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Prayer request Meeting the Pastors

Daniel DeLuca said:
That is awesome! Shower her with affection, but if she pulls back, don't push it. It may take some time, but she will miss out on that affection that she craves. There is sort of a catch-22 going on here. She won't believe you love her, and won't let go of monogamy, because you are perceived to desire polygamy. That will be interpreted as not desiring her, and when you make an attempt to show her the love that you have for her, in her mind, she will question your motives for doing so. Do it anyway! She needs to know that you love her and desire her, and that you want her. One thing I have discovered recently, is that we as men desire our wives, and they need us. Sort of like how God desires us, and we need Him. So often, they project, wanting to know why you need a second wife, when the fact is, you don't really even need the first one! Help her understand this. She needs you to desire her. God doesn't need us, but He desires to have us. She projects her own needs, thinking that if you don't need her, you won't want her. Then, she extends that to want to know why you need a second wife. Of course you don't need one. You want one. God gave you that desire. I found it so liberating to tell people that God has given me this desire. That forces them to try to argue that God would never give you the desire to sin. I agree; God gives you the desire to marry, and that desire is not sinful.

I strongly suspect that if you fail to follow all of the recommended steps from your pastor, Grace won't hold you to them. We often project our own logical thinking onto our wives. That's not how they work! If Grace sees how much you desire her, she won't care if you follow those recommendations. She admires you, but this whole polygamy thing has left her with a world of uncertainty, and she does not know how to handle it emotionally. The thing is, you could follow every one of those steps, and she could still walk out on you. You could follow none of them, and she could still stay with you.

The patriarchy thing is a good idea, but it might be too soon to drop that on her. Down the road, it certainly is something you will need to adopt, but that is only after you know that she is not ready to bolt, at least right away. The funny thing is, when you shower her with love, she will probably have the mistaken idea, that you are no longer interested in polygamy. She will have to have three or four "rude awakenings", and each time, this will further reinforce the notion in her mind, that you are only showering her with love, in order to get her to come around, which means that you don't genuinely love her, but rather, you are putting on a show. That "Red Pill" that we have been posting about, comes in handy as you go along, because she will see you acting differently, and she will like it, and she won't. It will come across as very masculine of you, but she has grown accustomed to a less masculine you, and she will want you to stop, which is where the disciplinary measures will be useful. You can't go back to that feminized self that you have been led to believe that you are supposed to be.

I knew my wife was ready to accept PM, when she told me that she could feel God's love for her, through me. Women are self-doubters, and Grace will try harder to be a better wife, in a vain effort to make you no longer desire what God Himself has given you the desire for. She wraps her sense of self worth and her identity, in your desire for her. It is difficult for her to see that polygamy and your efforts to get her to come around, are in fact a result of your desire to keep her. You don't really need her, but you want her anyhow, but that is hard for her to wrap her mind around. God gave you the desire to have her, and you don't want to lose her.

It's funny with this Covid-19, our church is doing online services, but we watched a couple of them, and my older son doesn't like that, so now, Sunday mornings or afternoons or evenings are "preacher daddy" time. I know Scripture well enough, but I am really having to sharpen up my presentation skills, as I am not big on public speaking. I do much better in one on one, or one on two or three settings. Getting stretched is not fun, but it's cool.
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You are preaching to Elihu dude. I have never met you but I recognize your good heart. I am sure your good advice is needed by someone.
 
Gary Slaughenhaupt said:
Never forget! the Perfect Father, the perfect Husband was rebelled against. I am not perfect, just following in His footsteps... I accept suffering, affliction and persecution to obtain the goals of my Master. Thank you @Mojo and @rockfox for your encouragement.
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Another thought.

Her running to church leaders might not be as bad as it looks to you or us on the surface. Perhaps this was really her act of love, not hate. The mind of a woman is complex on this matter. I'm thinking she may have been reaching out to them to help save her marriage, not sabotage it, or punish you. This may have been her desperation move to save what she values a whole lot....your love.
 
Mojo said:
Another thought.

Her running to church leaders might not be as bad as it looks to you or us on the surface. Perhaps this was really her act of love, not hate. The mind of a woman is complex on this matter. I'm thinking she may have been reaching out to them to help save her marriage, not sabotage it, or punish you. This may have been her desperation move to save what she values a whole lot....your love.
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...as if it were threatened. Gary never had any intention to leave.
 
Mojo said:
You're not a woman.
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Yup. I found it helpful to explain to her that our marriage was not in danger unless she were to leave, and since she was the one concerned about it, I suspected that she wasn't about to leave. It's funny how the monogamy mindset can squirrel with a woman's thinking! :p
 
Mojo said:
Another thought.

Her running to church leaders might not be as bad as it looks to you or us on the surface. Perhaps this was really her act of love, not hate. The mind of a woman is complex on this matter. I'm thinking she may have been reaching out to them to help save her marriage, not sabotage it, or punish you. This may have been her desperation move to save what she values a whole lot....your love.
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Going to the pastors was my alternative to her demand for marriage counseling and also works towards my goal of exposing the lie in the church. It was something I felt God wanted me to do.
 
Gary Slaughenhaupt said:
Going to the pastors was my alternative to her demand for marriage counseling and also works towards my goal of exposing the lie in the church. It was something I felt God wanted me to do.
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My bad. I'll go back and read your testimony a little closer before I comment on your situation again.

However, I would still like for you to consider her mindset in all of this. It may not be as evil and rebellious as it may appear from the outside. When a woman hears about poly, no matter how well you explain it, all she hears is "Honey, after all these years, I'm trading you in for a newer model." Under those circumstances, 'fight or flight' kicks in. She's chosen fight, which, even though it appears bad, is better than the alternative. The task ahead is what some of us have encouraged you. You don't have to back down from your beliefs, but SHOW her you are the husband (caretaker) you have always been and that you don't want that to change. In other words, don't recede, or give up on her. That will just fulfill her worst nightmares about poly. Fill the space she thinks will be missing. You don't have to win with the best argument. You need to love with the best heart as scripture tells us to.

