• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

One Flesh - a biological perspective

Exactly @AbrahamSolomon. I am asking about the implications of what you have stated. It is the implications that actually matter for our lives. The only reason to study scripture is to figure out what we are to DO about it - in other words, to work out what the implications are to our lives. If the ideas we have cannot be applied to real life, and are just hypothetical theological concepts, they are pointless.

I am trying to move past theology, and on to what this actually means for people. My question is, how do you apply your understanding of "one flesh" to real-world situations. In particular:

If you cannot answer these questions, there is no point in you even having an opinion on the subject, as you're not using that opinion.

We all have a right to our own opinions.
 
In our own heads, yes, we are even free to believe the moon is made of green cheese.

But if we're engaging in a discussion on which opinion is correct, we need to be able to back up what we believe in order to engage in that discussion (Colossians 4:6, 1 Peter 3:15). If we can't back it up, yet want to keep believing it regardless of whether it is supportable by evidence, we shouldn't enter the discussion in the first place.
 
In our own heads, yes, we are even free to believe the moon is made of green cheese.

But if we're engaging in a discussion on which opinion is correct, we need to be able to back up what we believe in order to engage in that discussion (Colossians 4:6, 1 Peter 3:15). If we can't back it up, yet want to keep believing it regardless of whether it is supportable by evidence, we shouldn't enter the discussion in the first place.

Well I am still going to state what I believe even if I don't agree with your personal opinion.
I am sure you feel you are correct and that if I or others can't see your correct we we are blind uneducated people who should just keep our opinions to ourselves. You are Administrator and so you will use this to make sure we know you are correct, but just understand I am still going to state what I believe either way.

As sex and kissing change your microbiome, and the microbiome affects everything, even how you think, it is possible that sex and kissing could change almost anything about you! We just haven't discovered the details yet.

In other words, sex causes the soft tissues of a man and woman to become more and more similar over time. Or, you could say, they literally become "one flesh".

I see no Biblical Truth to that whatsoever and ask why that would be a Biblical One Flesh!
But if you think or someone wants to think we become 1 in our DNA you are free to think so.

I just think its crazy you try and force me to not reply because I believe 1 Flesh is a Baby.
 

Attachments

  • e5a0962ad931ba20c1f420c75291bfe8eff80f935dc19b0f45194ca3ddbafc5c.0.png
    e5a0962ad931ba20c1f420c75291bfe8eff80f935dc19b0f45194ca3ddbafc5c.0.png
    79 KB · Views: 1
Reply all you like - provided your replies are engaging in the conversation and trying to answer the questions others have put to you, not just restating a point that you have already made.
 
I do. I wonder If you do this at in person meeting as well. Walking around telling people you've already stated that already move on instead of making sure there is peace you regulate personal conversations.
Plus there is two post and even though I respected your request people still posted over on the other so I did as well to answer them. I don't mind debating far off possibilities like the DNA, But it is not a practical idea even if it has some minor truths. I will still respect your right to say it's possible even if I think it's not really relevant.

20230208_231653-ANIMATION.gif
 
I do. I wonder If you do this at in person meeting as well. Walking around telling people you've already stated that already move on instead of making sure there is peace you regulate personal conversations.
Plus there is two post and even though I respected your request people still posted over on the other so I did as well to answer them. I don't mind debating far off possibilities like the DNA, But it is not a practical idea even if it has some minor truths. I will still respect your right to say it's possible even if I think it's not really relevant.

View attachment 4405
Your cartoon is pretty annoying.
Quite out of place in a discussion.
 
Your cartoon is pretty annoying.
Quite out of place in a discussion.

It is a PG version of my reply.
The idea I must stick to Biblical Proof and he can say this far out mixing of DNA is one flesh is crazy in itself.
That is why I said all I see is opinions and nothing more, @FollowingHim stated:

The idea of "one flesh" being children was discussed extensively here over the past few weeks. Start here to see the idea being proposed, follow the discussion to see all the arguments against it.

