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Greetings from BuiltRight
- Thread starter BuiltRight
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BuiltRight
New Member
Thank you.... I appreciate that.
BuiltRight
New Member
I am curious, how has your experience been when pressing the truth of scripture when the topic of Marriage and Divorce comes up in study.
I have only come to a what I now believe is the proper understanding of biblical marriage about a year and a half ago. I have not "come out" yet to my wife or my congregation. I believe the principles of biblical patriarchy (of which polygyny is only one aspect) need to be accepted by christians everywhere. I am currently teaching the adult class Sunday's and just making the case for biblical patriarchy has been a battle both in class and at home. If someone were to ask me, I wouldn't lie, but I see no reason to use a grenade instead of chisel to carve the stone. So to answer your question, the experience of trying to share the truth of biblical patriarchy has been fairly tough, but people seem to be listening. I have not shared my beliefs about polygyny yet. I have more studying to do on divorce.
Patriarchy and polygyny are two linchpins in developing a proper understanding of the divorce issue from the Bible.
BuiltRight
New Member
I understand, as I am slowly showing my wife biblical patriarchy and polygyny are a correct view of scripture. I recently had a preacher drop the planned bible study for a discussion of marriage. It was the typical skimming, and he jumped into Lemech. I mishandled his defense. The evidence is strong that his sons are mentioned because their skills were important, and were passed on through the flood. Anyhow, it did not sound as convincing when I tried to speak up about it. The preacher did not like the fact that I was defending Lemech, so he asked what would my wife say if I asked her about having another wife. I joked with a statement, "She could use a little help." That was not well received. I did not fully confront the issue, and I consider it a mistake. The next time I would rather have people upset with me but at least hearing supportive scripture. Instead, they are upset but think they are right.
In my experience the CoC does not view the OT as having any authority except when it is convenient, like modesty discussions. I personally have respond countless times, "That is Old Testament," to people. I wouldn't even use the old law when discussing homosexuality. I think the CoC needs a proper understanding of how the OT relates to the new and then a proper understanding of Biblical Patriarchy before they will be ready for polygyny. I plan on writing out an argument for polygyny mirroring the arguments used for baptism for salvation. It may be a while though. I will be sure to share it here when I do.
@NS4Liberty , I can sympathize with both your frustration and your wish to edify the church. . . and I want to be careful here. There is a decided and painful difference between "church" and ekklesia in actual practice. If there are people in the church whom you love and who love you . . . and more importantly who are fully submitted to the LORDSHIP of Christ . . .even they will have a difficult time changing their mind about previously held beliefs. Writing out an argument may be a great exercise for you. . . but unless the LORD has explicitly directed you . . . I would only share that argument in conversation with people whom you care about and who care about you. I'm not saying "give up" . . .and I'm definitely NOT saying disobey if that is what the LORD would have you do. I'm saying, that in most churches if you want to move the piano from one place to another . . .it typically has to be moved an inch at a time. Anyway, I'll be praying for you. God Bless
I would recommend speaking more closely with bro @PeteR by phone or other direct means of communication. I've learned a lot from him in terms of bringing your family to patriarchy and polygyny, and he can share from personal experience the pitfalls of prolonging the polygyny discussion with a wife.
Be careful. That preacher's suggestion about telling your wife about a 2nd wife sounds like a veiled threat.
Shalom @BuiltRight great to have you here. I'm in SC with a son that sounds like your second born...
I suggest you write a short to medium length position paper on your views on marriage. In a no notice "debate" with someone you may forget some of your points and some scripture. If the issue of marriage comes up, give them your paper and say, brother, please read every word of this. I would love to discuss this issue with you, and when you've had a chance to digest what I have written, we can discuss each issue. Clearly lay out each scripture that supports polygyny and why. I recently wrote a paper on this, and am not quite done yet, and it is nearing 10 pages long so far.
I am kind of in the same situation as you, although I did "come out" to my wife immediately, and we have been discussing for 6 months and she completely believes it's biblical now. But I haven't told my Baptist Church yet. I don't really see the point right now. I teach a small group (essentially Sunday School), and I have not brought up the issue of Biblical marriage yet. I don't feel like lobbing grenades at this point. But I absolutely will without question at some point.
Maybe that's the wrong way to handle it, but that's what I have essentially done.
Welcome @BuiltRight!
When getting to the bottom of these things with others I suggest that you first make clear the actual definition of things, with scripture. For instance, what is a husband? what is marriage? what is a wife? They are just mysterious words to the average church member.
My wife recently called my old friend who Is now a pastor, about my new revelations. So I decided to call him. We got into a long discussion, where we both heard each other's point of view. He is a very understanding man, unlike most.
