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How do you find U.S. women of other religions who want poly

Re: How do you find U.S. women of other religions who want p

I think foreign actually means foreign. But only some nations are forbidden. The Israelites were allowed to take foreign women from far away land as property (Deutoronomy 20:14) (who they could marry), but they were required to kill foreigners in certain locations (Deuteronomy 20:16) (who they could not marry) and the Israelites are allowed to marry the foreign woman they enslave during war who are their property (Deuteronomy 21:10-11). What are the odds that the Jews would go to war against a Jewish nation and capture Jewish woman, to be their Jewish wife slaves. Furthermore I suspect that Jews would be forbidden from taking Jewish woman as captives (Deutoronomy 24:7, Exodus 21:16) therefor as I see it these captive women (who they can marry by permission of God) would most likely be not labeled as Jewish at the time of capture.

10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy [a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

[a] Deuteronomy 20:17 The Hebrew term refers to the irrevocable giving over of things or persons to the LORD, often by totally destroying them.

Deuteronomy 20:10-18 NIV

When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife
Deuteronomy 21:10-11

"Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death.
Exodus 21:16 NIV

If a man is caught kidnapping one of his brother Israelites and treats him as a slave or sells him, the kidnapper must die. You must purge the evil from among you.
Deuteronomy 24:7 NIV

If a man be found stealing any of his brethren of the children of Israel, and maketh merchandise of him, or selleth him; then that thief shall die; and thou shalt put evil away from among you.
Deuteronomy 24:7 KJV
 
Re: How do you find U.S. women of other religions who want p

You mean, you choose to believe Nekar is a root that always strictly equates to 'someone of another country' in English... This discussion is not a simple tautology

Look, Deut 20:17 lists only 6 tribes, non of which are the Moabites. Who did the Jews marry that ticked God off so much?

Neh 13:23 In those days also saw I Jews that had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, and of Moab.

Three tribes not listed in in the 'kill them all' verses. Unless Nehemiah was way off base the prohibition on marrying strange women went beyond the short list God gave. But wait! Then we have the case of Ruth the Moabitess who is very much blessed. Why? Its not being of a foreign country that is the problem, its being foreign to God.

Scripture tells us why we should not marry an unbeliever, and experience from Solomon to Shimon confirms it. You're on a fools errand, and I think your on it out of angst about finding what your looking for.
 
Re: How do you find U.S. women of other religions who want p

Tlaloc said:
You mean, you choose to believe Nekar is a root that always strictly equates to 'someone of another country' in English... This discussion is not a simple tautology

Look, Deut 20:17 lists only 6 tribes, non of which are the Moabites. Who did the Jews marry that ticked God off so much?

Neh 13:23 In those days also saw I Jews that had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, and of Moab.

Three tribes not listed in in the 'kill them all' verses. Unless Nehemiah was way off base the prohibition on marrying strange women went beyond the short list God gave. But wait! Then we have the case of Ruth the Moabitess who is very much blessed. Why? Its not being of a foreign country that is the problem, its being foreign to God.

Scripture tells us why we should not marry an unbeliever, and experience from Solomon to Shimon confirms it. You're on a fools errand, and I think your on it out of angst about finding what your looking for.
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Would it be logical to forbid marrying people because they are on a list Nehemiah made of women's nationalities whose husbands Nehemiah beat up (Nehemiah 13:25), or would it be more logical to use a contraband list written by God? I would like to suggest that the problem was they were not teaching their children Hebrew after marrying these women who they failed to teach Hebrew even though they should teach their wives God's word (See Nehemiah 13:24), none the less that is irrelevant because this is a (historically accurate) story not a command.

Just because Nehemiah did or said something does not make it true or correct. It is not logically valid to use Nehemiah beating up a bunch of men, to determine a moral command for who it is moral to marry (unless you suggest not to marry Nehemiah because he has a bad temper :evil: .) Now the list from Deuteronomy carries some weight because it came directly from God as a command, if you look at the context.

