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Did Jesus have an issue with money?

1 a shekel while a coin was also a unit of weight meaning a quantitive amount of gold or silver. Not something necessarily with a graven image placed upon it. Like the weight thereof was so many shekels of silver.
2 Solomon is a very bad example here and I have heard it before. Under his rule idolatry entered the kingdom from the customs of some of his wives, aside from that fact. He is one of very few instances where he was given precise permission to do so in the creation. Not negating the fact he is never given permission here to adulterate money with graven images in this book.

If the sanctuary shekel had no image on it, how would anyone know that it was a sanctuary shekel? I understand that it was based upon weight for size etc, but there had to be some measure of identification with the sanctuary. Can you prove that there was no image?

Why is Solomon a bad example? Where does God give him permission to grave these images?
 
why in the parable of the ten talents does christ most resemble the man who buried or did not use the graven image and was killed.

This seems to say that you think Christ was killed because He didnt use money.

IMO this is one of the worst examples possible of Christ.
His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strowed:
Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away†even that which he hath.
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 
I have not said it was sin for a person to hold a graven image.


I can admit that I am a sinner and commit sin by using graven images to survive... Its not my fault I am forced to live in sin.

Which is it @Herbie ?



I’m only continuing this discussion out of shear morbid curiosity to see which shark you’ll jump next.
 
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@Herbie, I do see where you're coming from to some degree. The Old Testament temple shekel was a unit of weight, which could be paid in any form of silver - but such measures all ended up being turned into coins eventually for practical reasons. By the time of Christ, the temple had adopted the use of the shekel of Tyre, which had an image of a pagan god on it. This was because the Romans forbade the Jews from printing their own money, and the shekel of Tyre was the closest coin available to the temple shekel (it was actually slightly larger than the historical shekel, so the temple did quite well out of that arrangement). So to pay the temple tax, at the time of Christ, you would have to handle a coin with a pagan image on it.

Roman coins were not used to pay the temple tax. Rather, shekels of Tyre were used. This is why there were money changers in the temple courtyard - people would exchange Roman and other money for silver shekels, in order to use these to pay the temple tax.

So if it was wrong to handle such a coin, then it would be wrong to pay the temple tax.

Where your argument falls over though is that there is no actual statement in scripture that it is wrong to handle such money. Your position is based on speculative logic. And given how common money is, affecting so much of life, you would expect somebody somewhere would have said something clear about this issue.

The temple tax was being paid in pagan coins - did Jesus ever tell anyone "don't pay the temple tax"? The Roman taxes were being paid in pagan coins - did Jesus ever tell anyone "don't use Roman coins, don't pay Roman taxes"? No. Never. Quite the opposite - He told people TO pay the Roman taxes - and they could only do that by handling Roman coins.

If it were sin to handle such coins then Jesus would have been instructing everybody to sin. God would never command sin, so this would mean Jesus was a false prophet.

yep a shekel had become a coin by the time of Christ which only shows satans influence at that time. there would be no need for a scripture to say it was wrong to handle one. Christ would have not been able to handle it as it because it was unclean similar to him eating animals sacrificed to idols would have been unclean. Im not talking about unwashed hands either. I dont think he was telling everyone sin though. after all he did tell people to give all the graven images back to casear as ceasar had violated the second commandment by making them. when they asked him about taxes, people see pay temple taxes and church tithes from that but Its pretty clear from his wording he meant send it all back to caesar. He even asked whos image was on it. so he did indeed instruct people to do what was right. any other instance could be seen as futility to be unable to stop people from serving the graven image.
 
I would find it unnecessary to cary the statue because I personally have no use for it. But I don't believe carrying it would be a sin. I also do not serve money. I serve the Lord and my neighbors and friends and family as I believe scripture tells me to do.
If all of society worshiped the statue and forced you to use it you would. you would work 40 hours a week for that statue.
 
I deeply distrust money and also have taken note that Jesus is not ever explicitly shown to be personally handling money, which I find intriguing. The silence of scripture is useful for instruction, (see: Melchizedek's parents) but I think more thought needs to be given to what it means. Jesus probably handled money at some point just like Mel probably had parents, but the teaching is in the thought exercise about what the bible is pointing to with it's silence.

I am but a dog of the gentiles. To point out that there are graven images on my currency is not news to me. I'll even agree that the money I use is part of the Beast System (TM) but since I'm neither serving nor worshiping any God but God, I am unconcerned. As a Christian, such legalism is literally beneath me. Jesus has put such thinking under my feet. (Colossians 2:20,21)

I think it more likely that Jesus is never shown to be handling money because part of His ministry was to call people to sell their possessions, give their money to the poor, and follow Him even though He was homeless. Money is not the defiler, for Jesus has no problem commanding His disciples to buy and sell and pay their taxes. Love of Money, or Mammon, is the defiler. I would think that if the spirit of the love of money was a competitor to Jesus, that it would be only natural that Jesus would treat money with contempt even to the point of refusal to touch it whenever possible. Mammon is His love rival. Of course He would treat money with disdain.

