science' into an unscientific religion complete with heretics and apostates.

 

[Bartato]

From what I’ve found, many people will not listen to reasonable arguments. They’ve already made up their mind what their position is and are simply looking for further information that backs up the view they already hold.

You could show them 5,000 Bible verses to the contrary, and they would not care.

That applies to an awful lot of 'accepted wisdom'. Facts and reason have nothing to do with these strongly held opinions.

The recent phenomenon of people who "believed" in the mRNA shot comes to mind. They were fanatical about it! And their 'logic' was irrational. Like for instance how their mRNA shot would not be effective unless you had the shot too!

How's that work exactly? No one ever answered this challenge for me but they still held firm on this principle couching it in bullpuckey like "herd immunity".

Seriously, I have maintained that anyone who believes in science is ignorant of what science is. Such people have fashioned 'science' into an unscientific religion complete with heretics and apostates.

A lot of people unthinkingly accept what they are told by "experts". They accept random mutation and natural selection (naturalistic evolution) as the creative power behind all life because that is what their textbook and biology teacher told them.

They believe in the mRNA shots and the nonsense masks because Fauci, the WHO, CDC, and their doctor told them to. It doesn't matter that their doctor likely doesn't believe it, and perhaps only pushed them because he was threatened with losing his license and career.

They believe polygamy is sinful because that is what their parents, pastors, and Sunday school teachers told them.

If he is the pastor, then he believes it because his professor in Seminary, and Bible commentaries teach it.

Fear of ridicule, rejection, financial loss, and social isolation reinforce these types of false beliefs.

As Upton Sinclair is reported to have said:

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

 

[MemeFan]

A lot of people unthinkingly accept what they are told by "experts". They accept random mutation and natural selection (naturalistic evolution) as the creative power behind all life because that is what their textbook and biology teacher told them.

They believe in the mRNA shots and the nonsense masks because Fauci, the WHO, CDC, and their doctor told them to. It doesn't matter that their doctor likely doesn't believe it, and perhaps only pushed them because he was threatened with losing his license and career.

They believe polygamy is sinful because that is what their parents, pastors, and Sunday school teachers told them.

If he is the pastor, then he believes it because his professor in Seminary, and Bible commentaries teach it.

Fear of ridicule, rejection, financial loss, and social isolation reinforce these types of false beliefs.

As Upton Sinclair is reported to have said:

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

Real issue is crappy experts.

There is no societal point in having experts if everyone must themself check everything.

 

[steve]

The tendency is to lazily rely on the portrayed experts.
And they take advantage of it. Putting down anything that they cannot control.
Folk medicine.
Homeschooling.
Christianity that isn’t church dependent.
Food production, few home gardens, canning, etc.
Food preparation, the amount of people who cannot afford it that depend on fast food is absolutely astonishing.

 

[Daniel DeLuca]

Real issue is crappy experts.

There is no societal point in having experts if everyone must themself check everything.

Well, we have a not so crappy expert in our corner. Once we reach critical mass, he could run a seminary, if we ever get the funds together to launch one.

 

[Mark C]

Primarily directed at families with more than one wife, but anyone can chime in. How do you worship together as a family, given that poly is rejected and hated by the vast majority of Christendom and certainly by all major denominations?

Options seem to include the following options.

There's at least one more option:

(And I've referred tangentially to yet another, that we tried first - a Sabbath session with others, which eventually developed into a local fellowship, but not without issues.)

Worship from home with an on-line fellowship. We have been conducting such (Sabbath services and teachings) for well over a decade (Shabbat Shalom Mesa fellowship). For reasons that you essentially outlined here, I do not use the word 'church' - and we are certainly not a 501c(3)!

Most regulars have been people in areas (sometimes remote, as we are) who do not have a local fellowship to their understanding (some even in metro areas in some parts of the world).

But, over the years, we have had people who chose to gather together in families or small groups and then 'tune in' to the live services, and perhaps have a live study or midrash, and fellowship, afterward.

 

[Mark C]

Then of they ask too many questions and determine that I have two wives, they would have to think twice about whether to ask a "potential convert" to leave.

