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Oneness

Do you really believe that it is the polygamy that causes the marriage to blow up, or is it unresolved attitudes towards polygamy, that cause the marriage to fail? I might also argue that in some cases (Hagar comes to mind) the failure happens in the selection process.

I really do believe that it is more difficult than monogamous marriage, that not everyone is ready for it, and not everyone can do it successfully, even if they are successful at monogamy. I do think there are some people that are trying to do it that probably should not be.

Usually marriages do not blow up for just one thing, even when it seems like they do. Whatever your one thing is, other marriages have survived that one thing.

On the other hand I do think God calls some men, and some families to this and for them they should follow God's calling.

I think everyone should examine themselves very carefully to determine which group they are in and how ready they are before proceeding.
 
That was my first thought also. In fact, the advice my grandfather gave me when I got married was to NOT tell my wife everything. His illustration being, when you come in from going around the farm, don't tell her about how many dead sheep you found, tell her something positive. She has enough worries in her own responsibilities that she doesn't need to have all your worries also. Worries are something deeper than just in the mind, we'd say they're in the heart, nevertheless a prudent man doesn't share every one of them with his wife.
There will certainly be things in your husband's mind, even heart, that you don't understand. That's ok, and it doesn't change your oneness with him.
This is not, nor do I desire it to be how our relationship is. Sure, there are things in all our minds we don't know/share. But I can handle being told all the negative hard things. In fact, I believe that is how a relationship grows deep roots. I have always born all his burdens and I
wouldn't want anything less.
 
This is not, nor do I desire it to be how our relationship is. Sure, there are things in all our minds we don't know/share. But I can handle being told all the negative hard things. In fact, I believe that is how a relationship grows deep roots. I have always born all his burdens and I
wouldn't want anything less.
True, but your SW will likely need some things kept secret.
 
I really do believe that it is more difficult than monogamous marriage, that not everyone is ready for it, and not everyone can do it successfully, even if they are successful at monogamy. I do think there are some people that are trying to do it that probably should not be.

Usually marriages do not blow up for just one thing, even when it seems like they do. Whatever your one thing is, other marriages have survived that one thing.

On the other hand I do think God calls some men, and some families to this and for them they should follow God's calling.

I think everyone should examine themselves very carefully to determine which group they are in and how ready they are before proceeding.
My question is more along the lines of whether you believe polygamy to be the cause of the marriage blowing up, because if so, one could argue that Satan is the one who desires to see marriage destroyed, and is therefore, the one who gives the husband the desire to seek PM. I would argue and point to instances where the marriage ended, but polygamy, while present, was not the cause of the marriage ending. What ended those marriages, was an reaction to polygamy by the wife who had friends and family, whispering in her ear, telling her she should leave. I will agree with you however, in some instances where the husband takes an attitude of telling one of his wives that if she does such and such, I don't want her back, that he wasn't really prepared to handle polygamy in the first place. I do recall one such instance where a FW was concerned about her husband telling the SW, that if she went home to take care of her mother who was ill, that she would not be welcomed back. That is NOT living with your wife in understanding, as the apostle Peter said that a husband should do.
 
Right. Which is part of my entire point. There is a loss of oneness for a first wife, or specifically myself as a first wife.

I feel that the meaning of "oneness" needs to be better defined in your mind. The Bible says. " a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." I suspect becoming one flesh means different things to every married person. So, I would encourage you to write down what the definition of "oneness" is to you. Then I would take a moment and ask the Lord to show you what on that list you are most afraid of not getting from your husband. Then ask the Lord if that is the truth or if the Enemy is getting you to focus on a lie to hold you captive. I believe that being one flesh can not be diminished by a man becoming one with another wife. It is just one of those God things that we can not really understand.

I find that first wives fear they will be forgotten somehow, thought of as second best, or have to give up what defines them as a wife/person if their husband marries another woman. You could probably add to that list many other things but those are what came to my mind. It really doesn't matter what "loss" you think about, it is still based in FEAR. This fear has to be resolved thru being honest for one thing, talking to your husband for another and spend time praying and LISTENING to God regarding that fear. I have yet to meet a first wife who God has not asked her to see more clearly her heart and trust him to bring good things to her if she relinquishes her fears to Him. So, what is God asking you to burn in His Holy fire? What different point of view does He want you to see as you learn truth about marriage? What idol or fear is so big in your mind and heart that it is blocking seeing His face?