As for us, I have always thought that Christians should disrespect money more than they do, in solidarity with our Master. The proper way to disrespect it isn't to eschew it's use altogether (If that were even possible) but to use it in the manner that Jesus prescribed. By giving it away for the benefit of others. By refusing to chase after it or compromise your principles for it. By working to earn for your family and then giving it away to such as have need.

I could see a principled man who, while pursuing 'holiness' refuses to touch money or anything with a graven image. What would he do? Just barter all the time for goods and services? I suppose he must.

Such a man would have my respect for his willingness to sacrifice for the sake of conscience. Even if I quietly suspect he is in dire need of perspective.

Then again, I know how legalism works. He needs SOME kind of way to store value. He'll probably end up amassing some other kind of valuable to take the place of money and then lecture his guests about graven images while still storing up worldly goods for himself at which point I will suffer permanent nerve damage from how hard I'll be rolling my eyes.

Which, I have to say, I know people who love the barter system and prefer it to money by a huge margin. I also know these people to be... for lack of a more delicate word, mostly useless. You're always doing them favors and they are always trying to give you turquoise jewelry or arrowheads or hand carved things in payment. I mean hey... atlatls are pretty cool, but I mean if you don't really want an atlatl then what do you do with it?
 
Definition of Serve Websters 1828
SERVE, verb transitive serv. [Latin servio. This verb is supposed to be from the noun servus, a servant or slave, and this from servo, to keep.]

1. To work for; to bestow the labor of body and mind in the employment of another.

Jacob loved Rachel and said, I will serve thee seven years for Rachel thy youngest daughters. Genesis 29:15.

No man can serve two masters. Matthew 6:24.

2. To act as the minister of; to perform official duties to; as, a minister serves his prince.

There is a lot more to this definition I only included the top two.

Again I don't do this with money. I do not serve money.
Money is a tool which I use to trade with others in society for the purpose of purchasing their labor or possessions. Nothing more.
1. you work for money? and the people who control you that make it.
 
I noticed that you didnt address Christ paying the Temple tax when he was 20
i notice you did not take into account that another person could have paid the temple tax for him like peter when he had been 20, or that It may have been paid in weight not coinage, or a verse which im certain tehre must be a verse that says jesus walked right on up to the temple with a graven image in hand and gave the money changers there due. well there is one like that but it does not involve him carrying any graven images as we both know.
 
This seems to say that you think Christ was killed because He didnt use money.

IMO this is one of the worst examples possible of Christ.
His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strowed:
Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away†even that which he hath.
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
I dont think it was the only reason he was killed. I do think he used it to show an example of what happens to those like himself that don't serve money, he died for many reasons. the main one was for me and you.
 
Which is it @Herbie ?



I’m only continuing this discussion out of shear morbid curiosity to see which shark you’ll jump next.
i have not said it was sin for me or you to hold a graven image only that it would have defild christs perfection. its only a sin to make serve bow down or worship them. and yes as for all of us we have no option but to serve them or starve. Sorry but its just how it is now.
 
I deeply distrust money and also have taken note that Jesus is not ever explicitly shown to be personally handling money, which I find intriguing. The silence of scripture is useful for instruction, (see: Melchizedek's parents) but I think more thought needs to be given to what it means. Jesus probably handled money at some point just like Mel probably had parents, but the teaching is in the thought exercise about what the bible is pointing to with it's silence.

I am but a dog of the gentiles. To point out that there are graven images on my currency is not news to me. I'll even agree that the money I use is part of the Beast System (TM) but since I'm neither serving nor worshiping any God but God, I am unconcerned. As a Christian, such legalism is literally beneath me. Jesus has put such thinking under my feet. (Colossians 2:20,21)

I think it more likely that Jesus is never shown to be handling money because part of His ministry was to call people to sell their possessions, give their money to the poor, and follow Him even though He was homeless. Money is not the defiler, for Jesus has no problem commanding His disciples to buy and sell and pay their taxes. Love of Money, or Mammon, is the defiler. I would think that if the spirit of the love of money was a competitor to Jesus, that it would be only natural that Jesus would treat money with contempt even to the point of refusal to touch it whenever possible. Mammon is His love rival. Of course He would treat money with disdain.

As for us, I have always thought that Christians should disrespect money more than they do, in solidarity with our Master. The proper way to disrespect it isn't to eschew it's use altogether (If that were even possible) but to use it in the manner that Jesus prescribed. By giving it away for the benefit of others. By refusing to chase after it or compromise your principles for it. By working to earn for your family and then giving it away to such as have need.

I could see a principled man who, while pursuing 'holiness' refuses to touch money or anything with a graven image. What would he do? Just barter all the time for goods and services? I suppose he must.

