Prostitution?

[NBTX11]

Overly simplistic and incorrect. Adultery and whoredom are both sins and both are one flesh. There are lists of one flesh unions listed as sin.

What is the definition of whoredom, in terms of sexual activity.

Cite scripture please.

 

[NickF]

What is the definition of whoredom, in terms of sexual activity.

Cite scripture please.

Don't have time for a discussion or argument. Look it up. H2181 Zana

H2181 - zānâ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

H2181 - זָנָה zânâh, zaw-naw'; a primitive root [highly fed and therefore wanton]; to commit adultery (usually of the female, and less often of simple fornication, rarely of involuntary ravishment); figuratively, to commit idolatry (the Jewish people being regarded as the spouse of...

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[Deesee25]

My friend and I recently got into a discussion about prostitution. He holds the stance that it should be legalized, even admitting that he would most likely partake in using one. He also mentioned the need for safer places and stricter health regulations for prostitutes so their health and lives aren't at such a high risk.

My stance was that even if there was a "safe environment" for them to practice, their health would still be at risk for the following reasons:

A) Women were not created to have casual sex, a woman participating in this behavior is most likely not emotionally well. It's unkind to prey on her weak state of mind.

B) Both condoms and birth control fail. By engaging in casual sex, it's putting the woman at a higher risk of becoming a single mother. And even worse, putting her at risk for having an abortion. She is already not in the right frame of mind and not making the best decisions; if she becomes pregnant, she may feel even more pressure to have an abortion under these circumstances.

C) Many of the women who partake in this work are drug addicts or turn to drugs to cope with their decisions. Why further encourage their behavior when what they need instead is help.

He responds by saying that prostitution has happened since the beginning of time and will always happen. It's better to create a safe place for them to practice, since we can't stop it from happening.

I said we can most certainly stop it from happening and offered many solutions.

I also said that if he truly loved women and cared about their well-being, he would discourage this behavior instead of attempting to put a band-aid on a deeper-rooted problem.

I can only form my opinion from the perspective of a woman. I have to ask, was I too harsh on his stance?

Idk how dead this thread is but if you ever been to Europe or brothels. Prostitution in those places are pretty regulated. So your not spreading disease women are protected etc. It's not just some drug infested hooker on the street corner like you see in movies. Though that does happen but not all. Granted I'm still not convinced prostitution is sinful but as I always say not all women want to be mothers or designed to be mothers.

Really just from my political worldview cause I'm more of a libertarian and unless that person is victimizing someone else in their act and it's a choice they made then it should be made legal. The government really has no business telling people what they should with themselves or their property as long as it doesn't viticize someone's. Saying it should be legal doesn't mean you have to agree with it. I can disagree with someone when it comes drugs but I still them in having the choice to do drugs even if I disagree with the act itself.

Though I think Prostitution would even the playing field a little bit and women would have less of a monopoly on sex. Some guy may decide why tolerate his nagging wife or gfs bs when he can just go buy a hooker instead. Lol

 

[paterfamilias]

Idk how dead this thread is but if you ever been to Europe or brothels.

I assume it was not the intention bit I love how it looks like Europe is being tacitly thrown under the bus as a big whorehouse

Prostitution in those places are pretty regulated.

Little column A little column B
https://www.spiegel.de/internationa...-job-for-young-woman-in-germany-a-882021.html

Plus, frankly the idea of government regulations making anything better is something I meet with extreme skepticism.

So your not spreading disease women are protected etc. It's not just some drug infested hooker on the street corner like you see in movies. Though that does happen but not all. Granted I'm still not convinced prostitution is sinful but as I always say not all women want to be mothers or designed to be mothers.

Won't jump on the sin bandwagon as I am the odd duck in the group but will stand firm as team creeped out by the notion of hookers or being a john etc. Yuck

Re all woman being moms, point granted. That said, women...well people in general but especially women are extremely environmentally malleable and when the idea or being a hooker, in person or on a screen, is normalized, glamorized and promoted culturally...well, a whole lot of potential moms completely get taken off the table. To my mind a lot of lives ruined and potential crushed.
Don't want to even consider the kids of moms who are hooking. I am squeamish about that sort of idea.