FYI, since you don't know me, I have been married for 33 years and have lived in a plural family for 24 years. I have had to tear down several idols, let go of my controlling grip over my husband, you know, the one that says "I am just making sure he is doing everything right for the good of our family." I have had to let go of my fear of being forgotten and thought of as no use for my husband anymore, so I could hold tight to my Heavenly Father's hand that assured me I would NEVER be forgotten. I have had to give up petty thoughts and selfishness for the goal of creating strong relationships in my marriage and family. I have had to face my belief in several lies that powered my emotions so that I could be a stronger more loving person. I have had to learn to let God's amazing grace and love flow thru me to another woman who needed a safe place to be loved and grow herself. This has been my journey, and well to be honest, there are still things to learn! I don't know what your journey is @Mbhs but if you are willing to be brave and ask the Lord, what am I to learn from all this, you will not regret it. It is all up to you.
 
Wow, that’s so powerful! Thank you for sharing, that spoke to me. My fear is that my husband wants someone young, that’s why he would like PM. I actually asked him if that’s true, and he said no. I wanted to nag him about this but I felt that the Holy Spirit was telling me not to do that because it is disrespectful and then I saw your post. I have so much to learn.
 
Have you seen the movie "The Substitute Wife (1994)"


I think the movie clearly shows that the wife gained far more than she lost, but I would further claim that she really did not lose anything worth keeping.

It is fiction of course, but it may open up your mind to the possible.
Both @Shaul and I loved this movie and discussed it at length. We came to the conclusion that the first and ailing wife was a wonderful example of a righteous woman! She loved her husband, children, and eventually the second wife more than herself. What a picture of Messiah!
 
My husband and I have been studying the subject for the past 9 months. Its been incredibly shocking, hard and painful for me. However, I love the truth and God's word and cannot help but see that it is a God approved marriage.
We've been married for over 13 years, and have always had an amazing marriage. We have weathered some pretty intense storms together, almost all external and not specific marriage issues. My husband has always been an amazing godly husband (thought wow, this subject has made him step up in a way he never has before. For that I'm thankful).
However, this subject has rocked me to my core. The idea of him loving another woman has been devastating to me. Over time, it feels less so as we've had many, many very long conversations. He hasn't nor is he pushing me into anything. Yet...from day one of this conversation the fear that he now has the freedom to look elsewhere is very hard for me.
It has been sanctifying for me. Deeply. I've realized my idolatry of myself. Yes, the idea makes me jealous for my husband. But I guess it's a jealousy of all of his affection. I want him to be so in love with me, he would never look or think to look elsewhere, I want him to find all his satisfaction in me alone, all his desire, love, etc. And I've been convicted that what I am actually desiring is what is meant for Christ alone. In this way, I'm thankful for this journey. In my head I see myself as a unfinished statue being chipped away by the Master. And it hurts. But I know He is good. And I know I am satisfied fully when I live my life in full submission the Him.

My two biggest struggles right now are a) intimacy. Sex yes, but really, the idea of my husband loving another woman the way he does me is horrifying. Not sure I'll ever get past that.
2) oneness.
When we have talked about what this would look like practically in our lives, I cannot get around the fact that I, as the first wife would lose my oneness with my husband. Our relationship is one of completely open communication. We love talk and discuss everything. We text on and off throughout the day. We share things we're reading about, learning about, relationships with others, children, etc... everything. For another woman to be in the picture would mean I would lose at least some of that. In a Picture perfect scenario, me and the other wife would be best friends and all three of us would love to talk and spend all this time together etc. But EVEN then. On the evenings he is with her, I don't get to be involved in his life, nor him mine. We don't get to wake up together and hug, talk about the start of our day, be with our children together.
When we talk about this, he agrees. I would be the loser in the situation because of this. Since marriage is the union of a man and a woman, the joining of two flesh, two souls, it is very hard for me to understand how this could be good....or let's say God's will. Of course, right now I do not believe it is Gods will for us. However, since I now believe it is biblical, if I am to be obedient to Christ, I must be as open to it as I am to becoming a missionary to China.

We've spent a decent amount of time reading on these forums. It makes me feel a little better to see other believers who believe this. I actually talked to a friend and my mom about it yesterday. It was good because I quickly saw they did not have solid biblical reasoning against it, just like I didn't.
I have not seen this aspect of oneness discussed and am curious what others think. It is simply something the wife would be called to sacrifice? I do see the benefits, and perhaps a wife has to see those so much so she is willing to sacrifice her complete oneness with her husband.
Welcome Mbhs...
I remember when I came to the realization that I was indeed looking for a man to idolize me, when I had always said just the opposite. I professed to desire a husband who loved Yahweh MORE than he loved me, but I was fooling myself. Man that was a humbling time of self examination for me! What has transformed my thinking AND my heart is knowing Scripture, especially the order and purpose of the Father, Messiah, man and woman. I now have that man, and am learning my "place" in his life. I DO NOT lack for love and attention, trust me. And I am developing a dear friendship with his first wife, though we have different homes.
 