Such a man would have my respect for his willingness to sacrifice for the sake of conscience. Even if I quietly suspect he is in dire need of perspective.

Then again, I know how legalism works. He needs SOME kind of way to store value. He'll probably end up amassing some other kind of valuable to take the place of money and then lecture his guests about graven images while still storing up worldly goods for himself at which point I will suffer permanent nerve damage from how hard I'll be rolling my eyes.

Which, I have to say, I know people who love the barter system and prefer it to money by a huge margin. I also know these people to be... for lack of a more delicate word, mostly useless. You're always doing them favors and they are always trying to give you turquoise jewelry or arrowheads or hand carved things in payment. I mean hey... atlatls are pretty cool, but I mean if you don't really want an atlatl then what do you do with it?

I honestly quit using money completely for 3 and a half years, I started doing local mission work. I used the barter system. there were times when it got rough i'm not going to lie but the father always came through for me with something to eat in some way, or Good people that would let me work or trade something out. I even encountered a man that was willing to carry money for me for a while. He had no relationship with God but after that he did. It was a really interesting time of my life, i got to help a lot of people. Like I always say there is no need to travel to the other side of the world to witness. why not just go into the streets around us its already Sodom and Gomorrah out there. one time I was by myself and been out there a long time. I was walking up this road so thirsty. I was talking with the Master thats what I had started calling Jesus because thats what the disciples did. and I was saying im so thirsty please send me something to drink. im my mind a thought just popped into my head it was "sometimes in life i will give you something for just no good reason" about that time I looked down and there was an unopened bottle of blackberry wine just laying there in the bushes. It was super good too. God is good man. I dont care what they say Im sorry that satan is rulling the governments and all forcing people to have to use those graven images. But the master will return eventually and those responsible will be dealt with.
 
it would not have been wrong for the savior to have told them to pay tax or to carry money somewhere.
thankfully veritas has already touched on this issue, and I have to say He knows Gods law very well.
the issue of capital punishment. the commandment said thou shat not murder. Not kill as translation people to believe today. regardless, that issue is clear that God has the authority to tell someone to do something in some instances that may violate his commandments. this is even seen in the new testament when annias and safias "yes I butchered the spelling here" held back some money they were to lay at the apostles feet and they were struck dead.

There is no need for a person to have sinned for God to decide to tell someone to do something that may violate his commandments. It is rare that it happens. He also had elisha to tell a messenger to lie to a person that they would be healed when God had shown elisha that the person would certainly die. I have provided this example much earlier in the discussion i belive though.
yeah I dont think it would have been any problem for the savior of mankind to have told someone to do that. consider the donkey they took for him to ride into jeruseam so he could over throw the tables. he said go and loose the donkey and if any one asks say the Lord has need of it. Thou shalt not steal. so no sir I cannot agree with that logic ok. no offense.
 
Well, @Herbie I remain unconvinced by your argument. So, if you come across a large aim of money and are afraid to violate yourself by picking it up, just give me a holler.... I'll take care of the problem. ;)
 
I skipped most of the posts as threads of this sort are an energy suck I can't afford.

@Herbie, I have three thoughts:
  1. If you want to get rid of some money, please don't give it to me. You're sending out bad vibes, man.
  2. If you come at people this way in real life, I wouldn't be surprised if you attract the sort of folk who slash tires.
  3. Guys who come on here and begin lecturing others never stick around for long. I do hope you feel some love while you're here.
 
Well, @Herbie I remain unconvinced by your argument. So, if you come across a large aim of money and are afraid to violate yourself by picking it up, just give me a holler.... I'll take care of the problem. ;)
its ok, If the son of Gods example was not enough to convince you. How could I?
 
I skipped most of the posts as threads of this sort are an energy suck I can't afford.

@Herbie, I have three thoughts:
  1. If you want to get rid of some money, please don't give it to me. You're sending out bad vibes, man.
  2. If you come at people this way in real life, I wouldn't be surprised if you attract the sort of folk who slash tires.
  3. Guys who come on here and begin lecturing others never stick around for long. I do hope you feel some love while you're here.
honestly, I was being very polite to begin with and still am mystic. I was quicky lectured and called out by mystic due to my beliefs. Then a new thread was created by Veritas to make sport of me against my wishes which I forgive him for. I believe I have stood my ground against them despite my heavy disadvantage numberwise in the situation. I have not been proven wrong and stick to what I know to be true. As far as approaching people I don't but I doubt I would have been treated this way in the streets. All I can do is just keep a good disposition and not treat others as I have been.
 
great good has come from this though a seed has been planted whether or not it started out the way I would have wanted I am glad it happened as any platform to spread the truth is better than none.
 
i was not called out by mystic sorry man so far you are innocent. Except for the bad vibes comment but its cool i was refering to ancient paths.
 
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