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Is the term Old Covenant ever mentioned in Scripture?

Why would you think that this is the decree, rather than that was their receptiveness to the decree?
Context. First I meant to illustrate the start to the decree. Then the Next Bold Sentence is when Moses begins giving Torah, His Instructions are part of it. It fits with the message He is constantly giving. I love my people, I protect my people, I instruct my People, if they are my people they will listen. The context was not their that They were speaking to Him but That Elohim was speaking from Moses.

This is the same thing that Christ condensed everything in the Law and the Prophets to. Matthew 22:37-40. Both of them prime examples of Dath, not Torah.

Torah is the first five books, also called the books Moshe, the Pentateuch, Books of Law or usually just called the Law. It has the Instruction that God gave to live by but just as important It is here and here alone (the Epistles confirm it) that we have what is sin defined to us. Torah, which was given from God is what tells us what sin is. We also get the first promise of salvation and messianic prophecy here.

Nevi'im is the books of Prophets separated into two groups The early Prophets consisting of the narrative books of Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings; while the Latter Prophets include the books of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and The Twelve minor prophets.

There are many Instructions and decrees in Torah and Nevi'im .

You also have Ketuvim or writings such as Psalms, Proverbs, Job, Song of Solomon, Ruth, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes, Ester, Ezra-Nehemiah, Daniel and Chronicles I,II. Some Tanahk's have Daniel in the Prophet section some don't. In Ketuvim you will find Dath, decrees, and Prophecy all through out the writings. Most of that Dath though good examples weren't instruction for us because they were decrees of men to other men or decrees from man to God to follow but to high light what is going on. Timothy did say All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. But not all of Scripture is His commands (mitzvot), His Statues (chukkovt) and His instructions (vetovrot) some of it is History and testimony.

So I agree it is All about His Instructions and promise highlighted in Torah and Nevi'im.
Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.
No Argument Both great examples of instruction from Torah. Torah is Love, you instruct those you love how to be the best they can be. The messages of the Prophets {besides prophecy} was you don't love God that's why your not following His instructions.

I personal understand that Grace and Torah are part of the same covenant, the same House and Yeshua is the Door. You cant be in submission to someone without directions your suppose to submit to. The Ten commandments, its Torah, love thy neighbor, its Torah, Love God with all... its Torah again. If your not in submission your in rebellion. We submit because we love HIM and we know it pleases HIM. Like some wives we submit fully others only as much as we feel we should. Some times we say I'm not obligated to do that to justify not submitting to instruction. Which type of wife are you? What kind do you want? Just remember that when your wife does the same to you.

Its Grace and Torah, submit to Him and do what is asked of you. You receive a free unwarranted gift of a new car. You still have to up keep the car. Change the oil, What type of oil does it use? Gasoline or Diesel? Window wiper fluid, where's the tank? Do you need a funnel? So much more is needed to be done. If you what is needed to up keep that free unwarranted gift of a new car it'll break down and be worthless. It'll take you no where, and you'll miss the party and from what I've been told its to die for. So we have an instruction manual that tells you have to take care of the car. If someone neglects to take care of their own car because their to busy judging the way others are taking care of their own. its their own fault if they miss the party.

James 2:14-16

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone says he has faith, but does not have works? Can such faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in shalom, keep warm and well fed,” but you do not give them what the body needs, what good is that? 17 So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead by itself.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith without works and I will show you faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe—and shudder! 20 But do you want to know, you empty person, that faith without works is dead? 21 Wasn’t Abraham our father proved righteous by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? 22 You see that faith worked together with his works, and by the works his faith was made complete. 23 The Scripture was fulfilled that says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness”—and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a man is proved righteous by works and not by faith alone. 25 And likewise, wasn’t Rahab the prostitute also proved righteous by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

An Understanding that changed my life. Its pointless to argue with scripture. If we have faith but our Hearts have not changed to causes us to act. To submit and do the things He has instructed us to do like, Deuteronomy 15:11 I therefore command you, “Open your hand to the poor and needy neighbor in your land.” the example given in the "New Testament" book of James quoted above, then our faith is dead and no better than a Demons belief. Abraham had faith and out of Love he submitted.
 
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My faith is only in the finished work of Yeshua on the cross. Torah and grace are not opposed to one another.

Psalm 119:34 seems to differ... actually most of the Psalms seem to differ.