Really just from my political worldview cause I'm more of a libertarian and unless that person is victimizing someone else in their act and it's a choice they made then it should be made legal.

No disagreement with respect to legality and quite libertarian myself but in a kind of lateral fashion. There are significant problems with the libertarian positions in a lot of cases with respect to inherently conflicting ideals as well as contact with outside groups who do not share any of the various libertarian notions. Personally I contend that there are no systems which can work for large groups without some sort of moderation. Be that moderation in the form of a homogeneous culture or faith or equivalent. In real life we get some sort of authoritarianism though but all that is not about hookers and probably fodder for a different thread.
End result is that we developed in smaller groups and the scale of groups now is really not our ideal environment

The government really has no business telling people what they should with themselves or their property as long as it doesn't viticize someone's. Saying it should be legal doesn't mean you have to agree with it. I can disagree with someone when it comes drugs but I still them in having the choice to do drugs even if I disagree with the act itself.

Agree in principle but by the same token...hypothetical scenario. Say we are doing the libertarian thing as a small unincorporated community in the country. Call it 40 families who are all neighbors and on good terms be they close or not.
One guy starts on drugs and becomes abusive to his family, aggressive with the neighbors, physically threatening and has thugs showing up in the area spoiling everyone's vibe.
Is the community right or wrong for sending a few of the boys round to bounce him off a few walls and ensure that his hospital stay is a couple days at least? Or are they the bad guys for acting in the group interest? Who is violating the non agression principle? Is anyone violating it?
Not a gotcha question attempt or anything, just wishing to get a read on your thought process.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Idk how dead this thread is but if you ever been to Europe or brothels. Prostitution in those places are pretty regulated. So your not spreading disease women are protected etc. It's not just some drug infested hooker on the street corner like you see in movies. Though that does happen but not all. Granted I'm still not convinced prostitution is sinful but as I always say not all women want to be mothers or designed to be mothers.

Really just from my political worldview cause I'm more of a libertarian and unless that person is victimizing someone else in their act and it's a choice they made then it should be made legal. The government really has no business telling people what they should with themselves or their property as long as it doesn't viticize someone's. Saying it should be legal doesn't mean you have to agree with it. I can disagree with someone when it comes drugs but I still them in having the choice to do drugs even if I disagree with the act itself.

Though I think Prostitution would even the playing field a little bit and women would have less of a monopoly on sex. Some guy may decide why tolerate his nagging wife or gfs bs when he can just go buy a hooker instead. Lol

One of my iron clad rules of masculinity is to never, under any circumstances, ever buy an orgasm. There is no good that will ever come out of it.

Prostitution is hell on the women practicing it, even though many of them are choosing it willingly. Setting aside my stance that it is serial adultery, you can not pretend that it doesn’t deaden the conscience and sex is the mist powerful drug kit in existence. Sexual addictions are awful to break and I know men who have destroyed themselves as thoroughly with prostitutes as they could have with drugs or gambling.

Don’t do it. There is no good that comes of it. If the solution to a nagging wife is prostitution then that man is a weakling with absolutely no I.Q. He deserves to be nagged, needs to be nagged. He’s too stupid to be left to his own devices.

Using prostitutes to get back at your wife is a petty, passive aggressive, vicious and embittered vengefulness. It will backfire. It will only give the nagging wife ammunition and confirmation that she’s right. If a man is going to use prostitutes he should at least be honest and admit that he wants to have some strange without having to work too hard. Blaming it on his wife is ridiculous.

 

[Deesee25]

One of my iron clad rules of masculinity is to never, under any circumstances, ever buy an orgasm. There is no good that will ever come out of it.

Prostitution is hell on the women practicing it, even though many of them are choosing it willingly. Setting aside my stance that it is serial adultery, you can not pretend that it doesn’t deaden the conscience and sex is the mist powerful drug kit in existence. Sexual addictions are awful to break and I know men who have destroyed themselves as thoroughly with prostitutes as they could have with drugs or gambling.

