Meat Praying for the peace of Jerusalem

[FollowingHim]

I'm praying that Jews and Muslims (and Christians) bow and submit to Christ, the Prince of Peace, rather than continuing in rebellion. There is only one Way to peace, with both with God and man.

I have considered every possible long-term scenario for Israel, and the only one I can see that holds any hope of peace is a massive Christian revival, where so many Jews and Muslims turn to Christ and see each other as brothers that they manage to not only stop the fighting, but have sufficient mutual generosity to create a peaceful, stable political solution. Every political or military option will fail to achieve peace, because the fundamental issue is deep-seated hatred between Muslims and Jews, and between Palestinians and Israelis. As long as that hatred remains, it will just flare up in new fighting. Changing borders and governments is just putting lipstick on a pig. And the only plausible way for that hatred to be displaced by love is through Christ. And conversion of Jews to Christianity, and Muslims to Christianity, is a reasonable expectation as it occurs every day - while Jews are not going to become Muslims nor vice-versa. So it really is the only option.

If we take a long-term view, praying for the Peace of Jerusalem therefore must most critically involve praying for the salvation of the population.

 

[FollowingHim]

“We will stay.””

I’m sorry, but if you insist on staying in a declared war zone, things are going to happen that no one wants to happen.

Putting that further in context, the Christians of Gaza trace their lineage to the early days of the apostles. The Church of Saint Porphyrius was first built in the 5th century, and rebuilt in the 12th. The Christian community survived 1400 years of Muslim occupation, and all the persecution that goes on with it. Through the generations they have seen more wars and persecutions than we can possibly imagine - yet they have stayed and kept the light of the Gospel burning in the darkest night. Their numbers have dwindled under Hamas due to further persecution, but the church is always refined by persecution. So the few that remain, those who have endured all and yet still stand firm, are not people we have any right to criticise. They are the remnant that remained after refining fire, those who we will see wearing white robes and honoured ahead of us at the time of Christ's return.

Who are we to tell them to abandon a post they have held for the Kingdom of God for two millennia, at the cost of the blood of many martyrs, whose roll they may be added to any day - just to save their own skins? What could possibly give us the arrogance to think we know better than they about what He would want them to do at this time?

Christ who has preserved them for 2000 years can give them the wisdom they need to preserve their outpost of the Kingdom today. And if they do not abandon their post but die while standing firm, they will deserve the greatest honour, not condemnation. Who knows how many souls they will win for Him at this time of greatest suffering, when many of their Muslim neighbours have fled to the churches for refuge and are fearing for their lives and in desperate need of certainty of salvation, which Islam does not provide?

There is a much more important Battle going on, for the salvation of mankind.

 

[MeganC]

When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons. Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.

- Golda Meir

 

[steve]

Who are we to tell them to abandon a post they have held for the Kingdom of God for two millennia, at the cost of the blood of many martyrs, whose roll they may be added to any day - just to save their own skins? What could possibly give us the arrogance to think we know better than they about what He would want them to do at this time?

WE are just advising them to be prudent.
If an airplane were falling out of the sky towards the house that they had been in for generations, I would probably throw them over my shoulder while dragging another by the collar to get them to safety. I would know that one of us had done right in the sight of Yah.

When you are told that a war is being conducted in your neighborhood and to please remove yourself for a period of time, refusing to go is indefensible.
To bastardize Demosthenes; He who prays and slips away, lives to pray another day.

If I am considered arrogant for wanting people to live, I’ve been called worse.

 

[Bartato]

WE are just advising them to be prudent.
If an airplane were falling out of the sky towards the house that they had been in for generations, I would probably throw them over my shoulder while dragging another by the collar to get them to safety. I would know that one of us had done right in the sight of Yah.

When you are told that a war is being conducted in your neighborhood and to please remove yourself for a period of time, refusing to go is indefensible.
To bastardize Demosthenes; He who prays and slips away, lives to pray another day.

If I am considered arrogant for wanting people to live, I’ve been called worse.

Where can they go? Nobody wants two million broken, destitute, radicalized, and traumatized refugees. Their Arab and other Muslim brothers reject them, and would abuse them. The West is already breaking under the strain of massive Colonization by millions of other Muslims.

A big part of me thinks Israel is using this to try and ethnically cleanse Gaza, and take it for themselves. That would be understandable.

It's not our fight and I don't want the USA to go to war with Iran and maybe Turkey and Saudi Arabia over that tiny strip of land. We need to prepare for the real threat of China. Are we trying to push all of our friends into the BRICS alliance?

 

[Bartato]

When Israel bows before her true Lord she will forgive the Arabs for killing her sons, and forgive them for having forced her to kill their sons. Peace will come when the Arabs love Yeshua the Chosen King more than they currently hate the Jews. Until then, they are all doomed to everlasting strife. There is no Shalom for idolatrous rebels against the King that YAHWEH has established.

