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Making Progress on the church acceptance front

Well loved wife said:
Ironically, the church we were dismissed from accepted a lesbian couple just days/weeks after we left. As far as I know they’re still there. One would think it would hurt, for some reason it cracked me up. I guess you get to a point- it makes more sense to laugh your face off then cry your eyes out about a club you have the whole congregation vote you in, but one man can dismiss you. I’m honestly glad we’re no longer part of that rat race... now adays, I get to flirt with my preacher:D @Church on the Couch. It’s so funny, our kids get the best responses when they answer the question ‘where do you go to church?’ And then the what denomination are you- ‘my dad’s and God’s’... I smile and nod.
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That is just beautiful, @Well loved wife!
 
I had dinner last night with one of the other trombone players. That was quite interesting! He said that he was told that I am still allowed to put the music folders away after the 11:00 service. Also. it looks like they are willing to let me come back in a couple of weeks. According to him, the worship minister said that he "believes in redemption". His remark was that I was told not to do something, and I did it any way, with no specifics. My friend told me that it was announced that I would not be in the orchestra for a month, and that the matter was confidential, and asked people to pray for my family. I'll bet it is confidential! Of course I got a bit of a laugh out of that matter of prayimg for my family. Well, word is getting around the orchestra any how, because enough people do know, so I am just sitting back and letting my absence be felt. I have also been holding my wife close as often as possible when we are together in the church.

My friend indicated that the church is probably OK with me having a second wife, if I do so discretely. Now if that isn't progress, I don't know what is. I figure that if that is the case, and one day I do get a second wife, she will have to belong to a different church, but I don't mind going to her church every now and then, just to show my face and attend the parent child dedication services that we will have when chldren arrive. It will be cool to let people in her church know that I am the father, and that she is not some single mother who got pregnant out of wedlock.

On Sunday, I spoke with the former orchestra director, and she said that they missed me, and I said that I missed them too. I told a few other people at church that I had gotten booted out of the orchestra, but I gave no specifics. I figure I'll let them do their own inquiry! :)

On a side note, my wife rehashed her insecurities as we were on the way home from me picking her up from her workplace, asking whether I still loved her. I told her that I still do, and that will never change. My little boy was in the back seat, and hr asked, "What if we get a second mommy? Will you still love her?" I repeated that I will still love her. She told him not to ask that, but he did so, a second and thirf or fourth time, and each time, I repeated that I will always love mommy, no matter what! She repeated her command in exasperation, telling him not to ask that question, to no avail, and I repeated my answer each time. :) I still believe that one day she will come around. That always brings a smile to my face.
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
My friend indicated that the church is probably OK with me having a second wife, if I do so discretely. Now if that isn't progress, I don't know what is. I figure that if that is the case, and one day I do get a second wife, she will have to belong to a different church, but I don't mind going to her church every now and then, just to show my face and attend the parent child dedication services that we will have when chldren arrive. It will be cool to let people in her church know that I am the father, and that she is not some single mother who got pregnant out of wedlock.
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I’d like to bring something to your attention, from a woman’s point of view.
1. A husband sends his wife to be taught doctrine by another man is potentially dangerous.
2. Men sending their wives to another church has the potential of causing ridicule of the man she’s supposedly with, which can open a big door for temptation and dissatisfaction in her heart. In other words a single man takes notice of somewhat single gal. Hmmm, she may be lonely... you get my drift.

3. Where’s the Unity? Would you send your first wife to a church of her choice without you now while you stay where you are at your church?
I’m sorry I just see a disconnect with a family unit. If a woman belongs to a man, she belongs with the family as a unit, otherwise its still trying to fit the monogamous lifestyle in a polygamous relationship. I just see potential problems. But, I’m sure there are families living PM going to separate churches for various reasons and it works for them. My 2 cents
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
My friend indicated that the church is probably OK with me having a second wife, if I do so discretely.
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So, as long as you pretend that she’s just your mistress, side piece, booty call?
Just as long as you don’t pretend that she is an actual wife?
Not seeing the progress in that.
 