One Flesh - a biological perspective

We have observed, in our life and others, that the wife takes on the genetic characteristics of her husband. And I don't think it's just through Microchimerism of pregnancies, especially considering how few pregnancies most people have.
biblicalfamilies.org
biblicalfamilies.org
I understand that you may believe this, but I personally think that anyone who believes this idea simply hasn't thought through the implications properly. On close examination this idea simply cannot be correct. But read the other thread and comment there to take that issue further, let's not have the same debate twice.

And you saying its
That was already debunked.

Does not make it so either.

No one on here knows for sure, yet its being treated by some as facts and forced on others.
 
@AbrahamSolomon, I have never said that one flesh was about "mixing of DNA" - I don't think you've read what I wrote, or possibly have but don't understand it. I actually suggested it might be about the microbiome, and people began by discussing that novel proposal, before the discussion moved to other suggestions. People disagreed with me, I tried to answer those objections as best I could, others suggested different ideas and then those were objected to also - that is a discussion.

If I was saying "one flesh IS mixing of the microbiome, and I'm not listening to any argument against it, that's what I believe and that's that" - then I too would be being ridiculous and failing to have a discussion. But that's not what I have done.

I don't have a problem with you suggesting something different - the more different ideas to consider the better. I do have a problem with you failing to discuss your suggestion and answer people's questions about it - because then you are not having a discussion. I have even more problem with you responding to people questioning you by reframing the discussion as a personal dispute about whether people are being unfair on you, and finishing up with posting childish animations pretending you've "slam-dunked" the debate. That's just silly, unmanly, and the complete opposite of how to behave if you want to be taken seriously.
 
Last edited:
@AbrahamSolomon, I have never said that one flesh was about "mixing of DNA" - I don't think you've read what I wrote, or possibly have but don't understand it. I actually suggested it might be about the microbiome, and people began by discussing that novel proposal, before the discussion moved to other suggestions. People disagreed with me, I tried to answer those objections as best I could, others suggested different ideas and then those were objected to also - that is a discussion.

If I was saying "one flesh IS mixing of the microbiome, and I'm not listening to any argument against it, that's what I believe and that's that" - then I too would be being ridiculous and failing to have a discussion. But that's not what I have done.

I don't have a problem with you suggesting something different - the more different ideas to consider the better. I do have a problem with you failing to discuss your suggestion and answer people's questions about it - because then you are not having a discussion. I have even more problem with you responding to people questioning you by reframing the discussion as a personal dispute about whether people are being unfair on you, and finishing up with posting childish animations pretending you've "slam-dunked" the debate. That's just silly, unmanly, and the complete opposite of how to behave if you want to be taken seriously.

This is where you are wrong, I never said having a baby was the only way for 1 flesh either.

I do not have proof because I don't think we can be sure.
 
The problem is that we’re not given any description of how to form a marriage in scripture. The only consistent framing we get is one flesh, even when talking about divorce. Divorce breaks the one flesh relationship specifically. That’s pretty much iron clad proof that one flesh is how God describes what we call marriage.

And with the example of the harlot we’re not left with many options of what forms one flesh. It’s something you do with a harlot and it happens every time you do it with her.

We have some imaginative people in this forum so I’m sure there are some quite colorful ideas about what that could be. I can’t sit to see how those ideas are effected by divorce but I’m sure they’ll have ideas about that too.

The point being is that we’re not given any indication that there are levels of one fleshedness. It appears to be a single stage event. I’m always open to new learning though.
Click to expand...

Believe it or not I am open to learn as well.
What if Gay Sex and Prostitute, Non Wife Sex creates a Sinful Oneness and G-ds Covenant/Baby is a True Oneness.
And when a Wife Cheats G-d's Covenant has ended but The Oneness of The Child is still there.

So The Oneness from Sin that Stays Sin is not a True Oneness but sin.
 
I see no Biblical Truth to that whatsoever and ask why that would be a Biblical One Flesh!

