Meat Praying for the peace of Jerusalem

[Bartato]

And now you fall into Neocon trap of MOAR war. C'mon guys, they just want war, they don't care against whom.

Thanks for the good reminder. We don't want war with China either. Our real enemies are the world systems in opposition to Christ, the devil and his minions, and our own fallen natures.

China is the biggest competitor in the BRICS lineup, but globohomo trash world is actually destroying the West.

 

[Bartato]

Let’s be fair with the “genocide” drumbeat.
The goal is definitely genocide of Hamas, but it is not genocide when you are asking the rest of the population to move out of the way so that you can accomplish that goal.
Will they be allowed to return to a cleansed land? I’m sure that Israel doesn’t want them to be allowed to, but they are stuck with the reality that there will be no other option outside of slaughtering them, which they are obviously trying to avoid. So please quit accepting the hater’s talking points.

Israel is probably hoping to guilt Europe and America into taking them, and our "leaders" will likely y try.

First, our "leaders" steal our money and use it to buy bombs for Israel, and then they will tax us so they can give the Palestinians free food,. housing, and medical care in America and Europe.

Fortunately the people in Europe and America are starting to wake up.

 

[Mark C]

Jews won't listen to a Palestinian Christian, and Muslims won't listen to a Messianic Jew.

I have dealt with a large number of rabbinic, conservative, orthodox jews, including rabbis, in my own ministry. As I indicated, a great many, especially years ago, were unfamiliar with the concept that there is a DIFFERENCE between a "Jesus, who did away with the law" (their Scripture, in that sense) and a Yahushua/Yeshua Who met the criterion for their own Messiah, but they had NOT heard about.

Muslims, however, are a different story. I have never, that I know of, heard from a single one via email, phone, or feedback from radio shows. But I have had quite a few "drive-bys" from those who enter the live teaching site (primarily Paltalk) on Sabbath. Most come simply to disrupt, and are simply blocked. But a surprising (to me) number are also 'disarmed' by the fact that we are not "religious jews" nor conventional "christians" (we aren't talking on sunday) and aren't about "isa" which means "jesus" to most. More than a few, if willing to talk/listen at ALL, find the concept that He did NOT contradict our Scripture, as they have also been told, at least "food for thought."

Yahushua, Himself, said "many will come to me in that day..." and ultimately be told, "I never knew you." What we're seeing is just an element of that.

 

[MeganC]

Where can they go? Nobody wants two million broken, destitute, radicalized, and traumatized refugees. Their Arab and other Muslim brothers reject them, and would abuse them. The West is already breaking under the strain of massive Colonization by millions of other Muslims.

Egypt had offered the people of Gaza a piece of land in Sinai five times larger than Gaza. The idiots who run Gaza refused because it's more important to them to continue this war than to provide for their people.

Israeli politicians praise Sisi plan to give Palestinians land for a state in Sinai

Abbas reportedly rejected plan that would expand Gaza to five times its current size and give PA autonomy in West Bank cities; Yesh Atid's Peri, Bayit Yehudi's Shaked say proposal worth exploring.

www.jpost.com

Israeli lawmakers back reported bid to settle Palestinians in Sinai

Hebrew press runs story of Egypt proposal to cede land to Gaza, a week after Abbas rejected it; Cairo dismisses claim

www.timesofisrael.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/09/08/israelis-warm-to-a-palestinian-state-carved-out-of-egypt/

 

[FollowingHim]

Egypt had offered the people of Gaza a piece of land in Sinai five times larger than Gaza. The idiots who run Gaza refused because it's more important to them to continue this war than to provide for their people.

Don't jump to the conclusion that this is true. From one of the articles you shared, here's what we actually know:

Right-wing Israeli politicians on Monday came out in support of a reported Egyptian-proposed deal to cede land in the Sinai to a future Palestinian state as a means of resolving the refugee issue.

The deal was rejected out of hand by Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas over a week ago and denied by Egypt on Monday.