I feel that the meaning of "oneness" needs to be better defined in your mind. The Bible says. " a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." I suspect becoming one flesh means different things to every married person. So, I would encourage you to write down what the definition of "oneness" is to you. Then I would take a moment and ask the Lord to show you what on that list you are most afraid of not getting from your husband. Then ask the Lord if that is the truth or if the Enemy is getting you to focus on a lie to hold you captive. I believe that being one flesh can not be diminished by a man becoming one with another wife. It is just one of those God things that we can not really understand.

I find that first wives fear they will be forgotten somehow, thought of as second best, or have to give up what defines them as a wife/person if their husband marries another woman. You could probably add to that list many other things but those are what came to my mind. It really doesn't matter what "loss" you think about, it is still based in FEAR. This fear has to be resolved thru being honest for one thing, talking to your husband for another and spend time praying and LISTENING to God regarding that fear. I have yet to meet a first wife who God has not asked her to see more clearly her heart and trust him to bring good things to her if she relinquishes her fears to Him. So, what is God asking you to burn in His Holy fire? What different point of view does He want you to see as you learn truth about marriage? What idol or fear is so big in your mind and heart that it is blocking seeing His face?

FYI, since you don't know me, I have been married for 33 years and have lived in a plural family for 24 years. I have had to tear down several idols, let go of my controlling grip over my husband, you know, the one that says "I am just making sure he is doing everything right for the good of our family." I have had to let go of my fear of being forgotten and thought of as no use for my husband anymore, so I could hold tight to my Heavenly Father's hand that assured me I would NEVER be forgotten. I have had to give up petty thoughts and selfishness for the goal of creating strong relationships in my marriage and family. I have had to face my belief in several lies that powered my emotions so that I could be a stronger more loving person. I have had to learn to let God's amazing grace and love flow thru me to another woman who needed a safe place to be loved and grow herself. This has been my journey, and well to be honest, there are still things to learn! I don't know what your journey is @Mbhs but if you are willing to be brave and ask the Lord, what am I to learn from all this, you will not regret it. It is all up to you.
STILL looking for that darn "LOVE" button!
 
STILL looking for that darn "LOVE" button!
We've got one. It's called a "like" button. Problem is, people click on it too often so it becomes meaningless to them, and then ask for a new one.
Which they'd do the same with, and then ask for a "really I actually do love it, serious this time" button.

At the end of the day, actually saying "I love it, especially your comment X, which made me realise Y" is so much more meaningful because that's actually "having a conversation", not just "responding emotively in 1 second and moving on to the next meme" - which is what Facebook is all about these days. We're different for a reason, we're about deep, real conversations about important stuff.
 
I feel that the meaning of "oneness" needs to be better defined in your mind. The Bible says. " a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." I suspect becoming one flesh means different things to every married person. So, I would encourage you to write down what the definition of "oneness" is to you. Then I would take a moment and ask the Lord to show you what on that list you are most afraid of not getting from your husband. Then ask the Lord if that is the truth or if the Enemy is getting you to focus on a lie to hold you captive. I believe that being one flesh can not be diminished by a man becoming one with another wife. It is just one of those God things that we can not really understand.

I find that first wives fear they will be forgotten somehow, thought of as second best, or have to give up what defines them as a wife/person if their husband marries another woman. You could probably add to that list many other things but those are what came to my mind. It really doesn't matter what "loss" you think about, it is still based in FEAR. This fear has to be resolved thru being honest for one thing, talking to your husband for another and spend time praying and LISTENING to God regarding that fear. I have yet to meet a first wife who God has not asked her to see more clearly her heart and trust him to bring good things to her if she relinquishes her fears to Him. So, what is God asking you to burn in His Holy fire? What different point of view does He want you to see as you learn truth about marriage? What idol or fear is so big in your mind and heart that it is blocking seeing His face?

FYI, since you don't know me, I have been married for 33 years and have lived in a plural family for 24 years. I have had to tear down several idols, let go of my controlling grip over my husband, you know, the one that says "I am just making sure he is doing everything right for the good of our family." I have had to let go of my fear of being forgotten and thought of as no use for my husband anymore, so I could hold tight to my Heavenly Father's hand that assured me I would NEVER be forgotten. I have had to give up petty thoughts and selfishness for the goal of creating strong relationships in my marriage and family. I have had to face my belief in several lies that powered my emotions so that I could be a stronger more loving person. I have had to learn to let God's amazing grace and love flow thru me to another woman who needed a safe place to be loved and grow herself. This has been my journey, and well to be honest, there are still things to learn! I don't know what your journey is @Mbhs but if you are willing to be brave and ask the Lord, what am I to learn from all this, you will not regret it. It is all up to you.
I was going to like this so much but then you spelled “through” as “thru”. It’s a shame because otherwise it would have been very very good.
 
