Making Progress on the church acceptance front

[Isaac]

Yeah...that is where I am thinking that I want to let her think about it a while, before I give her an opportunity to respond. My thought is that I won't send her anything until towards the end of the week, and when I do, it will be more of an apology for not sending her anything sooner. Giving her time to think about it, will allow her to pray about it and see what Scripture has to say about it, instead of responding with a knee jerk reaction. Then of course, I can hold off and apologize to her on Sunday, if and when we cross paths.

Let me get this straight, you’re going to purposefully not send her something until the end of the week and then apologize for not sending her something sooner? Sounds manipulative and deceitful. Why play these kinds of games? How is that a foundation for success?

 

[FollowingHim]

No. She won't get curious if she's just having a meal with you and your wife.

I should also clarify that she won't be curious if there's a reason for you to invite her to a meal. But if there's no reason she can think of at all, she'll be really curious.

Honestly, the more I think of it, the more I realise that my first statement was simply wrong in your case. Ignore it.

I said that initially based on my own experience. We have many visitors, including single women, and they aren't curious about why they have been invited. But that's solely because we only invite someone to a meal if there is some reason to do so - there's a purpose to the meeting as there's something else we are discussing, or we're already old friends, or they're a new person to the area and we'd like to get to know them, etc. If you have no reason she can see for inviting her to a meal, she'll probably be very curious as to why you did so.

If you want to invite her to a meal, best to have a genuine non-polygamy reason to do so.

 

[WifeOfHisYouth]

So wait, does she know you believe in plural marriage already?

 

[FollowingHim2]

I said that initially based on my own experience. We have many visitors, including single women, and they aren't curious about why they have been invited. But that's solely because we only invite someone to a meal if there is some reason to do so - there's a purpose to the meeting as there's something else we are discussing, or we're already old friends, or they're a new person to the area and we'd like to get to know them, etc.

And also, we're never assuming or even thinking that any single woman is a potential second wife. She is just a friend who we're meeting up with because we enjoy the friendship. There's no ulterior motive. There's no manipulation.

 

[Keith Martin]

You got her email because she was worried you would abuse her phone number? Did I read that right? That sounds like a caution sign. I would observe it.

She has had bad experiences in the past. Sheesh!

@The Revolting Man is simply reacting as most people would to having read your account: the safest place for you to live until she demonstrates otherwise is to assume that she isn't giving you her phone number not just because she's had bad experiences in the past but because she's not sure she can't be certain she's not going to have a bad experience with you. Talking in church is one thing. Going into the email level of intimacy is another, especially because it ends up being an actual digital record of what one writes.

I agree with those who have suggested that you orient yourself toward starting off inviting the woman to do something with both you and your wife, and if you're still worried that your wife won't participate and/or be willing to be the one to make the invitation, then you (like I) still have work to do at home.

 

[Keith Martin]

This is merely practice, brother.
....Practice, it’s merely practice. Getting yourself to accept that is really tough.

Awesome, Brother Trucker! And the practice is well worth it. Many of us in many realms of our lives never even inch toward our supposed goals, because at every moment in time we think we have a choice between going for the big one or remaining paralyzed. Just because a current situation isn't a sure thing isn't justification for failing to take baby steps. In fact, it's even more an argument for practicing the kind of behaviors one will need to acquire as second nature before one can put other human beings at ease about something as foreign to the mainstream as Biblical polygamy.

@Daniel DeLuca, I know how much you thirst for this, but you need practice engaging in the kinds of conversations that far preface those that will even mention polygamy. Be grateful that God has placed in your path a woman you consider attractive who will talk with you in church. Maybe take it to the next step and invite her to join you and your wife for coffee -- but then dial down your expectations and be grateful for the opportunity to simply practice having friendly conversations that include both your wife and another woman you find compelling. Remove the agendas and turn yourself into someone who has next to no awkwardness about low-level and perhaps even slightly playful social banter; that will prepare you for being able to move more seamlessly through that phase with the next 'prospect,' with whom you can then acquire significant practice with the next rung on the ladder toward first discussing polygamy as a concept and then, later, probably with someone else, suggesting polygamy as a potential mutual commitment.