Others may disagree and say you need to get firm and serious. I'll let you decide. This is just my advise.
 
Gary Slaughenhaupt said:
she is not the enemy, the deceiver is.

The pastors, are not my enemy, the father of lies is!
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Yeah! I get the impression that the stipulations laid out by those pastors, was intent on getting you to change your mind to conform to their thinking. If they were looking for a solution to keep her from bolting, the only solution they could think of, was to get you to change your mind. People think of these pastors as experts, but really, they were just winging it.
 
Gary Slaughenhaupt said:
she is not the enemy, the deceiver is.

The pastors, are not my enemy, the father of lies is!
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Unlike the overwhelming majority of men on here, I've not been burned for my beliefs, so I have a different perspective. It may be naive, but it's still my reality. My wife is still here, but she's had the inner battles. I still attend my church, but have been wise as a serpent for when and how my beliefs get out. I'm often called on to teach at my church. In God's providence, I've been asked to contribute during studies on the life of Jacob, Joseph, and David. I've planted some great seeds. Indirectly, but with pointed examples, I've managed to get the point across.

At this point, prepare for the worst, but hope for the best. I will await your report, but would encourage you to be wise as a serpent in determining the intents of the church leadership as well. Perhaps they don't view you as the enemy either. Their methods and recommendations seem absolutely ridiculous on the surface, but like @Daniel DeLuca stated, they may have just been winging it. You're probably the first such case in all their lives! They don't know what to make of it, so they are trying to cure you of a disease you don't have. Be patient. Will pray.
 
Them attempting to put your wife under a different man's headship and your pastor's recommending divorce seems like a worse outcome than marriage counseling or just refusing to do marriage counseling.
 
rockfox said:
Them attempting to put your wife under a different man's headship and your pastor's recommending divorce seems like a worse outcome than marriage counseling or just refusing to do marriage counseling.
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I don't think they are recommending divorce just agreeing she can separate. She doesn't want to divorce me. And how would marriage counseling help when it would be focused on making her happy by agreeing that I am wrong and patriarchy is bad?
 
Gary Slaughenhaupt said:
And how would marriage counseling help when it would be focused on making her happy by agreeing that I am wrong and patriarchy is bad?
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Could you attend "marriage counselling" by meeting with a strong monogamous couple from this forum? Someone who could help the two of you work on your marriage, without making that marriage improvement dependent upon accepting or rejecting any particular view of polygamy or any other peripheral theological matter? The point is for you both to have a strong marriage, and for her to know you are faithful and trustworthy.

Firstly, you have promised not to take another wife while she objects. If she truly trusts that promise, your marriage will be safe even while she objects to polygamy. So the first step is to show you are trustworthy and keep your promises - and get her to emotionally accept that.
From that, for her to trust your leadership in all matters, knowing you are trustworthy and sincere.
From that, for her to accept your leadership in spiritual matters, and to be willing to sit under your instruction not under the instruction of others.
Along the way, for you to learn what you need to improve also to be a better husband.

All the while knowing that this is NOT a step-by-step approach to get her to accept polygamy and get you a second wife, thereby undermining point 1 and showing the entire thing to have been deceptive and dishonest. Quite the opposite. You have made her a promise. She may never accept the idea of you taking another wife, and you may never have another wife. This is the probable outcome - most of us are monogamous. The point is purely to improve your monogamous marriage, not to achieve polygamy. Even her accepting your leadership in spiritual matters is simply to improve your monogamous marriage, not to achieve another outcome.

Positive marriage counselling is possible, but won't be found in most churches.
 
FollowingHim said:
Could you attend "marriage counselling" by meeting with a strong monogamous couple from this forum? Someone who could help the two of you work on your marriage, without making that marriage improvement dependent upon accepting or rejecting any particular view of polygamy or any other peripheral theological matter? The point is for you both to have a strong marriage, and for her to know you are faithful and trustworthy.

Firstly, you have promised not to take another wife while she objects. If she truly trusts that promise, your marriage will be safe even while she objects to polygamy.
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The crazy part, which was in my reply to the pastors, was that I have promised to keep my marriage vows which includes "I will be committed to you alone. By God's grace and in his strength I will keep these vows till death due us part." And I also stated my value of the sacredness of vows as "I understand that a vow, even made under a cloud of deception, is still binding as can be seen in Israel’s dealings with the Gibeonites."

My guess is this is more about the feelings involved in being associated with me publicly discussing this. Even though outside of this forum it has only been discussed in that meeting and with my youngest son.
 
FollowingHim said:
I think he means when the man YOU are accountable to deems you are ready, then you "and Grace too" should seek marriage counselling. I think that is poorly worded and bad grammar, so easy to misunderstand, but as there is a way to understand it that is not placing her under the headship of another man I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

Of course, making you accountable to another man, but him not accountable to you, is a highly questionable arrangement. Plenty of men enter into voluntary accountability arrangements where both are accountable to each other to hold each other to a high standard, and that is good. It is simply acting as brothers. But he is asking you to place yourself under another man's authority, not a reciprocal accountability relationship, which is something else entirely. He's even said that you shouldn't start marriage counselling until another man says you're "ready" - so he's actually telling you NOT to seek marriage counselling, and placing this other man in authority even over the decision to enter into marriage counselling with your wife!
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I didn't read this wrong. I was informed that our youth pastor who I served under for 11 years was appointed to this. Ironically, this man is the only one at our church who has sought my counsel when he was unsure. I pity him and how he may be being used.
 
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