In other words, right-wing (which in Israeli terms means hardline Zionist) Israeli politicians claimed that Egypt had offered a large tract of land to Palestine. The Palestinian Authority and Egypt said that this was not on the table at all. But Israeli and US media then reported it as fact.

There is no document with this offer. If there was, they would cite it. It's all hearsay. Therefore the offer probably never existed.

For all we know, this might be a complete fabrication by hardline Zionist Israeli politicians, made up solely to discredit the PA. However, it's more likely a severe misrepresentation of informal discussions - probably people behind the scenes had discussed a load of hypothetical ideas, this being one of them, and someone from Egypt had said it was a possibility they could look into - this sort of discussion no doubt happens all the time among diplomats - and then this went through a chain of chinese whispers and became in the mind of people who wanted it to be true an actual offer of land.

Whenever you are trying to understand an issue like this, it is absolutely essential to not just read the statements of one side and assume they are factual. Both sides have massive motivation to lie. You have to read what both sides say and assume the truth lies somewhere in between. And every article you shared was from a pro-Israeli publication, so that should immediately be a red flag that you haven't got the full story.

 

[MemeFan]

In case anyone is unaware, Hamas and Hezbollah and others are proxies for Iran.
Iran wants reasonable deniability, but is behind this 1000%, supplying rockets and etc.
Hezbollah will start sending an overwhelming onslaught of rockets when Iran gives the word.
Gaza is hardly Israel’s main focus.

Only Hezbollah. And they have their own free will, so they don't have to obey every instruction from Teheran.

Hamas has received money from George Soros. Doubt he and Iran's ruling class can stand each other.

It is simply amazing how many internal problems a war can solve.
View attachment 5606 I am not accusing them of orchestrating it, but no crisis is going to be wasted.

Nope. Divides are just pushed under carpet.

Survival comes first, when they feel safe bickering will return. They maybe bicker even now, just behind closed door.

Even German generals in WW2 did disobey.

Let’s be fair with the “genocide” drumbeat.
The goal is definitely genocide of Hamas, but it is not genocide when you are asking the rest of the population to move out of the way so that you can accomplish that goal.

Really? Only civilians will move and all Hamas fighters will stay. Won't happen.

If Hamas leaders have more than 2 brain cells, they would order some of their fighters to retreat with civilians as civilians. Somebody, if it comes to worst, needs to resume struggle and, in meantime, keep watch on children and wives of fighters.

 

[FollowingHim]

Hamas has received money from George Soros. Doubt he and Iran's ruling class can stand each other.

And Netanyahu himself has at least promoted and facilitated the financial support of Hamas. They have been strategically useful for Israel itself, not Iran. This is one of the many reasons many Israelis blame Netanyahu for the current crisis.

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[steve]

Only Hezbollah. And they have their own free will, so they don't have to obey every instruction from Teheran.

Hamas has received money from George Soros. Doubt he and Iran's ruling class can stand each other.

Who has been supplying all of Hamas‘’s rockets?
The enemies of Israel are not as monolithic and segregated as you seem to believe. And they all have the same supreme commander.

Nope. Divides are just pushed under carpet.

Survival comes first, when they feel safe bickering will return. They maybe bicker even now, just behind closed door.

The point, that they are now united in ways that they were not previously, is inescapable.
I never claimed that every problem has been solved perfectly and eternally.
You are majoring in minors here.

Really? Only civilians will move and all Hamas fighters will stay. Won't happen.

If Hamas leaders have more than 2 brain cells, they would order some of their fighters to retreat with civilians as civilians. Somebody, if it comes to worst, needs to resume struggle and, in meantime, keep watch on children and wives of fighters.

You are not thinking rationally here.
Of course there will be some, but they cannot move their supplies with them and they are not going to be very effective without the materials to wage war.
The remaining leaders need protection also, who is going to do it if all of the peons melt away?
Besides, they don’t have the same desire for self preservation as we do. If they are killed in the war, they and their entire families are guaranteed paradise. Not to mention the stipends that the families of dead “warriors” have been receiving, which may be coming to an end.