 

[Keith Martin]

Do you have a lot of experience being a wingman? The guy tells you he's nervous, and you tell him, "you don't have much of a shot." Way to boost his confidence!

Have you been in this situation before? Has anyone here who has responded so far, been in this situation, or am I in unchartered waters?

I've been in dozens of such situations, @Daniel DeLuca, and I'm not the only one with significant practice, so you are not in uncharted waters.

Unfortunately, though, given the state of our culture, almost all the waters are unchartered.

 

[Keith Martin]

No. She won't get curious if she's just having a meal with you and your wife.

Unless the only topics of conversation you're capable of engaging in revolve around polygamy.

 

[rockfox]

Oh come on! I'm not doing anything creepy!

Doing? A woman's perception of a man's creepiness often has little to do with his actions. It's an intuition.

 

[Daniel DeLuca]

@The Revolting Man is simply reacting as most people would to having read your account: the safest place for you to live until she demonstrates otherwise is to assume that she isn't giving you her phone number not just because she's had bad experiences in the past but because she's not sure she can't be certain she's not going to have a bad experience with you. Talking in church is one thing. Going into the email level of intimacy is another, especially because it ends up being an actual digital record of what one writes.

I agree with those who have suggested that you orient yourself toward starting off inviting the woman to do something with both you and your wife, and if you're still worried that your wife won't participate and/or be willing to be the one to make the invitation, then you (like I) still have work to do at home.

My wife will definitely participate. She might even be willing to make the invitation. We talked about it last night, but got off course a bit, but we decided it is better to not have her over for dinner, at least on the first outing; just meet at a restaurant.

Awesome, Brother Trucker! And the practice is well worth it. Many of us in many realms of our lives never even inch toward our supposed goals, because at every moment in time we think we have a choice between going for the big one or remaining paralyzed. Just because a current situation isn't a sure thing isn't justification for failing to take baby steps. In fact, it's even more an argument for practicing the kind of behaviors one will need to acquire as second nature before one can put other human beings at ease about something as foreign to the mainstream as Biblical polygamy.

First baby step for me is composing the initial email.

@Daniel DeLuca, I know how much you thirst for this, but you need practice engaging in the kinds of conversations that far preface those that will even mention polygamy. Be grateful that God has placed in your path a woman you consider attractive who will talk with you in church. Maybe take it to the next step and invite her to join you and your wife for coffee -- but then dial down your expectations and be grateful for the opportunity to simply practice having friendly conversations that include both your wife and another woman you find compelling.

Coffee sounds like a good idea. I go for the hot chocolate myself.

Remove the agendas and turn yourself into someone who has next to no awkwardness about low-level and perhaps even slightly playful social banter; that will prepare you for being able to move more seamlessly through that phase with the next 'prospect,' with whom you can then acquire significant practice with the next rung on the ladder toward first discussing polygamy as a concept and then, later, probably with someone else, suggesting polygamy as a potential mutual commitment.

Gotcha! Gotta keep a lot of irons in the fire so to speak, until one of them looks like a serious candidate.

 

[Daniel DeLuca]

I've been in dozens of such situations, @Daniel DeLuca, and I'm not the only one with significant practice, so you are not in uncharted waters.

Unfortunately, though, given the state of our culture, almost all the waters are unchartered.

PM me with some of your experiences, when you get a chance. We can discuss this offline.

 

[Daniel DeLuca]

So wait, does she know you believe in plural marriage already?

To my knowledge, no. If she does though, and she is still willing to give out her info and "do something" during the week, in spite of that knowledge, I would take that as a good sign. I think the church doesn't want this to get out, which is why the orchestra director didn't give any specifics on why I was getting kicked out, but enough people do know, and it is hard to imagine that she couldn't find out, if she really wanted to know. I do come across people all the time though, who have no idea, or at least they act like they don't know, when I tell them. You would that think they would all know by now, but it is a funny thing. One of the people who I am friends with, requested my permission to share with his wife, as if I didn't want anybody to know.

 

[Daniel DeLuca]

I should also clarify that she won't be curious if there's a reason for you to invite her to a meal. But if there's no reason she can think of at all, she'll be really curious.

Honestly, the more I think of it, the more I realise that my first statement was simply wrong in your case. Ignore it.