Don’t do it. There is no good that comes of it. If the solution to a nagging wife is prostitution then that man is a weakling with absolutely no I.Q. He deserves to be nagged, needs to be nagged. He’s too stupid to be left to his own devices.

Using prostitutes to get back at your wife is a petty, passive aggressive, vicious and embittered vengefulness. It will backfire. It will only give the nagging wife ammunition and confirmation that she’s right. If a man is going to use prostitutes he should at least be honest and admit that he wants to have some strange without having to work too hard. Blaming it on his wife is ridiculous.

If the wife is withholding sex from his as punishment he should absolutely be able to buy a hooker. Her having this monopoly on sex is why a lot of wives use it to abuse their husbands. This probably one of the main reasons I support polgyny too cause I see this happen in marriages all the time.

But if a man is able to either go get another woman or pay hooker (not recommended but should be allowed) then she won't have that power anymore. It's more about leveling the playing field with me. People have this assumption that everyone's gonna act right and holy but unfortunately that's not the world we live in. There should always be options on the table when these things happen. Female solphism does exist.

 

[Deesee25]

Little column A little column B
https://www.spiegel.de/internationa...-job-for-young-woman-in-germany-a-882021.html

Plus, frankly the idea of government regulations making anything better is something I meet with extreme skepticism.

I was referring to the brothel regulates it not the government.

 

[Deesee25]

One guy starts on drugs and becomes abusive to his family, aggressive with the neighbors, physically threatening and has thugs showing up in the area spoiling everyone's vibe.

Simple when he's victimizing people he gets arrested and punished. Not everyone who does drugs is abusive that's an assumption. I don't like drugs I'm pretty straight edge but the war on drugs is a myth. It was created by the politicians so they can get rich from money laundering and cartels. It was never about safety or protection.

 

[Deesee25]

Is the community right or wrong for sending a few of the boys round to bounce him off a few walls and ensure that his hospital stay is a couple days at least? Or are they the bad guys for acting in the group interest? Who is violating the non agression principle? Is anyone violating it?
Not a gotcha question attempt or anything, just wishing to get a read on your thought process.

I don't understand the question.

 

[The Revolting Man]

If the wife is withholding sex from his as punishment he should absolutely be able to buy a hooker. Her having this monopoly on sex is why a lot of wives use it to abuse their husbands. This probably one of the main reasons I support polgyny too cause I see this happen in marriages all the time.

But if a man is able to either go get another woman or pay hooker (not recommended but should be allowed) then she won't have that power anymore. It's more about leveling the playing field with me. People have this assumption that everyone's gonna act right and holy but unfortunately that's not the world we live in. There should always be options on the table when these things happen. Female solphism does exist.

Withholding sex is only a “power” of a man lets it be. If the man doesn’t respond to it then she will eventually let it go. But you’re right, the proper response is polygyny, not prostitution.

 

[paterfamilias]

I was referring to the brothel regulates it not the government.

Oh I get it but it is the government which will set the criteria and do inspection and enforcement. Not unlike a county health inspection. They don't do any work but they will be in there periodically to ensure compliance.

I suppose if one has to have hookers...lol all of the sudden a horrible idea just came to mind.

A well regulated hooker, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and frequent prostituts, shall not be infringed.
Like I said, terrible notion but it just popped in there

Anyway, if one has to have hookers then I think that every party should be safe on all levels and that there should be no violent types involved in the industry. Just not sure if there is a great mechanism for that at any larger scale.

 

[Deesee25]

Withholding sex is only a “power” of a man lets it be. If the man doesn’t respond to it then she will eventually let it go. But you’re right, the proper response is polygyny, not prostitution.

Yeah I mean prostitution I say should be a last resort but I don't view has this "unmasculine" thing to do. Cause I understand the reason why some dudes do it. Sometimes they just don't wanna deal with the female headache. They want their peace. They rather just pay for it and get to it. My only argument is the sex is better if she has genenie burning desire for you and that's worth it more than paying for it cause it's not going to be that most cases (though I'm sure it could be), but I get it.