- Bartato

It really is that simple. Our modern Western ideas of secular neutrality, and religious pluralism really are nonsense. Everyone either bows to Christ or they will suffer the wrath of the Almighty (and this war is just a small foretaste of that fire).

As Psalm 2 tells us, Kiss the Son lest He be angry and you perish in the way.

 

[Mark C]

I have considered every possible long-term scenario for Israel, and the only one I can see that holds any hope of peace is a massive Christian revival, where so many Jews and Muslims turn to Christ and see each other as brothers...

This will not be popular, but I will suggest that the battle here in this tiny microcosm of people who should have far more in common over a shared Scripture than "Jews and Muslims" in a terror war, is at MINIMUM, illustrative:

If we are so divided over what He actually said, and did, or did NOT, DO, then "how much more so," those who HATE Him and His Word?

I have almost universally found that if I explain to "Torah-obedient Jews" that there is a difference between a "Jesus, who did away with the Law," and they have been taught to hate, because that one IS pagan, and an affront to Scripture, and a Messiah, Who's Name they already know, because they pray it all the time, and it means "Salvation of Yah," Who did no such thing...
...they may still reject the implications, but at least we have common ground for a discussion. Which usually proves to be a good start.

The division in the middle east is bigger still, and it dates WAY back, but won't be tackled without a deeper look at Scripture than they'll hear on CNN, or Al Jazeera, or Arut Sheva.

 

[steve]

Where can they go?

They have been asked to temporarily go to the southern part of Gaza while the problem area is deHamased.
I know that it would be inconvenient, but so is bleeding out when you get caught in the crossfire.

 

[Bartato]

They have been asked to temporarily go to the southern part of Gaza while the problem area is deHamased.
I know that it would be inconvenient, but so is bleeding out when you get caught in the crossfire.

Like you said, they have been advised to move away from the Hamas positions in the North, around Gaza city. To the extent they can, they probably should. It will likely increase their odds of surviving.

 

[Bartato]

There are reports that 10-7 was a "green flag" event, with IDF forced to stand down, Bengazi style.

Jonathan Pollard: Helicopter Pilots Were Given Stand Down Order

Important related article: https://chananyaweissman.com/article.php?id=557 I respectfully disagree with Mr. Pollard that those who obeyed this order while their friends and neighbors were being brutal

rumble.com

 

[FollowingHim]

They have been asked to temporarily go to the southern part of Gaza while the problem area is deHamased.

If you believe that they'd ever be able to come back, I've got a bridge to sell you.
And even if I'm wrong - the fact that they do not trust Israel to allow them to come back is a major factor you need to account for in understanding their decisionmaking, it helps it all make sense.

I need to stress that I'm only talking about the Gazan Christians because that's where the current battlefield is. If the current battle was occurring in Tel Aviv, or Haifa, or in Beirut for that matter, I'd be highlighting the plight of the Christians there. Because the most important thing in this whole situation is the Kingdom of God.

 

[FollowingHim]

This will not be popular, but I will suggest that the battle here in this tiny microcosm of people who should have far more in common over a shared Scripture than "Jews and Muslims" in a terror war, is at MINIMUM, illustrative:

If we are so divided over what He actually said, and did, or did NOT, DO, then "how much more so," those who HATE Him and His Word?

I have almost universally found that if I explain to "Torah-obedient Jews" that there is a difference between a "Jesus, who did away with the Law," and they have been taught to hate, because that one IS pagan, and an affront to Scripture, and a Messiah, Who's Name they already know, because they pray it all the time, and it means "Salvation of Yah," Who did no such thing...
...they may still reject the implications, but at least we have common ground for a discussion. Which usually proves to be a good start.

The division in the middle east is bigger still, and it dates WAY back, but won't be tackled without a deeper look at Scripture than they'll hear on CNN, or Al Jazeera, or Arut Sheva.

This division really is fascinating. Seen from a Kingdom perspective there should be no division at all.

The only solution is both sides finding Messiah. And they do that through the witnesses God has placed among them.
His primary witnesses to the Israeli Jews, the people who they can most readily relate to, are the Messianic believers living in Israel.
While His primary witnesses to the Palestinian Muslims are the Palestinian Christians.

Jews won't listen to a Palestinian Christian, and Muslims won't listen to a Messianic Jew. So both are essential. "And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you."

But instead of recognising that we are all on the same side, that of the Kingdom, we split along political lines. We even ally ourselves with the non-Christians on one political side, and repeat their own arguments to justify them killing the Christians on the other side!

What I find most revealing is how quickly so many good people fall into Satan's traps - and how people who would firmly resist one (e.g. the calls to discriminate against other believers over a vaccine), will readily fall for a different one that achieves the same thing via different means. There is an argument to break up everybody - Satan just has to find the right one.