I said that initially based on my own experience. We have many visitors, including single women, and they aren't curious about why they have been invited. But that's solely because we only invite someone to a meal if there is some reason to do so - there's a purpose to the meeting as there's something else we are discussing, or we're already old friends, or they're a new person to the area and we'd like to get to know them, etc. If you have no reason she can see for inviting her to a meal, she'll probably be very curious as to why you did so.

If you want to invite her to a meal, best to have a genuine non-polygamy reason to do so.

Yeah, and that gets back to my original question, of what I should tell her, if she does get curious. It's not that I don't want to let her know why, of course, but rather, I would much rather give her food for thought before going there. Of course, now that I have her email address, I don't even need to invite her to a meal at all, not that that was my original intent; I really did want to have lunch with her. Now that there is a line of communication that I can open though, where we can talk off-campus, sitting down for a meal, would be like icing on the cake, so to speak. Of course, when it comes to giving her that food for thought though, it might be better to do so in person.

Would you say you have had better experiences "Red-pilling" a prospective woman, after developing a friendship, or you just get shot down every single time?

 

[Daniel DeLuca]

Let me get this straight, you’re going to purposefully not send her something until the end of the week and then apologize for not sending her something sooner? Sounds manipulative and deceitful. Why play these kinds of games? How is that a foundation for success?

Yeah, you got a point there, although we do have a very hectic week, but I suppose I shouldn't hold off too much, at least on sending that introductory email.

 

[steve]

Let me get this straight, you’re going to purposefully not send her something until the end of the week and then apologize for not sending her something sooner? Sounds manipulative and deceitful. Why play these kinds of games? How is that a foundation for success?

Where do you draw the line in not withholding/managing the information?
I think that we all agree to not be coming out of the gate with full disclosure of our desires.

 

[Daniel DeLuca]

Doing? A woman's perception of a man's creepiness often has little to do with his actions. It's an intuition.

Right! Like a intuition that he wants to cheat on his wife, except that she was right there with me, the first time I offered to have her join us for lunch, which would be very odd for any man to do with his wife right there.

 

[Daniel DeLuca]

And also, we're never assuming or even thinking that any single woman is a potential second wife. She is just a friend who we're meeting up with because we enjoy the friendship. There's no ulterior motive. There's no manipulation.

Yeah, we have a lot of friends for which there can be no ulterior motive, and I can assure you, that unless her husband dies prematurely, the woman won't be the next Mrs. DeLuca.

 

[rockfox]

Right! Like a intuition that he wants to cheat on his wife, except that she was right there with me, the first time I offered to have her join us for lunch, which would be very odd for any man to do with his wife right there.

"How's the weather?" he said creepily.

It needn't have anything to do with logic or the content of the interaction.

 

[Isaac]

Where do you draw the line in not withholding/managing the information?
I think that we all agree to not be coming out of the gate with full disclosure of our desires.

I’m not a “hunter” of the ladies as some men on here are. My ladies have jokingly said I’m more of a “gatherer”, so I don’t have the experience in situations like these. For me, it’s rather simple, manipulation, deceit, and lying is where I would draw the line. In my view, what was described as a possible plan of action, falls into that category, which amounts to playing games. Boys play games, not men. And quality women don’t want boys who play games. They want a man.

I can understand a need of when to “break the news” so to speak. And that can certainly be done with care and consideration, but I don’t see the need for trickery. I’m a rather straight-forward person. In his shoes, which I admittedly have never been, I’d be upfront and honest about my beliefs, desires, and intent. This would likely be done during a first meeting whether that be dinner with the family or me alone with her for a meal of coffee or whatever. If she inquired, upon my invitation, as to my motives before accepting the invitation, I’d simply tell her the truth then and lay my cards on the table. It’s pretty simple to me, but again, I’m no hunter of women. It may likely crash and burn, but I’m okay with that. If it’s meant to be, it will be. If not, a seed was planted and the idea is now in her head for one of you other gents to come along down the road and reap the harvest.

 

[rockfox]

My ladies have jokingly said I’m more of a “gatherer”

How did that gathing come about if I may ask?

I'm always curious what paths brought women into a poly relationship since it happens so infrequently.