Now God and or Moses gave certain Israelite men permission to force Midianites virgin women to be their slaves/ war captives and after one month and Israelite can marry and go in unto any woman he has taken and owns as a war captive.

"Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Numbers 31:15-17 NIV

And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.
Deutoronomy 21:13 KJV

I am curious are the Midianites on a list of contraband countries for marriage?
 
Re: How do you find U.S. women of other religions who want p

So, your argument is now that Nehimiah was incorrect when he identified these relationships as causing sin and transgression and where in themselves a Great Evil?

Since you've chosen to bank on Nehemiah not knowing what he's talking about and set yourself against the council of experienced and married men here there really isn't anywhere to go in this conversation anymore. Certainly part of the problem was that they failed to teach their kids Hebrew, but this whole case is related to Solomon case, and his problem was not a failure to teach language, it was that his heart was turned by heathen wives. Women have a tremendous influence over their husband for good or ill, and I suppose thats something you won't personally come to understand until you are married.

The women God allowed Isreal to keep where utterly cut off from their people would be readily integrated into Israeli society. Its really not the same as contracting a marriage with a person from another nation. The Midianites where also an Abramic people, clearly they had generally strayed, but they where still 'children of the covenant' in some way.


Why do you think Solomon feel into Idolatry? And if you agree with the Bible about it being his heathen wives why do you think you are wiser or stronger than he?
 
Re: How do you find U.S. women of other religions who want p

Tlaloc said:
So, your argument is now that Nehimiah was incorrect when he identified these relationships as causing sin and transgression and where in themselves a Great Evil?

Since you've chosen to bank on Nehemiah not knowing what he's talking about and set yourself against the council of experienced and married men here there really isn't anywhere to go in this conversation anymore. Certainly part of the problem was that they failed to teach their kids Hebrew, but this whole case is related to Solomon case, and his problem was not a failure to teach language, it was that his heart was turned by heathen wives. Women have a tremendous influence over their husband for good or ill, and I suppose thats something you won't personally come to understand until you are married.

The women God allowed Isreal to keep where utterly cut off from their people would be readily integrated into Israeli society. Its really not the same as contracting a marriage with a person from another nation. The Midianites where also an Abramic people, clearly they had generally strayed, but they where still 'children of the covenant' in some way.


Why do you think Solomon feel into Idolatry? And if you agree with the Bible about it being his heathen wives why do you think you are wiser or stronger than he?
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15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy [a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

[a] Deuteronomy 20:17 The Hebrew term refers to the irrevocable giving over of things or persons to the LORD, often by totally destroying them.

Deutoronomy 20:15-18 NIV

King Solomon, however, loved many foreign women besides Pharaoh's daughter—Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians and Hittites. They were from nations about which the LORD had told the Israelites, "You must not intermarry with them, because they will surely turn your hearts after their gods." Nevertheless, Solomon held fast to them in love.
1 Kings 11:1-2 NIV

The king, moreover, must not acquire great numbers of horses for himself or make the people return to Egypt to get more of them, for the LORD has told you, "You are not to go back that way again." 17 He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold.
Deutoronomy 17:16-17 NIV

And Solomon had horses brought out of Egypt, and linen yarn: the king's merchants received the linen yarn at a price.
1 King 10:28 KJV


If an Israelite married someone from a distant nation like Japan or North America it would have been fine, but he was supposed to make war on the nearby nations in a specific territory not peace and marriage it was not enough to not marry them but he was required to completely destroy those nations. He also had to choose Egypt for all the countries to take horses from and take many wives instead of a few wives. He was irresponsible toward his wives I doubt he could keep Exodus 21:10 with 1,000 wives

The weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was 666 talents,
1 Kings 10:14 NIV
2 Chronicles 9:13 NIV

Solomon was a man of peace and unity like Obama is credited for being.

But perhaps the last two verses are a funny coincidence
 
Re: How do you find U.S. women of other religions who want p

Good note about the talents, worth further discussion sometime.