The Bible was not written for people with a modern understanding of microbiology. Most people today can't even understand it. So just because the scriptures doesn't go into these kind of details doesn't mean these aren't the physical truths behind the spiritual truths of the Bible.

It is entirely possible that there is a physical one flesh that mirrors a spiritual one flesh much like marriage is a mirror of our relationship to Christ.

While I agree the sexual union is the most obvious 'one flesh' the other possibilities add depth and meaning to the text. Things like the DNA and microbiome could simply be the physical reality of WHY sex is considered by God to be the making of 'one flesh'. After all, these things are more permanent and lasting than the momentary joining of sex.

This 'one flesh' isn't even the only 'oneness' at work in the marriage. There is a oneness of spirit and will much like that between God and Christ and Christ and the church. There is also a legal/economic oneness as the man and wife function as one entity contractually with the world (in Biblical and English common law coverture marriage as opposed to the modern fraud).
 
Last edited:
Believe it or not I am open to learn as well.
What if Gay Sex and Prostitute, Non Wife Sex creates a Sinful Oneness and G-ds Covenant/Baby is a True Oneness.
And when a Wife Cheats G-d's Covenant has ended but The Oneness of The Child is still there.

So The Oneness from Sin that Stays Sin is not a True Oneness but sin.
Again, that would need a lot of scriptural support.
 
Again, that would need a lot of scriptural support.
Silly man, we don't need scriptural support for any ideas... This is opiniontown where facts don't matter and everyone has their own opinion that doesn't need to be backed up with anything other than a non-bullying proclamation. This is 2023, get with the times man!

 
The Bible was not written for people with a modern understanding of microbiology. Most people today can't even understand it. So just because the scriptures doesn't go into these kind of details doesn't mean these aren't the physical truths behind the spiritual truths of the Bible.

It is entirely possible that there is a physical one flesh that mirrors a spiritual one flesh much like marriage is a mirror of our relationship to Christ.

While I agree the sexual union is the most obvious 'one flesh' the other possibilities add depth and meaning to the text. Things like the DNA and microbiome could simply be the physical reality of WHY sex is considered by God to be the making of 'one flesh'. After all, these things are more permanent and lasting than the momentary joining of sex.

This 'one flesh' isn't even the only 'oneness' at work in the marriage. There is a oneness of spirit and will much like that between God and Christ and Christ and the church. There is also a legal/economic oneness as the man and wife function as one entity contractually with the world (in Biblical and English common law coverture marriage as opposed to the modern fraud).

Ephesians 5:31-33
New King James Version

31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
 

Does a Man Need to Leave His Parents to Cling to His Wife?​

Homonyms: Two Meanings of ʿ-z-b​

In commenting on Exodus 23:5, medieval Jewish exegetes such as Rashi, Rashbam, and Ibn Ezra point to the distinctly different sense of the verbs formed from the root ʿ-z-b in these verses. Only in the twentieth century, however, did scholars associate these meanings with a second root, which lexicons list as ʿ-z-b II, with cognates in Akkadian, Epigraphic South Arabic, Geʿez, and Ugaritic.[5] On the basis of these cognates, the posited meanings of ʿ-z-b II are “to help, fix, make whole, set right.”

The Geʿez cognate, ʿazzaba, “to assist, uphold, help,” is particularly relevant to Genesis 2:24. Based on this understanding of ʿ-z-b, our verse can be translated: “Therefore a man strengthens/supports/helps his father and his mother and clings to his woman/wife and they become one flesh.”
 

In Genesis 2:24, how do a husband and wife “become one flesh”?

13
In Gen. 2:24, it is written,
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. KJV, 1769
כד עַל־כֵּן֙ יַֽעֲזָב־אִ֔ישׁ אֶת־אָבִ֖יו וְאֶת־אִמֹּ֑ו וְדָבַ֣ק בְּאִשְׁתֹּ֔ו וְהָי֖וּ לְבָשָׂ֥ר אֶחָֽד׃ WLC
How exactly do a husband and wife “become one flesh”?
 
Back
Top