Amen
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- Thread starter AlexaH
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If it wasn't already entirely clear to other readers (@AlexaH has already been told this plenty behind the scenes), I want to officially state as forum administrator that the way @AlexaH states that she has been treated is NOT acceptable in any way, is not what Christian polygamy should be, is not normal, and is frankly despicable. The mission of this forum is to try and help people have good, sound marriages (whether monogamous or polygamous). Other readers should be very clear that this sort of treatment of a woman is neither promoted nor tolerated here.
Marriage is serious, and is for life (bar very narrow scriptural exceptions, none of which remotely apply in this case).
Marriage is serious, and is for life (bar very narrow scriptural exceptions, none of which remotely apply in this case).
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Sadly, the way this man ditched his wife, is too often met with approval in the local church.
That’s because the churches mostly belong to men, not to the Creator.
I would argue that it is because they have not shed that particular yoke of slavery that they were laden with, before breaking away from the Catholic "church". As a result, they have defined "affairs" as adultery, and anything not deemed "legal" is what they consider to be an affair. So in their convoluted thinking, he did the "right thing" by "stopping the affair" between him and his "mistress".
I think it's more accurate to say they mostly belong to women
True, the women just allow the men to pull the whistle in the train engine.
Except for when there’s women pastors.
Of course the way a lot of churches idolize the pastor's wife.....
When they promote the two of them as "co-pastors"?
I hadn't thought about that, but yeah, especially when they promote the "co-pastor" concept. Of course, that word "pastor" is misused in our churches today, as a pastor is really someone who is a shepherd who protects the flock from harm and from error. "Preacher" would be a better term for someone who proclaims the truth, but today, our churches have one man who wears several hats. Of course, I have never been a fan of the term "Reverend" either. "Bishop" is probably the best term. OK, if I continue to derail this thread any further, we might have to start a new one.
@Tesfalcon, it's good to see you turn up here to discuss this, thankyou.
However, I have deleted the document you shared, because it was far too highly personal, and is not something that the general public (the readers here) need to have access to. It also contains personal details about your first wife that she'd probably be rather upset about the public reading, so I expect you'd regret posting it yourself and want to delete it later anyway for her sake, I'm doing you both a favour deleting it first.
If @AlexaH has misrepresented the situation, can you please just state how she has misrepresented it? We are always acutely aware that we are only hearing one side of a conversation when one person comes here for support, and are quite open to corrections. But until we have any corrections we offer support and advice based on the information we have to hand (hence all of our above conversation), because that is all we have to go on, and we have someone here who clearly wants help, advice and prayer so we do what we can with what we know.
Please note that this is a marriage support forum, and our desire is to help your family. I say this as a neutral person offering support, do not perceive me as an ally of @AlexaH and think this is a fight. It's not. We're here to help her, and to help you, if that is possible.
Sharing the detail that you did cannot help move towards any sort of positive outcome, it can only inflame tensions further and make the situation worse. And our desire is to help improve the situation, if that is possible. So it has been deleted not as a rejection of your perspective, but rather in an attempt to keep this conversation on a positive footing.
However, I have deleted the document you shared, because it was far too highly personal, and is not something that the general public (the readers here) need to have access to. It also contains personal details about your first wife that she'd probably be rather upset about the public reading, so I expect you'd regret posting it yourself and want to delete it later anyway for her sake, I'm doing you both a favour deleting it first.
If @AlexaH has misrepresented the situation, can you please just state how she has misrepresented it? We are always acutely aware that we are only hearing one side of a conversation when one person comes here for support, and are quite open to corrections. But until we have any corrections we offer support and advice based on the information we have to hand (hence all of our above conversation), because that is all we have to go on, and we have someone here who clearly wants help, advice and prayer so we do what we can with what we know.
Please note that this is a marriage support forum, and our desire is to help your family. I say this as a neutral person offering support, do not perceive me as an ally of @AlexaH and think this is a fight. It's not. We're here to help her, and to help you, if that is possible.
Sharing the detail that you did cannot help move towards any sort of positive outcome, it can only inflame tensions further and make the situation worse. And our desire is to help improve the situation, if that is possible. So it has been deleted not as a rejection of your perspective, but rather in an attempt to keep this conversation on a positive footing.
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The relevant question I think @Tesfalcon is addressing is whether he kicked out @AlexaH, or whether she decided to leave herself. To inform this discussion, I have gone through the document and I'll give an independent assessment of that one issue here.
Ultimately, it is disputable whether @AlexaH decided to leave, or @Tesfalcon told her to leave. It appears that the topic of leaving had been raised in many arguments over a long period of time, and it is quite possible for each of them to claim it was the other's idea. I expect that both fervently believes it was instigated by the other, and any debate on that point would not get to a resolution.
In this particular conversation, which by the tone I am guessing is probably an example of many similar past conversations, @Tesfalcon raises the topic of leaving first, but as a question of "are you going to leave over this as you keep threatening to?" (my paraphrase). That means that @AlexaH can genuinely say 'he suggested I should leave first' and @Tesfalcon can genuinely say 'it was her decision'.
But it does appear that @AlexaH's claim that she was booted out and is now forced to live in her car is highly suspect. At no time in this conversation does @Tesfalcon actually tell her to leave. Rather, it is @AlexaH who is discussing plans to leave, arranging how to get car keys etc. She appears to be planning and arranging this while at home with the first wife, with @Tesfalcon not even there but talking to him by text message.
I think it is important that we do not assume @AlexaH is entirely a victim here.
Ultimately, it is disputable whether @AlexaH decided to leave, or @Tesfalcon told her to leave. It appears that the topic of leaving had been raised in many arguments over a long period of time, and it is quite possible for each of them to claim it was the other's idea. I expect that both fervently believes it was instigated by the other, and any debate on that point would not get to a resolution.
In this particular conversation, which by the tone I am guessing is probably an example of many similar past conversations, @Tesfalcon raises the topic of leaving first, but as a question of "are you going to leave over this as you keep threatening to?" (my paraphrase). That means that @AlexaH can genuinely say 'he suggested I should leave first' and @Tesfalcon can genuinely say 'it was her decision'.
But it does appear that @AlexaH's claim that she was booted out and is now forced to live in her car is highly suspect. At no time in this conversation does @Tesfalcon actually tell her to leave. Rather, it is @AlexaH who is discussing plans to leave, arranging how to get car keys etc. She appears to be planning and arranging this while at home with the first wife, with @Tesfalcon not even there but talking to him by text message.
I think it is important that we do not assume @AlexaH is entirely a victim here.
I work 70 hrs/wk & doing a complete house rehab. If u want the full, unedited conversation, email me: tesfalcon@yahoo.com.
@Tesfalcon, I think the real question for @AlexaH is:
Do you want her to leave?
Do you want to divorce her?
What is your decision as the head of this marriage?
Do you want her to leave?
Do you want to divorce her?
What is your decision as the head of this marriage?
It's important to move past the he-said / she-said emotive bit and find a firm foundation of decision, and scripture, from which @AlexaH and yourself can move forward. Don't feel any need to answer my last question here right now, it's a rather major matter. And whatever your answer there will be obviously serious implications which you may or may not wish to discuss with us here. You may not even want to say your answer here. But that really is the key question that @AlexaH needs a clear answer on so she can know where she stands - is she a rebellious runaway, or a divorcee?
1Co 7:12 — 16
But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy. Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace. For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?
But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy. Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace. For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?
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