Very good reply,

So, why would your heart not be at risk of being turned if you where married to someone who did not love Christ?
 
Re: How do you find U.S. women of other religions who want p

Saul got in trouble for failure to kill and instead taking the plunder as did Solomon who took wives instead of killing the women.

But none of this proves moral truth because these are (historically accurate) stories not commands

And he sent you on a mission, saying, 'Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.' 19 Why did you not obey the LORD ? Why did you pounce on the plunder and do evil in the eyes of the LORD ?"
1 Samuel 15:18-19 NIV
 
Re: How do you find U.S. women of other religions who want p

Tlaloc said:
Good note about the talents, worth further discussion sometime.

Very good reply,

So, why would your heart not be at risk of being turned if you where married to someone who did not love Christ?
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Because I want her to love God more, that is why I want to marry her.

There are at least two kinds of love

1. I love what you can give me, so I will let you have your sin to get what I want from you

2. I love you, so I will suggest turning away from sin even if it means you will get angry at me, to try to help you receive a good afterlife

I would have to guess Solomon was type 1, which maybe why he could get so many women. My goal is type 2 which probably makes me unpopular with most women.

If Christianity really is true and we both study both of our religions it should be obvious to both of us that Christianity is true. And if it is false (which it is not) and it becomes clear that it is false (which it will not but if it did) then I should not be a Christian.
 
Re: How do you find U.S. women of other religions who want p

DTT,

It appears to me you have not studied the doctrine of election nor the doctrine of full or extensive depravity nor even the idea of presuppositional ideas, thus due to that you are coming to your position here that you could somehow love someone enough that by your love it would bring them to the truth.

So my questions are to you this:
1. Do you know what the Bible (specific verses) says about a person's ability to see and understand truth when they are fully born and extensively through and through with sin touching and dominating every facet of their being?

2. Do you know what the Bible says (specific verses) about the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit's agreement and plan for redemption made in eternity and realized in time?

3. In light of those two issues and doctrines do you know what presuppositional apologetics is and why those two doctrines form a foundation that differs with your view on your ability to love someone into the kingdom?

These are important issues here DTT and I'd like to walk with you here and see if you are thinking about these issues biblically.

Dr. Allen
 
Re: How do you find U.S. women of other religions who want p

Dr. K.R. Allen said:
DTT,

It appears to me you have not studied the doctrine of election nor the doctrine of full or extensive depravity nor even the idea of presuppositional ideas, thus due to that you are coming to your position here that you could somehow love someone enough that by your love it would bring them to the truth.

So my questions are to you this:
1. Do you know what the Bible (specific verses) says about a person's ability to see and understand truth when they are fully born and extensively through and through with sin touching and dominating every facet of their being?

2. Do you know what the Bible says (specific verses) about the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit's agreement and plan for redemption made in eternity and realized in time?

3. In light of those two issues and doctrines do you know what presuppositional apologetics is and why those two doctrines form a foundation that differs with your view on your ability to love someone into the kingdom?

These are important issues here DTT and I'd like to walk with you here and see if you are thinking about these issues biblically.

Dr. Allen
Click to expand...

The way I see it, it is my responsibility to do my best to present the truth I know, not cram it down their throat. And if it really is true, it will likely be apparent to them after enough evidence, after that point if they choose to reject the truth it is not because it is not true, but because they did not want to accept what they know to be true, due to evil intention. After I have presented the truth to her, I can simply love her either way and continue to read the Bible with her and leave it to God to work in her heart through the scriptures instead of bullying her.

By the way it would be much more dangerous to marry a false "Christian", who has practiced years of denying the truth, than someone who simply has not yet read the Bible because for instance her parents came from a country where their were no Bibles and may be more open to truth.

By the way do you believe people are capable of making choices?
 
Re: How do you find U.S. women of other religions who want p

DTT,

Well, if you are willing to answer my questions I'm sure the question you have asked me will be answered as we talk. ;)

So, as far as my questions are you familar with those subjects?
 
