Lol, I’m always embarrassed by the laundry my poor @windblown has to do. I’m sure yours is staggering!Oh, it's a great analogy! You should see the laundry I do every day!
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Meat Does Exodus 21:10 apply to non-concubine wives?
- Thread starter Luke S
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H6370 - pîleḡeš
H6370
H6371 ››
‹‹ H6369פִּילֶגֶשׁ Transliteration: pîleḡeš 
Pronunciation: pee-leh'-ghesh Part of Speech: feminine noun Root Word (Etymology): Of uncertain derivation TWOT Reference: 1770 Outline of Biblical Usage:
- concubine, paramour
- concubine
- paramour
KJV Translation Count: 37x
The KJV translates Strongs H6370 in the following manner: concubine (35x), concubine (with H802) (1x), paramours (1x).Strong's Definitions: פִּילֶגֶשׁ pîylegesh, pee-leh'-ghesh; or פִּלֶגֶשׁ pilegesh; of uncertain derivation; a concubine; also (masculine) a paramour:—concubine, paramour. Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon
[Jump to Scripture Index]
STRONGS H6370:
פִּלֶ֫גֶשׁ, פִּילֶ֫גֶשׁ 37 noun feminine concubine (Late Hebrew id.;J פִּילַּקְתָּא (פַּלְקְתָא), perhaps influenced by Greek παλλακή, παλλακίς (properly young girl), Latin pellex; originally Greek word according to StaG. i. 380, compare also LewyFremdw. 66f; on possibly Hittite origin see JenZMG xiviii (1894), 468 ff.); — פִּ׳ absolute 2 Samuel 3:7, construct 2 Samuel 21:11, פִּי׳ absolute Genesis 36:12; Judges 19:1, construct Genesis 35:22 + 4 times; suffix פִּילַגְשׁוֹ Genesis 22:24 +, שֵׁהוּ- Judges 19:24; שִׁי- Judges 20:4 + 2 times; plural פִּלַגְשִׁים 2 Samuel 5:13 + 2 times, פִּי׳ Genesis 25:6 + 5 times; construct פִּלַגְשֵׁי 2 Samuel 16:21, 22; suffix פִּילַגְשָׁיו 2 Chronicles 11:21, פִּלַגְשֶׁיךָ 2 Samuel 19:6, פִּלַגְשֵׁיהֶם Ezekiel 23:20; —
1. concubine Genesis 22:24; Genesis 25:6; Genesis 35:22; Genesis 36:12; Judges 8:31; Judges 19:1 + 10 times Judges 19:20; 2 Samuel 3:7 (twice in verse) + 7 times 2 Samuel; 1 Kings 11:3; 1 Chronicles 1:32 + 6 times Chronicles; Esther 2:14; Songs 6:8, 9.
2. either = paramour (perhaps contempt.; ὁ πάλλαξ = youth), or < concubinage Ezekiel 23:20 (figurative of Jerusalem doting on Babylon).
Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon, Unabridged, Electronic Database.
Copyright © 2002, 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc.
All rights reserved. Used by permission. BibleSoft.com
BLB Scripture Index of Brown-Driver-Briggs
Genesis
22:24; 22:24; 25:6; 25:6; 35:22; 35:22; 36:12; 36:12
Judges
8:31; 19:1; 19:1; 19:20; 19:24; 20:4
2 Samuel
3:7; 3:7; 5:13; 16:21; 16:22; 19:6; 21:11
1 Kings
11:3
1 Chronicles
1:32
2 Chronicles
11:21
Esther
2:14
Song of Songs
6:8; 6:9
Ezekiel
23:20; 23:20
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Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon
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Concordance Results Shown Using the YLT
Strong's Number H6370 matches the Hebrew פִּילֶגֶשׁ (pîleḡeš),
which occurs 37 times in 35 verses in the WLC Hebrew.