He gave us his law we should be striving to walk in it with his help. 1 John 2:1-6

So if the work of the Son of God is finished what else are we to do?


So are we to help God write His Law on our hearts?

Many many many years ago when God revealed Himself to me, I eventually came to the idea that for me to really be saved I needed to go before some alter in a church and confess my sins and say that regular prayer to be accepted. I went once, then twice, then I think three times over the course of a period of time. I kept thinking I had to do something to prove I'm saveable. I eventually realized that I don't need to do all that work, by faith I am saved. If you feel you need to keep striving, by all means don't let me stop you. As @Kevin point out for himself at some point here, that I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am saved and God will write the Laws He needs me to understand on my heart as He chooses.
 
My point is that keeping the commands is an act of obedience after salvation. And is the evidence of the salvation.

What happens when you aren't obedient to all the commandments? If you miss one you have missed them all. Does that prove you are not saved?
 
One side of this debate is patently ridiculous. There is no doubt that we are to follow some laws. Even Paul left the Council of Jerusalem with teaching some food restrictions, meat strangled and blood. Do you hear that? Even by grace Paul put dietary restrictions on you and required you to follow the Law in sexual matters. This idea that it's all passed away and we are living in some lawless new covenant anarchist commune is stupid. You can't reae scripture and not think you must obey, that there isn't some kind of Law. What the heyhira is HE WRITING ON YOUR HEARTS!?!?
The question is which Laws must we obey in order to prove our love for Him. Obedience is one of the central themes of the entire Bible.
 
What happens when you aren't obedient to all the commandments? If you miss one you have missed them all. Does that prove you are not saved?
With all the gentleness and humility I can muster, of course no one keeps the Law percectly. God was the friend of someone who didn't and He had the same kind of heart and someone else who didn't. Paul's faith waivered. Peter spent an entire ministry screwing it up. I'm not sure what would make you think that breaking the Law was an automatice damnation. No one I know thinks so. God wrote forgiveness in to the Law from the very beginning.
 
Trick question did anyone keep all 613 instructions. All the you must not do, you dos, if you do then you must also do this. Think about it before you answer.

Hint: there were laws that only applied to women, Levites, men who forced them self on a woman.

When you understand this you start to understand the meaning behind

James 2:10-12
10 For whoever keeps the whole Torah but stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For the one who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the Torah. 12 So speak and act as those who will be judged according to a Torah that gives freedom.

Just to be clear, Yeshua never violated a Law, never sinned.
 
The question is which Laws must we obey in order to prove our love for Him. Obedience is one of the central themes of the entire Bible.

OK which one? Maybe they are different for each person? No one ever said not following God, which is Law, is what we are to do. Since you and I can't keep the Law correctly even though we may try, thank God there is Grace. Wouldn't you agree?
 
One side of this debate is patently ridiculous. There is no doubt that we are to follow some laws.

Which one? Who decides? You since you have figured everything out? I for one wouldn't never say another view is ridiculous.
 
So @Pacman and @ZecAustin, let's get right to it. I don't follow a Sabbath, I eat pork, I don't go around in a beard, many others things I don't do, do you think I am saved? Do you even care?
 
What happens when you aren't obedient to all the commandments? If you miss one you have missed them all. Does that prove you are not saved?
1 John 2:1-6
 
So @Pacman and @ZecAustin, let's get right to it. I don't follow a Sabbath, I eat pork, I don't go around in a beard, many others things I don't do, do you think I am saved? Do you even care?

Not sure what a beard has to do with anything... of course I care I want everyone to have salvation. And I hope that you have true faith in the finished work on the cross.

I do believe that you should be eating clean and keeping Shabbat. But I’m not your judge God is and you will answer to him one day about what you did with his instructions. The modern teaching that Torah was done away with is false. And Peter warned us not to follow those who use Paul to teach that. 2 Peter 3:15-17

I’m curious if you took the time to cross reference what I pointed out earlier. 1 Peter 1:13-16 specifically pay attention to verse 16 and look at where “it is written” in context what is Peter telling those believers?
 