The institution we know of as church is all about holding onto its stolen authority
That’s your god given authority
I believe the issue is not about taking another wife or polygamy
It’s much bigger and important than that
The issue is about claiming your rightful place and the god given authority which was given to you
Polygamy is one symptom (not the only one) not the cause
As long as you bow to the institution of churchanity you will be safe from their wrath
( be discrete , don’t ask questions,do this or that, be a good boy ,play nice)
All to in effect hold you back
I would be careful with your family .Be the best possible husband /father you can be with what you got
Take your rightful position and stand and prepare to face the consequences
Rest in your gods approval not theirs
 
steve said:
So, as long as you pretend that she’s just your mistress, side piece, booty call?
Just as long as you don’t pretend that she is an actual wife?
Not seeing the progress in that.
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Exactly, that's the default behavior with everyone.
 
steve said:
So, as long as you pretend that she’s just your mistress, side piece, booty call?
Just as long as you don’t pretend that she is an actual wife?
Not seeing the progress in that.
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Ultimately, progress will have to be made at the convention level, as they are the ones who are pulling the strings, and I didn't get the impression that I would have to pretend that she is any of those things. In her church, she could be seen as my wife, and in mine, I just keep quiet about even having a second.

I also spoke with my friend about the individual who plaued the role of Jesus in our pageant, because in his video testimony he gave earlier this year, he spoke of having a "former" wife and having remarried. I am hoping it gets back to him, that according to Scripture, he has two wives.
 
Well loved wife said:
I’d like to bring something to your attention, from a woman’s point of view.
1. A husband sends his wife to be taught doctrine by another man is potentially dangerous.
2. Men sending their wives to another church has the potential of causing ridicule of the man she’s supposedly with, which can open a big door for temptation and dissatisfaction in her heart. In other words a single man takes notice of somewhat single gal. Hmmm, she may be lonely... you get my drift.

3. Where’s the Unity? Would you send your first wife to a church of her choice without you now while you stay where you are at your church?
I’m sorry I just see a disconnect with a family unit. If a woman belongs to a man, she belongs with the family as a unit, otherwise its still trying to fit the monogamous lifestyle in a polygamous relationship. I just see potential problems. But, I’m sure there are families living PM going to separate churches for various reasons and it works for them. My 2 cents
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Well, it's simply a matter of sticking with our respective churches as long as possible, in order to influence as many as possible while it is possible to do so. I also spoke to my friend about the very real possibility that I might one day start my own church. As we were about to leave the restaurant, I mentioned that I don't want our pastor to publicly acknowledge the truth of polygamy (assuming that he ultimately comes to the realization that it is not forbidden), if that will result in him getting thrown out of the pulpit, since that will not do anyone any good. He somewhat jokingly said that if that were to happen, he could pastor the church that I start. I responded that there are already enough pastors who have been thrown out of their churches, that I won't have any difficulty finding one.
 
rockfox said:
Why does this feel like grade school drama.
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I thought the whole "Confidential" bit, and "pray for his marriage" remark, was something you guys would find interesting. I wanted to know myself, whether I was still allowed to serve in that capacity, because I don't want the leadership to think that I am taking my ball and going home, so to speak. My wife has not been attending rehearsaks, but I insisted she still sing in the choir, because I don't want these folks to think that I am exacting any sort of revenge.
 
I didn't mean you. I meant their behavior. Specifically the 'you can't be in the orchestra but we'll let him pick up the folders' bit.
 
steve said:
So, as long as you pretend that she’s just your mistress, side piece, booty call?
Just as long as you don’t pretend that she is an actual wife?
Not seeing the progress in that.
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I also spoke with him about the legal aspect. since my intent is to find a state that is willing to grant a waiver, and he said that apparently, in Texas, there is some law on the books that prevents someone from bringing a marriage legally recognized in another state, into the satate of Texas, but he could not recall the statute. I responded by saying that I did not think such a law could stand up to a Constitutional challenge since DOMA got struck fown, but if what he says is true, I might have to seek a waiver from that law here in Texas, or simply move to that state that does grant a waiver. Needless to say, I don't think anyone could accuse me of having a side chick, if I am able to pull something loke that off, but that is a bridge I am not even able to attempt to cross right now.
 
I think you're thinking too far ahead. You've got one wife, and a present church. Just deal with them.
If another wife comes along, by then you'll probably have been permanently kicked out of the church anyway, or have moved for work, or God will have called you elsewhere, so none of your careful planning will matter at all. And you can just worship together as a family, somewhere else.
You truly don't know what the future holds. Tomorrow can worry about itself, today has enough trouble of its own. Just live today.
 