Gen 22:24
and his concubine, whose name is Reumah, she also hath borne Tebah, and Gaham, and Tahash, and Maachah.Gen 25:6
and to the sons of the concubines whom Abraham hath, Abraham hath given gifts, and sendeth them away from Isaac his son (in his being yet alive) eastward, unto the east country.Gen 35:22
and it cometh to pass in Israel's dwelling in that land, that Reuben goeth, and lieth with Bilhah his father's concubine; and Israel heareth.Gen 36:12
and Timnath hath been concubine to Eliphaz son of Esau, and she beareth to Eliphaz, Amalek; these are sons of Adah wife of Esau.Jdg 8:31
and his concubine, who is in Shechem, hath born to him -- even she -- a son, and he appointeth his name Abimelech.Jdg 19:1
And it cometh to pass, in those days, when there is no king in Israel, that there is a man a Levite, a sojourner in the sides of the hill-country of Ephraim, and he taketh to him a wife, a concubine, out of Beth-Lehem-Judah;Jdg 19:2
and commit whoredom against him doth his concubine, and she goeth from him unto the house of her father, unto Beth-Lehem-Judah, and is there days -- four months.Jdg 19:9
And the man riseth to go, he and his concubine, and his young man, and his father-in-law, father of the young woman, saith to him, 'Lo, I pray thee, the day hath fallen toward evening, lodge all night, I pray thee; lo, the declining of the day! lodge here, and let thine heart be glad -- and ye have risen early to-morrow for your journey, and thou hast gone to thy tent.'Jdg 19:10
And the man hath not been willing to lodge all night, and he riseth, and goeth, and cometh in till over-against Jebus (It is Jerusalem), and with him are a couple of asses saddled; and his concubine is with him.Jdg 19:24
lo, my daughter, the virgin, and his concubine, let me bring them out, I pray you, and humble ye them, and do to them that which is good in your eyes, and to this man do not this foolish thing.'Jdg 19:25
And the men have not been willing to hearken to him, and the man taketh hold on his concubine, and bringeth her out unto them without, and they know her, and roll themselves upon her all the night, till the morning, and send her away in the ascending of the dawn;Jdg 19:27
And her lord riseth in the morning, and openeth the doors of the house, and goeth out to go on his way, and lo, the woman, his concubine, is fallen at the opening of the house, and her hands are on the threshold,Jdg 19:29
and cometh in unto his house, and taketh the knife, and layeth hold on his concubine, and cutteth her in pieces to her bones -- into twelve pieces, and sendeth her into all the border of Israel.Jdg 20:4
And the man, the Levite, husband of the woman who hath been murdered, answereth and saith, 'Into Gibeah (which is to Benjamin) I have come, I and my concubine, to lodge;Jdg 20:5
and rise against me do the masters of Gibeah -- and they go round the house against me by night -- me they thought to slay, and my concubine they have humbled, and she dieth;Jdg 20:6
and I lay hold on my concubine, and cut her in pieces, and send her into all the country of the inheritance of Israel; for they have done wickedness and folly in Israel;2Sa 3:7
and Saul hath a concubine, and her name is Rizpah daughter of Aiah, and Ish-Bosheth saith unto Abner, 'Wherefore hast thou gone in unto the concubine of my father?'2Sa 5:13
And David taketh again concubines and wives out of Jerusalem, after his coming from Hebron, and there are born again to David sons and daughters.2Sa 15:16
And the king goeth out, and all his household at his feet, and the king leaveth ten women -- concubines -- to keep the house.2Sa 16:21
And Ahithophel saith unto Absalom, 'Go in unto the concubines of thy father, whom he left to keep the house, and all Israel hath heard that thou hast been abhorred by thy father, and the hands of all who are with thee have been strong.'2Sa 16:22
And they spread out for Absalom the tent on the roof, and Absalom goeth in unto the concubines of his father before the eyes of all Israel.2Sa 19:5
And Joab cometh in unto the king to the house, and saith, 'Thou hast put to shame to-day the faces of all thy servants, those delivering thy life to-day, and the life of thy sons, and of thy daughters, and the life of thy wives, and the life of thy concubines,2Sa 20:3
And David cometh in unto his house at Jerusalem, and the king taketh the ten women-concubines -- whom he had left to keep the house, and putteth them in a house of ward, and sustaineth them, and unto them he hath not gone in, and they are shut up unto the day of their death, in widowhood living.2Sa 21:11
And it is declared to David that which Rizpah daughter of Aiah, concubine of Saul, hath done,1Ki 11:3
And he hath women, princesses, seven hundred, and concubines three hundred; and his wives turn aside his heart.1Ch 1:32
And sons of Keturah, Abraham's concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And sons of Jokshan: Sheba and Dedan.1Ch 2:46
And Ephah concubine of Caleb bare Haran, and Moza, and Gazez; and Haran begat Gazez.1Ch 2:48
The concubine of Caleb, Maachah, bare Sheber and Tirhanah;1Ch 3:9
All are sons of David, apart from sons of the concubines, and Tamar their sister.1Ch 7:14
Sons of Manasseh: Ashriel, whom Jaladah his Aramaean concubine bare, with Machir father of Gilead.2Ch 11:21
And Rehoboam loveth Maachah daughter of Absalom above all his wives and his concubines -- for eighteen wives he hath taken, and sixty concubines -- and he begetteth twenty and eight sons, and sixty daughters.Est 2:14
in the evening she hath gone in, and in the morning she hath turned back unto the second house of the women, unto the hand of Shaashgaz eunuch of the king, keeper of the concubines; she cometh not in any more unto the king except the king hath delighted in her, and she hath been called by name.Sng 6:8
Sixty are queens, and eighty concubines, And virgins without number.Sng 6:9
One is my dove, my perfect one, One she is of her mother, The choice one she is of her that bare her, Daughters saw, and pronounce her happy, Queens and concubines, and they praise her.Eze 23:20
And she doteth on their paramours, Whose flesh is the flesh of asses, And the issue of horses -- their issue.