 

[Keith Martin]

Today I'm wondering how the Ben Gurion Canal project might have something to do with the timing of emptying out Gaza, given that the planned route could be considerably shortened if it could go straight through Gaza instead of the plans to reroute it way north to swing around Gaza to reach the Mediterranean Sea.

 

[MemeFan]

Where can they go? Nobody wants two million broken, destitute, radicalized, and traumatized refugees. Their Arab and other Muslim brothers reject them, and would abuse them. The West is already breaking under the strain of massive Colonization by millions of other Muslims.

They have support of Muslim public. They always have shown great religious cohesion. They are also problem for regimes in Muslim states.

A big part of me thinks Israel is using this to try and ethnically cleanse Gaza, and take it for themselves. That would be understandable.

Makes sense.

It's not our fight and I don't want the USA to go to war with Iran and maybe Turkey and Saudi Arabia over that tiny strip of land.

Smart thinking avoiding Neocon thinking.

We need to prepare for the real threat of China. Are we trying to push all of our friends into the BRICS alliance?

And now you fall into Neocon trap of MOAR war. C'mon guys, they just want war, they don't care against whom.

They have been asked to temporarily go to the southern part of Gaza while the problem area is deHamased.
I know that it would be inconvenient, but so is bleeding out when you get caught in the crossfire.

And then Israel will decide to deHamas southern part. Try to predict several moves in advance.

And fight against Covid passports wasn't inspired just by covid vaccines, but the fact additional "medicines" could easily be added to passport.

 

[MemeFan]

This division really is fascinating. Seen from a Kingdom perspective there should be no division at all.

The only solution is both sides finding Messiah. And they do that through the witnesses God has placed among them.
His primary witnesses to the Israeli Jews, the people who they can most readily relate to, are the Messianic believers living in Israel.
While His primary witnesses to the Palestinian Muslims are the Palestinian Christians.

Jews won't listen to a Palestinian Christian, and Muslims won't listen to a Messianic Jew. So both are essential. "And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you."

But instead of recognising that we are all on the same side, that of the Kingdom, we split along political lines. We even ally ourselves with the non-Christians on one political side, and repeat their own arguments to justify them killing the Christians on the other side!

What I find most revealing is how quickly so many good people fall into Satan's traps - and how people who would firmly resist one (e.g. the calls to discriminate against other believers over a vaccine), will readily fall for a different one that achieves the same thing via different means. There is an argument to break up everybody - Satan just has to find the right one.

And remember war is very very expensive.

If outside forces won't finance war it would have to finished sooner.

 

[Keith Martin]

C'mon guys, they just want war, they don't care against whom.

Amen.

 

[Keith Martin]

And remember war is very very expensive.

If outside forces won't finance war it would have to finished sooner.

War is essentially a combination of a money-laundering scheme and a way to eliminate external and internal rivals, even if it has to entail genocide.

 

[steve]

So many things to respond to and so little time. I will post in fits and spurts.
First this from a reporter (Amir Tsarfati) that I follow;
“Shalom from a very different Israel than what we had one month ago. Back then, we were mired in political friction. There was a huge divide over judicial reform with threats being leveled from all sides. Culturally, we were not just two different countries with a conservative population and a liberal population, but we had countless subgroups centered around religious beliefs and lifestyle choices and ethnic backgrounds. When I looked at my nation back then, I felt incredible sorrow. We were a nation fighting an internal war and I could see my country falling apart.

That is no longer so. When you look at Israel now, you see one country, one people. We are Israelis, and if you harm one of us, you harm us all. As a nation, we were attacked. As a nation, we were murdered and tortured and kidnapped. And as a nation, we will have our vengeance on those who perpetrated these heinous acts on our children, our elderly, our women, and our men. We will also ensure that those who attacked us will never have the capability to do it again, because we know that if they could, they would.”

It is simply amazing how many internal problems a war can solve.
I am not accusing them of orchestrating it, but no crisis is going to be wasted.
Unlike in the US with the mass shooters, I don’t think that they are able to go all MK-Ultra on thousands of Arabs. But they definitely made lemonade out of the lemmings.

 

[steve]

Let’s be fair with the “genocide” drumbeat.
The goal is definitely genocide of Hamas, but it is not genocide when you are asking the rest of the population to move out of the way so that you can accomplish that goal.
Will they be allowed to return to a cleansed land? I’m sure that Israel doesn’t want them to be allowed to, but they are stuck with the reality that there will be no other option outside of slaughtering them, which they are obviously trying to avoid. So please quit accepting the hater’s talking points.

 

[steve]

In case anyone is unaware, Hamas and Hezbollah and others are proxies for Iran.
Iran wants reasonable deniability, but is behind this 1000%, supplying rockets and etc.
Hezbollah will start sending an overwhelming onslaught of rockets when Iran gives the word.
Gaza is hardly Israel’s main focus.