Mat 6:31,34 "Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."

Saying "What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?" sounds to me like useless worrying, not useful considering of how to achieve a goal.

Contrast with....

Luke 14:28+ "For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish."

Pro 4:26 "Ponder the path of thy feet, and let all thy ways be established."
 
If you're planning something concrete, like a tower, you know all the factors and can control them.

But if you're planning something where you don't even know the basic factors involved - for instance whether you'll marry a second woman, when, who, where, or what circumstances you'll be living in at the time, that's not planning. It is either fantasising or worrying, or both. And that's unprofitable, because you can come up with all sorts of detailed scenarios but they'll most likely be different to what you actually end up facing when (and if) the time comes. So they're a waste of time.

Both of those contrasting themes of scripture are true. They just apply to different situations. Figuring out which is which is the key.
 
FollowingHim said:
If you're planning something concrete, like a tower, you know all the factors and can control them.

But if you're planning something where you don't even know the basic factors involved - for instance whether you'll marry a second woman, when, who, where, or what circumstances you'll be living in at the time, that's not planning. It is either fantasising or worrying, or both. And that's unprofitable, because you can come up with all sorts of detailed scenarios but they'll most likely be different to what you actually end up facing when (and if) the time comes. So they're a waste of time.

Both of those contrasting themes of scripture are true. They just apply to different situations. Figuring out which is which is the key.
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Well, I am just going off the feedback I received from my friend. If anyone thinks that my future efforts to be discrete about it, are anything but an effort to keep the unity of the brotherhood, I understand the arguments of those of you who wish to marry in a non-legal sense, but if I can find a way to do so legally, that has been my intent all along, so discrete, yes.....side chick, NO!
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
I understand the arguments of those of you who wish to marry in a non-legal sense, but if I can find a way to do so legally, that has been my intent all along
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By "legal", do you mean that you want your second wife to be recognised by secular law as your legal wife in addition to your first wife?

Why?
 
FollowingHim said:
By "legal", do you mean that you want your second wife to be recognised by secular law as your legal wife in addition to your first wife?

Why?
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I would like to explore whether this is possible in our day and age, here in America. I sat in the worship leader's office in our church yesterday. He said that he was not giving me an ultimatum, but I don't know what else you can call it. He said that in order for me to resume playing in the church orchestra, he laid out three things I must do. I don't recall what the second item was, because I did not find it too objectionable, but the first was somewhat objectionable, and the third was out of the question, unacceptable. He told me that I must commit to never sending the pastor any more emails, when he says things that I disagree with, and he said that I must renounce polygamy and promise never to take a second wife. So much for progress!

Anyhow, we had a rather long discussion, and he kept throwing out one accusation after another, and when I refuted them, he told me that I was looking for a loophole. I told him that there is no loophole, because there is nothing wrong with polygamy. He claimed that I was trying to justify myself, and I responded that I need no justification for that which is not sin. He claimed that polygamy is adultery, and his proof text was Matt 5:28. He is well aware of the fact that Matthew consistenetly used that word to describe a wife, but that didn't matter to him. I pointed out that for a single man to have sexual relations with a single woman, it is not adultery, and he could not seem to grasp how that is proof that Jesus could not possibly have been talking about looking at an unmarried woman. In his mind, it is still sin, but he completely missed the connection that I drew.

Not to get too bogged down in how that conversation went, as I will post more about that later, but to answer your question, one of the things he kept saying is that the pastor is the ultimate authority, and for me to disagree with him, creates disunity. I pointed out that we disagree on Lordship salvation, Predestination, and even the age of the universe, but that is something that we can all agree to disagree on, and his respomse to that, was that polygamy is illegal, which is not the case with the other three items that I brought up. So yeah, I would like to see if it is possible here in the United States, to legally do what is not so illegal in places like South Africa.
 
Technically, polygamy is not illegal based on spiritual principles. Bigamy is illegal based on state certification of marriage. The thing that makes it all confusing is the idea of common law marriage, which in some states, pushes a non legal relationship (not defined in legal civil procedures) into a illegal one based on time.
 
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