Does Exodus 21:10 apply to non-concubine wives?
The simplest, most direct answer to that straightforward question that I've ever seen is:YES.
...Because, WHATEVER people understand, or misunderstand, the word, and context to be...
He is establishing the MINIMUM Necessary Conditions.
PS> This happens to be the reason why most 'ketubot' include those "three minimum conditions" as a basic, standard, foundation part of the contract.
Prove it. I’m glad you finally took a stand on something but now comes the hard part. Back up this ridiculous assertion.
Read what I wrote. ALL of it.
Then apply simple logic.
If necessary, rinse, repeat.
I read what you wrote. It was a clear, simple statement of your thesis. Well done. You’re growing.
What it wasn’t was a defense of why you believe that and why anyone else should.
Why is this passage establishing a minimum standard for all wives? I don’t see that in the text. And to save time I won’t give much credence to what the Keebler Bots say.
If you had read the whole thread, particularly the first page, you would know not only that we have discussed concubines ad nauseum, but also exactly where Zec stands on the matter and why.
It should be no surprise to you that he's going to make you prove your point.
I recommend you cease trying to school everyone (flailing around with a stick) and instead lay out your position and prepare to defend it... defining 'concubine' would be a fun place to start...
But if A is mutually exclusive of B then that whole algebra problem falls apart.
I did, and quite frankly I could care less where he stands on the matter.
And the point is actually NOT complicated; that was MY point. My position is clear, and the only proof I intend to offer is directly above. If it's not obvious, sorry.
As for 'concubine' (I seem to recall that's been done ad nauseum
) that is NOT the word in Scripture, there. The CONTEXT of the verse SEEMS to be 'ama' (look that up for yourselves - I'm done with hairsplitting for the sake of argument alone - first use Gen. 20:17) and then the verse says, APPARENTLY in sequence, "...if he take another [another WHAT? 'wife' is in italics]. So, whatever she is, her 'food, raiment, duties of marriage' he shall not diminish.Sounds a lot like minimum necessary conditions to me. (And, evidently, others who saw it long before I did.)
If someone doesn't see it, sorry. But I can't give 'em eyes, if He didn't already.
And - you know what? It's ALSO consistent with His continuing protections and provisions for women.
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Wow, look at that! You did it! You gave a reason! Yay!I did, and quite frankly I could care less where he stands on the matter.
And the point is actually NOT complicated; that was MY point. My position is clear, and the only proof I intend to offer is directly above. If it's not obvious, sorry.
As for 'concubine' (I seem to recall that's been done ad nauseum
Sounds lot like minimum necessary conditions to me. (And, evidently, others who saw it long before I did.)
If someone doesn't see it, sorry. But I can't give 'em eyes, if He didn't already.
And - you know what? It's ALSO consistent with His continuing protections and provisions for women.
Now, why does the passage explicitly identify women who are bought in order to be “wives” as the ones who are protected and not just wives?
If it applies to all wives why not just say so?
@Mark C and @The Revolting Man , let's build on the conversation too! -- how do we reconcile either side of the argument with vs 11? If it applies to all women, can any wife go out free if her portion is withheld/diminished in the taking of an additional wife? On either side, is the woman free to remarry, or is she still bound?
She is free to remarry as far as I can tell which is why blowing the principal out to all wives is so radical.
It basically upends all divorce law in scripture.
The phrase is translated "go out free" or "without having to [repay] the silver/money" that was paid for her; the debt is paid (better, perhaps: void).
That is NOT the same, however, as 'she is not still a [choose a word]' - that she is not still bound. UNLESS her husband gives her the 'get' (sefer keretutah). [That, BTW, is also - of course - consistent with what Shaul says in I Cor. 7:10-11]
IMHO, it certainly seems that any man with integrity would have given her that get in such a situation, so that she may remarry. After all (see v 8) he is to let her be redeemed, can't sell her to a 'foreign people', and has 'dealt deceitfully with her.'
Easy, because we saw a dog on the other side!Reminds me of the question; Why did the blonde cross the road?
.... Wrong question!
What was she doing out of the kitchen!
But we’re already dealing with a law breaker. This man has already reduced her food, rainment and marital portion. He clearly isn’t a man of integrity.
So is your contention that the woman in Exodus 21:10 is in the same situation as the woman in 1 Corinthians 7:11? That she is to remain single or be reconciled to her husband if she leaves under the provisions of Exodus 21:10?