I was going to like this so much but then you spelled “through” as “thru”. It’s a shame because otherwise it would have been very very good.

Dang! Failed again. So, sorry to not be up to your standards @The Revolting Man. I can only keep trying...with your help of course. :-)
 
I've known many people in my life who have successfully done this.

If you want normal, then stick with monogamy.

And vanilla ice cream.

And average intelligence.

And divorce.

And lack of discipline for your children.

And, for many people, abject loneliness -- even in marriage.

These are all, unfortunately, about as normal as normal can get.

There is always what most people do, and even in groups of people fellowshipping about something that is far from normal (such as, let's say, for example, something abnormal like polygamy), some will attempt to corral us to all be in the same pen. For me, finding out what most people do is far from being definitive information. It can be interesting, but it can also be a snare that has us worshiping Approval instead of God our Father and Jesus our Lord.

Most of those who practice polygamy according to Biblical principles will basically operate as dual monogamies, but some will not; they will be to one degree or another more intimate with each other as a group than that. It all depends on what the individuals mutually desire. This has been discussed many, many times in these forum threads, and thus far not even our most avid Scripture authorities have been able to find that elusive verse that forbids sexual intimacy between one woman and another who isn't that woman's near kin.

So, yeah, getting a bigger bed is always a godly option as long as only one husband is involved!

I have seen this line of thinking on here and disagree. Did your read my original post? To stick with monogamy is not to stick with boring, or divorce, or unruly children. That is absurd.

@Mbhs, you are disagreeing with something I didn't assert. I didn't assert that monogamy is boring. Did you read my post? I was questioning seeking normalcy; I was not questioning monogamy. For me, given that I've been entirely monogamous for the past 21 years, criticizing monogamy would be hypocritical. What would be absurd would be to advocate that everyone must practice polygamy; the numbers would have no prayer of working out.

But I will reassert that monogamy is normal. Keep in mind that I was responding to someone who is considering not only polygamy but a particular taken on how to do polygamy. That's the essence of why I wrote, "If you want normal, stick with monogamy."

I will also reassert that everything else I mentioned following that is entirely normal. Divorce is normal, given that over half of all marriages end in it. Unruly children is normal; you don't get out of your own house enough if you don't recognize that. Average intelligence is, by definition, normal. And loneliness these days is about as normal as it gets. Just ask your average (normal) mental health professional.

I don't consider vanilla ice cream to be boring (none of the rest were boring, so I assume that you made the leap to boring from vanilla), but given that it's the most-purchased flavor it has to be normal.

Please know that no one who lives inside my body is telling you what to do or think. You are free to believe in what you believe in and to behave as you wish to behave. I'm not opposed to monogamy. I'm opposed to the tyranny of the normal. The most common way people set themselves up for endless manipulation by those around them is to pursue approval from others, and that pursuit always leads to conformity to the normal (to the extent that we're not conforming to the wishes of the low-sensation-seeker fascists who will tyrannize us any chance they get.

And I'm sincerely not even attempting to ruffle feathers in this instance. I'm not asserting that I'm above doing such a thing, but in this there was none of that. This whole lockdown nonsense, during which control freaks are handing out constricting dictates as if they were actually legislators has me hyper-aware that our civil liberties need to be defended at every turn. That's where I was coming from. Being normal is entirely acceptable if one chooses to be normal or in actuality is normal, but ANY time I see someone reporting that they're wondering if they should knuckle under to the pressure to be normal (or, worse yet, if I see someone actively pushing that kind of pressure), I'm going to point out what I see as small-minded attempts to control others for no good purpose.

Just to be perfectly clear, though, I don't find anything about monogamy boring!
 
It is also vital to point out that a Biblical family could not ever countenance swinging, casual sex or anything that even approaches adultery. But the marriage bed is undefiled.

Awesome, @The Revolting Man! You hit the up and the down of it all in two sentences!

I would never assert that swinging or casual sex were scriptural, and the reason is that they are included in the overarching philosophy behind our Father's prohibition of adultery, which encompasses anything that is sexually degrading or humiliating (what could be more degrading of a fellow human being than to treat the sharing of hir carnal treasure as something to just discard when one is done with it?). "But the marriage bed is undefiled." Exactly. This is all wrapped up in the Love our Father emulates and declares for us. He designed us and would have no reason to be critical of whatever way we choose to demonstrate love toward our beloveds to whom we are committed without cessation.

And it's no one else's business.
 
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