My bet (based on experience). They won't. They'll 'cop out' instead, and say, "well, you're welcome, but only one "wife" is permitted."

 

[Mark C]

...Seriously, I have maintained that anyone who believes in science is ignorant of what science is. Such people have fashioned 'science' into an unscientific religion complete with heretics and apostates.

And a High Priest. Who even gets to lie to congress.

 

[NBTX11]

One of the things I am now considering doing, since no churches (or virtually no churches) will accept my entire family, is take one wife to church A, and take another wife to church B, while I attend both. That way nothing will have to be hidden, and I can worship openly with a wife. I don't really see any other work arounds to attending church with my entire family.

Yes, not attending any church is an option. However, what do you think of my idea? All going together just simply isn't really an option.

 

[FollowingHim]

no churches (or virtually no churches) will accept my entire family

Have you tried?

Pick the biggest church in your area, turn up and sit in the back row, and I doubt anybody will batt an eyelid. When asked who you are, just reply with your first names, not anything that is asking for trouble. In other words, don't say "I'm Bob, these are my wives Sue and Ann, and my children Dick and Jane". Just say "I'm Bob, this is Sue, Ann, Dick and Jane". Just act normal. Almost certainly everyone will just assume that one of those women is your wife and the other is your sister or daughter or friend or something, and just jump straight to talking about something else. Pretty quickly afterwards you'll all go in different directions anyway and be talking in different groups of people, so won't look like a family at all.

 

[NBTX11]

Have you tried?

No, I haven’t. I just kind of assumed we wouldn’t be accepted. The church I have been attending for 20 years with first wife certainly won’t accept it. I have deep ties to this church but may have to leave. I currently attend with first wife, while second wife and I do home worship.

Looking for other available options that don’t involve all home worship and study.

 

[FollowingHim]

You won't be accepted if you walk up the front and announce to everyone "I've got two wives, are you going to accept us unconditionally or tell us to leave". And you can't turn up to your existing church with an additional wife without the very act of walking in the door being that statement, since everyone already knows you. This is because the church cannot be seen to actively endorse something that most people believe is sin - even if an elder does agree with you, he can't publicly support you because it would cause a schism in the church. So if you seek acceptance, you will be kicked out.

But if you don't seek acceptance, and just quietly turn up, you won't be kicked out - so by default will receive the acceptance you never sought...

 

[NBTX11]

But if you don't seek acceptance, and just quietly turn up, you won't be kicked out - so by default will receive the acceptance you never sought

I just feel like it’s inevitable that people will ask questions about who the two women are, even if I keep quiet, sit in the back, and say nothing. People are naturally curious about new people. How would you answer the question, “is this your wife?” I don’t want to advertise it, but I don’t want to lie either, if asked direct questions. People will want to get to know us. They see welcoming and getting to know new people as an outreach ministry.

 

[FollowingHim]

Answer truthfully and see what God does. The only thing stopping you trying is fear.

In most cases, even a truthful answer won't change anything because people won't be expecting a polygamist so won't ask that question. If they ask "Is this your wife", and you say yes, they'll assume the other woman is not. They won't ask "is she your wife also" because they already know she isn't because you already said the other one was your wife. Just answer truthfully the exact questions that are asked, and don't volunteer additional information that is not necessary to answer the question.

Obviously as people get to know you some of them will figure it out. And it will be an adventure finding out what happens next. Most likely they'll see you as a mission and accept you in the same way that they'd accept any sinner who needs their help, could be interesting! Get rid of your fear and just go out into the world.

 

[FollowingHim]

What I am struggling to understand is: Why would you be scared that someone you don't even know yet might find out you're a polygamist?

Honestly @NBTX11 if you are too scared to let anyone know you are a polygamist, you should not be a polygamist. But that ship has sailed. You cannot keep this hidden like it's a dirty little secret, it isn't. You knew it would become public knowledge before you even took a second wife (because only a fool would think they could keep something that big a secret, and I am assuming you are not a fool, so you knew this). This is your life now. Get out there and live it.