 

[steve]

 

[steve]

It is possible that people are afraid to leave northern Gaza.

 

[FollowingHim]

Who has been supplying all of Hamas‘’s rockets?

I'm pretty sure they build their own out of pipes and explosives, which is why their rockets are crap. Hezbollah has the real dangerous rockets, because Iran actually supplies them.

Of course there will be some, but they cannot move their supplies with them and they are not going to be very effective without the materials to wage war.

Your very next post maps that the south also is riddled with Hamas tunnels. In other words, they almost certainly have plenty of war materials stockpiled in the south also and no need to move supplies with them from Gaza City.

It is possible that people are afraid to leave northern Gaza.

Yes. Hamas might shoot them, and so might Israel (there is video footage of an Israeli tank shooting a car on the road south for example). Who knows which is more likely? Either way evacuation is dangerous, and who fired the bullet really doesn't matter much to the person on the receiving end.

 

[steve]

I'm pretty sure they build their own out of pipes and explosives, which is why their rockets are crap. Hezbollah has the real dangerous rockets, because Iran actually supplies them.

It’s a bit more complicated than that:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/11/middleeast/hamas-weaponry-gaza-israel-palestine-unrest-intl-hnk-ml/index.html

Your very next post maps that the south also is riddled with Hamas tunnels. In other words, they almost certainly have plenty of war materials stockpiled in the south also and no need to move supplies with them from Gaza City.

They would still be abandoning what is stockpiled in the northern tunnels, which seems to be the major portion.
After all of their resources have been thoroughly destroyed in the north, my guess is that the required movement of civilians will flip to sending them north and then securing the southern half.

there is video footage of an Israeli tank shooting a car on the road south for example

We don’t know the details of that situation, it seems that some of the terrorists were evacuating in ambulances also.
Somehow quite a few, maybe half of the residents of Gaza City, were able to leave. There were reports of Hamas attempting to block the roads. Which may have resulted in a car full of agents being shot by a tank.

 

[steve]

 

[FollowingHim]

After all of their resources have been thoroughly destroyed in the north, my guess is that the required movement of civilians will flip to sending them north and then securing the southern half.

While I think that's when they'll be pushed into the Sinai on the same excuse. We won't know which is correct until it happens though.

 

[MemeFan]

I'm just waiting before it becomes obvious Israel is targeting civilians.

Targeting ambulances? How do they know every targeted ambulance has Hamas fighters inside? They could just wait for fighters to get out before killing them. At least, kills would be "clean" and they couldn't be accused of targeting civilians.

 

[steve]

While I think that's when they'll be pushed into the Sinai on the same excuse. We won't know which is correct until it happens though.

You can’t accuse them until they actually do it.
If Egypt refuses to let Israel force them into the Sinai……?

 

[steve]

I'm just waiting before it becomes obvious Israel is targeting civilians.

Targeting ambulances? How do they know every targeted ambulance has Hamas fighters inside? They could just wait for fighters to get out before killing them. At least, kills would be "clean" and they couldn't be accused of targeting civilians.

They won’t.
They are the ones that tell civilians to get out of the war zone. The other side brings the war to civilians.

 

[FollowingHim]

You can’t accuse them until they actually do it.
If Egypt refuses to let Israel force them into the Sinai……?

Didn't accuse them. Just made a prediction so we can look back on this in a few months and see who was right. Egypt may play ball for humanitarian reasons and let it happen, or they might go to war over it. Too many variables at play to know how that will turn out. I am just predicting Israel will try to make it happen. Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

[steve]

Didn't accuse them. Just made a prediction so we can look back on this in a few months and see who was right. Egypt may play ball for humanitarian reasons and let it happen, or they might go to war over it. Too many variables at play to know how that will turn out. I am just predicting Israel will try to make it happen. Hopefully I'm wrong.

At what point does it become character assassination?

 

[FollowingHim]

At what point does it become character assassination?

What are you talking about? I'm just repeating what the Israeli Ministry of Intelligence has proposed. Where do you get "character assassination" from?

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com