So @Pacman and @ZecAustin, let's get right to it. I don't follow a Sabbath, I eat pork, I don't go around in a beard, many others things I don't do, do you think I am saved? Do you even care?
You know I like you. We get along in person despite that at times we don't see eye to eye. This is not coming from a spirit of hate but a spirit of love. Serious question, Are you just being passive aggressive or Really questioning your salvation? If your questioning your salvation, you got issues you need to take to God. If your just being passive aggressive, what's your issue with others submitting to instructions from God? I understand the offense taken when others tell us what we believe is wrong. For example when someone says your not suppose to follow Torah. Its not just times when others state their belief that we're suppose to obey Torah. Its at times when Torah is even mentioned you tend to get passive aggressive, condescending, or out right condemning. I know I get out right aggressive and condescending at times too. So this is not a judgement of you but a man recognizing some of the same reactions he has in another man and coming as a brother. The passive aggression and condescending began before @ZecAustin s post on this thread and I know the way he presented his belief probably rubbed salt in the wound you have. We all have to admit this was a gentle post for him. He wasn't trying to attack you.

Can you give scripture in context that tells anyone not to submit to the instructions of God?

Can you give scripture that its wrong to obey Torah in context?

Would you be ok with another man telling your wife not to submit to your instructions if he felt that she shouldn't?

Are you ok with your wife choosing to only submit to the instructions what she felt she was obligated to follow?

If so great that's your relationship not @ZecAustin not @Pacman not mine.

For all Reading:
No man here is the Head of any man here. No one should be telling others what their relationship with our Spiritual Head should be. Submission to God is a biblical principle. The only propose of free will I've been able to see is to freely submit to him out of love to Him. In the end we are each individually accountable to Him. I want to meet my redeemer knowing that I submitted to every instruction of His I possibly could because I know what He's done for me and there's nothing I can do that would ever repay Him, I know what I should have coming to me without Him. Because submission to Him is the only way I have to truely show my love and appreciation.

I'm trying to live by this in my life and walk.

James 1:16-25

16 Do not be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow. 18 By His will, He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all He created.

19 Know this, my dear brothers and sisters: let every person be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to anger— 20 for human anger doesn’t produce the righteousness of God. 21 So put away all moral filth and excess of evil and receive with humility the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.

22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deluding yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror— 24 for once he looks at himself and goes away, he immediately forgets what sort of person he was. 25 But the one who looks intently into the perfect Torah, the Torah that gives freedom, and continues in it, not becoming a hearer who forgets but a doer who acts—he shall be blessed in what he does.

If anyone wants to condemn me or anyone for submitting to God in always possible out of love. I got a song for you.
 
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For all Reading:
No man here is the Head of any man here. No one should be telling others what their relationship with our Spiritual Head should be. Submission to God is a biblical principle. The only propose of free will I've been able to see is to freely submit to him out of love to Him. In the end we are each individually accountable to Him. I want to meet my redeemer knowing that I submitted to every instruction of His I possibly could because I know what He's done for me and there's nothing I can do that would ever repay Him, what know what I should have coming to me without Him. Because submission to Him is the only way I have to truely show my love and appreciation.
Love it, we all say our views and sometimes get into heated discussions, but only to teach or learn. Nice way to put @Kevin.
 
Jeremiah 31:33
[33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord , I will put my law (Torah) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The new covenant is based on Torah.

In this verse it says what God is going to do, where does it say what man is to do?

This is important. Why can't it be answered? Where in Jeremiah 31, the definition of the New Covenant, does it state what man is to do in this contract?
 
Not sure what a beard has to do with anything... of course I care I want everyone to have salvation. And I hope that you have true faith in the finished work on the cross.

I do believe that you should be eating clean and keeping Shabbat. But I’m not your judge God is and you will answer to him one day about what you did with his instructions. The modern teaching that Torah was done away with is false. And Peter warned us not to follow those who use Paul to teach that. 2 Peter 3:15-17

I’m curious if you took the time to cross reference what I pointed out earlier. 1 Peter 1:13-16 specifically pay attention to verse 16 and look at where “it is written” in context what is Peter telling those believers?

My reference to wearing a beard is in the same lines as wearing tassels, or head coverings for women, boxes on ones head, other such things related to old testament applications. Not a derogatory remark.

"But I’m not your judge God is and you will answer to him one day about what you did with his instructions."

And so will you.

"The modern teaching that Torah was done away with is false. And Peter warned us not to follow those who use Paul to teach that. 2 Peter 3:15-17

I’m curious if you took the time to cross reference what I pointed out earlier. 1 Peter 1:13-16 specifically pay attention to verse 16 and look at where “it is written” in context what is Peter telling those believers?