Re: How do you find U.S. women of other religions who want p

Mmm, Saul did do wrong in that case, but Solomon got so many wives by tribute and treaty and not warfare, as he lived in an era of relative peace thanks to Davids wars (and we should be ever thankful those that fought in WWII for similar reasons). He could hardly be expected to kill wives he got through treaty, though the right thing to do would have been to refuse them.

It is accurate that Nehemiah called these marriages sin, transgression, and great evil. I agree with him and believe he was necessarily correct in his analysis, and you are arguing that he is incorrect or not necessarily correct. It is a historically accurate story containing ethical precepts of a Godly man.

Bernardino Ochino said (translated) 'the mere act of God, without precept thereunto ascribed, does not bear our immatation' and the same can be said about Divine History, to that extent they are stories and not commands. So, the fact that God only created one man and one woman does not create an argument for anything, but is just an event since nothing more was said about it. But this section of Nehemiah does have a precept very clearly ascribed to it, so I do not believe it is valid to brush it off mere history.

Now, concerning the other post I'd like to lament the limitations of our language. Love covers a ridiculous number of important concepts and even some unimportant ones (its a tennis score, sheesh) and our lack of distinction cases many problems. Anyway, you seem to be talking about motives for love in general rather than types of love arn't you?

1. I love what you can give me
Click to expand...

This is the most important motive for love in the human experience. This is the very channel God uses to draw us too him, we may love Him only because He first loved us. This motive should be our very first experience with love, our love for our parents necessarily begins here. Love based in dependence is quite pure, and we never outgrow it when it comes to God.

But this was not likely Solomon motive for loving these women, these where not marriages based in romantic notions of love and Solomon had a lot more to offer the women than any one of them would have to offer him. His love for them would be a result of the intimacy and probably a genuine desire for them to be happy and comfortable in his palace.


If Christianity really is true and we both study both of our religions it should be obvious to both of us that Christianity is true. And if it is false (which it is not) and it becomes clear that it is false (which it will not but if it did) then I should not be a Christian.
Click to expand...

Now take a look at this, its entirely cerebral and wholly ignorant to the effect intimacy has on judgment. If she is not interested in studying you have no hope of getting any of that clarity, if she (as she likely would) operates on a different system of logic you could not come to a clear conclusion with her. If she is of any type of mindset that is not of the election Christianity will never become clear to her, nor will she falsify your convictions (in fact it is unlikely she would even care to try, none of Solomon wives railed against God, they just carried on in their own beliefs) meanwhile your intimacy and proximity comprises your ability reason.

I believe Keith is entirely on the right track here. You can tell a woman the truth and have all these conversations before you marry her, if she is elect then we have no objections to the marriage in the first place, if she willfully rejects the truth then you are with her for life and her influence over you is always going to be greater than your influence over her. This is so important to your life and the lives of your children. Why do you object too having these discussions and finding out what she will believe before you consider marrying her?
 
Re: How do you find U.S. women of other religions who want p

15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy [a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

[a] Deuteronomy 20:17 The Hebrew term refers to the irrevocable giving over of things or persons to the LORD, often by totally destroying them.

Deutoronomy 20:15-18 NIV

King Solomon, however, loved many foreign women besides Pharaoh's daughter—Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians and Hittites. They were from nations about which the LORD had told the Israelites, "You must not intermarry with them, because they will surely turn your hearts after their gods." Nevertheless, Solomon held fast to them in love.
1 Kings 11:1-2 NIV

Tlaloc said:
Mmm, Saul did do wrong in that case, but Solomon got so many wives by tribute and treaty and not warfare, as he lived in an era of relative peace thanks to Davids wars (and we should be ever thankful those that fought in WWII for similar reasons). He could hardly be expected to kill wives he got through treaty, though the right thing to do would have been to refuse them.
Click to expand...

My point is he is not supposed to be making treaties. He was supposed to kill EVERYONE in certain nations male and female by making treaties with CERTAIN nations he was breaking the command to kill EVERYONE from those certain nations, other nations he was NOT required to kill

For example. King Solomon was supposed to kill 100% of the Hittities in the territory allotted him by God, by making a treaty he failed to kill 100% of the Hittites. It is possible his heart was already compromised when he made the treaty before he even married the women.