I pointed out all the wifely subjection verses, plus how the wife is to be subject unto her husband as to the Lord... isn't Jesus master to us? how her desire is to be to her husband, and he shall rule over her... if he rules over her, doesn't that make him a ruler? how sarah called her husband lord... isn't that an owner? In scripture the husband has one wife, two wives, three wives ... it never makes an issue of it, just that he "haves" them ... he said that many cults are polygamous ... so I said, well David was polygamous, so was Moses, Joshua, Joash, Gideon, Elkanah... just recited a whole list off of some fo the greatest biblical heroes ... I made many other points, irrefutable ones. Got down to etymological definitions as well, and how marriage has been throughout history. I presented the biblical truth of a husband.
The modern day church sees marriage as an equal partnership, instead of ownership. This is why they fight tooth and nail about polygyny, because they do not properly understand marriage. They are really fighting from an feminist view of marriage being equality, and two heads to the body instead of one. Listen to a devout feminist talk about marriage and you'll realize quickly that they, the enemies of marriage, actually understand marriage better than many western Christians. They refuse taking a man's last name, because they know it infers ownership.
“We are thine: thou never barest rule over them; they were not called by thy name.”
Isaiah 63:19
“and they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.”
Revelation 22:4
I broke it down to my friend that a husband and wife is a master and servant relationship. he budged, and said I don't think so. "I don't believe the wife is a slave", so I said not a slave, no, a servant, helper, or help meet. Her duty is to serve her husband. At this point it was made clear that I was being completely consistent, but with my final question it was made clear that I was correct. I asked, do you think the church is in equal partnership with Jesus(eph 5)? He hesitated to say no. And tried to rebuttal with, is the church a servant or slave to Jesus? I simply said, yes. He couldn't say anything, and It was a great way to end the conversation.
When getting to the bottom of these things with others I suggest that you first make clear the actual definition of things, with scripture. For instance, what is a husband? what is marriage? what is a wife? They are just mysterious words to the average church member.
My wife recently called my old friend who Is now a pastor, about my new revelations. So I decided to call him. We got into a long discussion, where we both heard each other's point of view. He is a very understanding man, unlike most.
I pointed out all the wifely subjection verses, plus how the wife is to be subject unto her husband as to the Lord... isn't Jesus master to us? how her desire is to be to her husband, and he shall rule over her... if he rules over her, doesn't that make him a ruler? how sarah called her husband lord... isn't that an owner? In scripture the husband has one wife, two wives, three wives ... it never makes an issue of it, just that he "haves" them ... he said that many cults are polygamous ... so I said, well David was polygamous, so was Moses, Joshua, Joash, Gideon, Elkanah... just recited a whole list off of some fo the greatest biblical heroes ... I made many other points, irrefutable ones. Got down to etymological definitions as well, and how marriage has been throughout history. I presented the biblical truth of a husband.
The modern day church sees marriage as an equal partnership, instead of ownership. This is why they fight tooth and nail about polygyny, because they do not properly understand marriage. They are really fighting from an feminist view of marriage being equality, and two heads to the body instead of one. Listen to a devout feminist talk about marriage and you'll realize quickly that they, the enemies of marriage, actually understand marriage better than many western Christians. They refuse taking a man's last name, because they know it infers ownership.
“We are thine: thou never barest rule over them; they were not called by thy name.”
Isaiah 63:19
“and they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.”
Revelation 22:4
I broke it down to my friend that a husband and wife is a master and servant relationship. he budged, and said I don't think so. "I don't believe the wife is a slave", so I said not a slave, no, a servant, helper, or help meet. Her duty is to serve her husband. At this point it was made clear that I was being completely consistent, but with my final question it was made clear that I was correct. I asked, do you think the church is in equal partnership with Jesus(eph 5)? He hesitated to say no. And tried to rebuttal with, is the church a servant or slave to Jesus? I simply said, yes. He couldn't say anything, and It was a great way to end the conversation.
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That's a wonderful story. Praise God! It is unfortunate that your wife went around you like that, but understandable from the point of view of equality. I think you opened that man's eyes that day. Hopefully the seed takes root and grows. He is in a social position that would cause it to be choked.
Absolutely! How many of the apostles called themselves bondservants of the Messiah? Checkmate.
Very well done. Nice!
This is exactly it; and worse. Jumping straight to polygamy is a bridge too far for most Christians. They need to get the foundations laid first. Milk not meat. They can't even accept patriarchy or true submission much less our nature in Christ as slaves to Him.
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Welcome from a fellow North Catolinian