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Is the term Old Covenant ever mentioned in Scripture?
- Thread starter Verifyveritas76
- Start date
We aren’t in the “honeymoon” we are in the betrothal. The second coming hasn’t happened yet. The millennium is the honeymoon in this analogy...
Torah includes Dath. Dath does not include Torah.
Deuteronomy 33:2-4. And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery† law (Dath) for them.
Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words.
Moses commanded us a law (Torah), even the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob.
So husbands are to remain celibate?
I’m not following you. I’m referring to the analogy of messiah and his bride. We are in the betrothal process...
Jeremiah 31:33
[33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord , I will put my law (Torah) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
The new covenant is based on Torah.
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In this verse it says what God is going to do, where does it say what man is to do?
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I agree. God established the covenant. Both parties are responsible for its intigrity. Man failed therefore God created a new covenant not relying on man's ability but His.
The bride is the ekklesia. Eph 5 compares a husband and wife to Christ and the church.
In the Torah betrothal period, the friends of the bridegroom that prepares the bride to be is Moses/Aaron/Levites. These are the brothers and neighbors that teach the bride everything she needs to know to be prepared for her groom. After Christ, that job is done by the Holy Spirit who will lead us and guide us into all truth.
We can know the Lord, because he is the one teaching us about himself. We are not solely dependent on another man’s intuition or inspiration or mediation.
No longer do we have to be the brother or neighbor that mediates between the ekklesia and the groom. He’s got that taken care of.
After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law (torah) in their inward parts.
Torah does not consist of the sum total commanded in the first 5 books. It is everything that is commanded by God. The same prophet that writes this portion is also the same prophet that says that God didnt command anything related to burnt offerings and sacrifice. Jer. 7:21,22. If he didnt, who did? Moses. And not just at Sinai. He did it with Pharoah too. Kind of a pattern.
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Because it's stated that way.
What good works did the thief on the cross next the Son of God display?
Dath: edict, commission, usage, decree, rule
“Adonai came from Sinai;
from Se‘ir He dawned on His people,
shone forth from Mount Pa’ran;
and with Him were myriads of holy ones;
at His right hand
was a fiery decree for them.
3(The Decree) He truly loves the peoples —
all his holy ones are in your hand;
sitting at your feet,
they receive your instruction,
4 the Torah Moshe commanded us
as an inheritance for the community of Ya‘akov.
An inheritance for the community of Jacob, who got his inheritance from Isaac, who got His inheritance from Abraham who because Abraham obeyed God and did everything He required of him, keeping His commands (mitzvotai), His Statues (chukkovtai) and His instructions (vetovrotai).
Jerimiah 31:33
"This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law (Tovrati [Torah] תֹּֽורָתִי֙ ) in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
Scripture says Torah not Dath in their minds and hearts. I love and respect you but I have to go with what scripture plainly and clearly states rather than an interpretation that its only the decree. He then restates the decree as the reason why.
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I did. Tell me where you see man's responsiblity in the new covenant.
I agree both parties are responsible for its intigrity. Man failed. End of story beginning of story. I believe God does everything by design. He is the Greatest Architect, The Most creative author ever.
I believe (this is not so sayith the LORD, but after testing all spirits it doesn't conflict with scripture or make Yeshua, or God a liar, sinner, or covenant breaker, and has given me a sense of peace of mind and calm of heart) That there is no new covenant which the scriptures used to back it up as new and separate have to twist, ignore, and outright conflict with scripture. Scripture never conflicts with scripture. Our interpretations (usally from us trying to remake God in our image) conflict with scripture. Our lack of understanding the original languages feed into bad interpretations and traditions of thought that constantly make Yeshua or God liars or sinners.
Why would you think that this is the decree, rather than that was their receptiveness to the decree?
This was the description of how the decree was given . . .
And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.
And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
And this is the decree . . . . . And God spake all these words, saying,
I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.
This is Dath
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If I showed you you wouldn't be convinced anyway. You are already making assumptions on what took place at the cross and the thief. Your faith appears to be in Torah, just as it may appear to you my faith is in Grace. My faith is in God to do what He said He would do, SAVE ME, even though I am a sinner. I try to do good. I study what I can to learn about my Savior, but the level that God's Law is written on my heart is God's responsiblity not mine.
Edit: Reference @Verifyveritas76 post above for location of man's responsiblity to God in the old covenant.
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Love and respect your way too. Let’s just say I have biblical issues with torah = Torah = sum total of everything Moses said God said.
The same passage in Jeremiah that dissassociates God with the commands to sacrifice still repeats the injunction and quote from Exodus 19. Basically, obey my voice. How does God write it on our hearts? When we hear his voice.
A good example of Gods law (Dath) written on someone’s heart is Cornelius, who apparently wasn’t a convert to Judaism, didnt sacrifice and yet Peter acknowledged that he was accepted by God.
1 John 3;22
And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
This is the same thing that Christ condensed everything in the Law and the Prophets to. Matthew 22:37-40. Both of them prime examples of Dath, not Torah.
My faith is only in the finished work of Yeshua on the cross. Torah and grace are not opposed to one another.
That’s very convenient. I have pointed out scripture to back up everything I have said. Please do the same.
Psalm 119:34 seems to differ... actually most of the Psalms seem to differ.
He gave us his law we should be striving to walk in it with his help. 1 John 2:1-6
Ok so I understand what you’re saying and I think we are actually in agreement. Our responsibility is to believe in faith. That is what is required for salvation. My point is that keeping the commands is an act of obedience after salvation. And is the evidence of the salvation.
John 14:16, Romans 6:1, 1 John 3:4, 1 Peter 1:13-16 and there are many more. That 1Peter passage is especially telling. I encourage you to cross reference vs16 ...