Many people think the Anti-Christ will be a man of peace. (Although I have not seen the phrase Anti-Christ in revelation that I remember.)
 
Re: How do you find U.S. women of other religions who want p

Dr. K.R. Allen said:
DTT,

Well, if you are willing to answer my questions I'm sure the question you have asked me will be answered as we talk. ;)

So, as far as my questions are you familar with those subjects?
Click to expand...

See the topic I created

Salvation Election/depravity questions by Dr. K.R. Allen
 
Re: How do you find U.S. women of other religions who want p

None of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites or Sidonians are mentioned in Deut 7:1 or Deut 20:16. The only nation common to these verses are the Hittites, clearly the prohibition goes beyond the certain nations outlined in Deuteronomy.

Weather his heart was comprised when younger or not (and its possible it was) it was not until he was old (1Ki 11:4) that he was truely subverted.

Why do you object too having discussions on Salvation and finding out what she will believe before you consider marrying her?
 
Re: How do you find U.S. women of other religions who want p

Tlaloc said:
None of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites or Sidonians are mentioned in Deut 7:1 or Deut 20:16. The only nation common to these verses are the Hittites, clearly the prohibition goes beyond the certain nations outlined in Deuteronomy.

Weather his heart was comprised when younger or not (and its possible it was) it was not until he was old (1Ki 11:4) that he was truely subverted.

Why do you object too having discussions on Salvation and finding out what she will believe before you consider marrying her?
Click to expand...

There is nothing wrong with it but, there are cases when that is not necessarily possible.

1. If husband and wife can not speak the same language initially very well.

2. If someone is marrying someone who is a stranger, and there are cultural reasons you can not know that person well until you are married.

3. If someone is simply in a situation where it may take a long time to share your faith.

4. If there are culture blockades to discussing religion with the person before you are married to them, but they are comfortable with discussing your religion afterwards.

Simply having her read a "gospel" track say a sinners prayer and declare herself a "Christian," may result in marrying an anti-Christ who labels herself as a "Christian." At the very bare minimum I would want to have read through the entire Bible with her, if someone must be a "Christian" who I have adequately and correctly shared my faith with before she marries me. Needless to say, if I am spending so much time with a woman as to read through the entire Bible with her it might be ethically better to marry her before I am with her so long to prevent certain unethical situations. However I do not feel that they must label themselves a "Christian" before I marry them so it is unnecessary to spend all that time with them before marriage.
 
Re: How do you find U.S. women of other religions who want p

1. How would this not cause problems for a marriage anyway?

2. In that case you get to know their family to get to know them

3. Such as?

4. Why would they not carry their cultural blockades with them? Being married outside their culture does not mean they lose their culture.

If you are concerned about hormonal issues the time it takes to read through a whole Bible then form a Bible study group, in a group setting such a concern would be mitigated.
 
Re: How do you find U.S. women of other religions who want p

Tlaloc said:
1. How would this not cause problems for a marriage anyway?

2. In that case you get to know their family to get to know them

3. Such as?

4. Why would they not carry their cultural blockades with them? Being married outside their culture does not mean they lose their culture.

If you are concerned about hormonal issues the time it takes to read through a whole Bible then form a Bible study group, in a group setting such a concern would be mitigated.
Click to expand...

If you find such a Bible study group that reads 28 chapters of the Bible a week for 52 weeks or whatever it takes to read through the whole Bible if I am off by a little, let me know.

One example of a cultural barriers are when the parents will not let you spend time with their daughter alone and you do not have an opportunity to read through the whole Bible with her until you get married and the parents do not live near you, so you can not read the Bible with her in front of the parents, furthermore dating is forbidden anyway. Of course in some situations there can be very good reasons to forbid dating, at least when a christian father forbids his daughter from dating.
 
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