I have no idea why the thought keeps coming up that I said, Paul was a false prophet, Grace is done away with Law, miracles are a freeforall hippy fest, or certain parts of the bible should be removed. What I have stated is that your (and others) interpretations of the bible and mine could be different and that to suppress different views is harmful. Your interpretation of the verses you are wanting me to look up can easily be counted by me with the ones I want you to look up. Doesn't matter we will each hold to our interpretation. We are not children here easily swayed.
 
Your interpretation of the verses you are wanting me to look up can easily be counted by me with the ones I want you to look up.

Please point them out to me and I will look at them.

My reference to wearing a beard is in the same lines as wearing tassels

Except one is commanded in Torah and one is not.

head coverings for women, boxes on ones head, other such things related to old testament applications.

Neither of those things are found in Torah or anywhere else in the Old Testament.
 
You know I like you. We get along in person despite that at times we don't see eye to eye. This is not coming from a spirit of hate but a spirit of love. Serious question, Are you just being passive aggressive or Really questioning your salvation? If your questioning your salvation, you got issues you need to take to God. If your just being passive aggressive, what's your issue with others submitting to instructions from God? I understand the offense taken when others tell us what we believe is wrong. For example when someone says your not suppose to follow Torah. Its not just times when others state their belief that we're suppose to obey Torah. Its at times when Torah is even mentioned you tend to get passive aggressive, condescending, or out right condemning. I know I get out right aggressive and condescending at times too. So this is not a judgement of you but a man recognizing some of the same reactions he has in another man and coming as a brother. The passive aggression and condescending began before @ZecAustin s post on this thread and I know the way he presented his belief probably rubbed salt in the wound you have. We all have to admit this was a gentle post for him. He wasn't trying to attack you.

If so great that's your relationship not @ZecAustin not @Pacman not mine.


I have always respected your view. There are a few here, @PeteR, being another who hold the Torah view but yet humbly submit their views and at least listen to what others say who don't necessarily hold that view. However, Torah as a view and Not Torah as another view is not right either. There is God and All within Him. I believe in God. I have no issue with anyone who feels the need to submit to God in the way they see fit. It all is a form of worship to me. However anyone wants to worship God is up to them and not my concern. My concern is when a particular view is being forced on others. That's what this Torah stuff does to me. It has become religion to me. It is a judgement by some to others. The whole idea of Torah, Hebrew Roots, Messianic Jew is nothing but division to me. Torah people saying Grace people are wrong and Grace people are saying Torah people are wrong, division I tell you. The Torah, Five books of the bible, the LAW, whatever you want to call it is all within God, the One we are to serve. No one can do away with parts of God, all we can do is try and understand what makes Him up.

I do find it really strange that the words passive aggressive start being thrown around when it comes to conversions of this nature with certain individuals (passive aggressive enough for you :)) (Why does everyone have to protect this guy. I just don't get it.) I don't have any wounds as you say, I actually think any of these discussion with all the adjective uses when a idea is not liked becomes childish. But I have noticed, Torah people stick with Torah people and I guess that is to be expected. To me, and this is my opinion, and out of love (the same as you casing your post in love), dealing with Torah people is like dealing with what it seems Pharisees would have been (remember this is my opinion, nothing more). A religious thought that looked more at the rules than the Spirit of God.

When I was a child I was constantly getting in trouble with my dad because I would never put his tools away. I remember signs on the tool box , "Thy Shalt Put My Tools Away". For years and years I was beat, punished, whatever, I just couldn't get it.

Today, my garage is spotless, my tools (and I have a lot of them) are in their place. They always are. I know where they are. I know when one is missing. I replace them when they get old. I care for them.

In essence, my father wrote his law of keeping tools into my heart. I don't' worship my tools, and I don't worship the law to take care of them. I just do it.

No one is saying that the Law should be done away with. The Law is there for a reason. But I do have issue with anyone that tells me that I must worship the Law without understanding the Spirit of that Law.

By the way, my question of salvation was neither because I am unsaved or passive aggressive as you say, but to prove a point. I am saved and I follow the Law based on the Spiritual understanding that has been given to me, which I believe is the "written upon their hearts" means.
 
I’m just gonna put this right here....

“And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.”‭‭1 Samuel‬ ‭15:22-23‬
 
Please point them out to me and I will look at them.

Except one is commanded in Torah and one is not.

Neither of those things are found in Torah or anywhere else in the Old Testament.

Commanded or not there are some who do things out of the idea of hedges.
 
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