 

[paterfamilias]

Simple when he's victimizing people he gets arrested and punished. Not everyone who does drugs is abusive that's an assumption. I don't like drugs I'm pretty straight edge but the war on drugs is a myth. It was created by the politicians so they can get rich from money laundering and cartels. It was never about safety or protection.

I am not sure if we are on the same page with respect to the question so I will restate it eith a modification....

So, guy goes bad. Causes problems in his home and community. For totally plausible reason the community does not see bringing in outside agencies or government as an option. So do they take matters and the guy into their own hand or stay out of it? Or did you mean that the neighbors do the arresting?

 

[Deesee25]

Oh I get it but it is the government which will set the criteria and do inspection and enforcement. Not unlike a county health inspection. They don't do any work but they will be in there periodically to ensure compliance.

I suppose if one has to have hookers...lol all of the sudden a horrible idea just came to mind.

A well regulated hooker, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and frequent prostituts, shall not be infringed.
Like I said, terrible notion but it just popped in there

Anyway, if one has to have hookers then I think that every party should be safe on all levels and that there should be no violent types involved in the industry. Just not sure if there is a great mechanism for that at any larger scale.

I know a dude who lived in Europe and been to brothels and told the whole story. It's not like most people in the west and America think it is. It's totally safe and not this unhealthy filthy place. Then there's protocols and protection is place in case things get out of hand like bodyguards and security.

 

[paterfamilias]

Withholding sex is only a “power” of a man lets it be. If the man doesn’t respond to it then she will eventually let it go. But you’re right, the proper response is polygyny, not prostitution.

"She is only a tease if what she does gets you hot"
John Bender

And yes...wives and family over knocking shops every day

 

[Deesee25]

I am not sure if we are on the same page with respect to the question so I will restate it eith a modification....

So, guy goes bad. Causes problems in his home and community. For totally plausible reason the community does not see bringing in outside agencies or government as an option. So do they take matters and the guy into their own hand or stay out of it? Or did you mean that the neighbors do the arresting?

Well you have to be more specific. If there's a victim in involve and you can articulate the damages and injuries they suffered then its totally ok for the government to step in that situation. That's what the government was ORIGINALLY made for to protect peoples liberties and personal rights and property but ironically the government is the biggest violators of all those things even more than the criminals. Governments nowadays have 1000% stepped out of their boundaries.

 

[paterfamilias]

I don't understand the question.

Are you familiar with the NAP drum that most capital L libertarian types beat constantly? None Agression Principle.
Personally I would argue it is a bunch of bollocks with someone over a beer but I am not a capital L guy so I fall into the community sorting out the problem in their midst camp. Hopefully in a tough love sort of a way but certainly not gently.

 

[Deesee25]

I am not sure if we are on the same page with respect to the question so I will restate it eith a modification....

So, guy goes bad. Causes problems in his home and community. For totally plausible reason the community does not see bringing in outside agencies or government as an option. So do they take matters and the guy into their own hand or stay out of it? Or did you mean that the neighbors do the arresting?

It works like this if there's no victim no crime was committed. That means all of these speed limits, drug laws, prostitution laws etc should not be here.

 

[Deesee25]

Are you familiar with the NAP drum that most capital L libertarian types beat constantly? None Agression Principle.
Personally I would argue it is a bunch of bollocks with someone over a beer but I am not a capital L guy so I fall into the community sorting out the problem in their midst camp. Hopefully in a tough love sort of a way but certainly not gently.

Yeah I don't know anything about that. I'm not really in any libertarian groups so I have no idea about their ideology I just say libertarian to describe my political worldview better but doesn't mean I agree with the party or the consensus. When it comes to government like I said if there is no victim if you can't articulate the victim, the crime, and what damages and injuries they suffered then it's none of the governments business. That should be the general rule with government intervention and how laws are created.

 

[paterfamilias]

I know a dude who lived in Europe and been to brothels and told the whole story. It's not like most people in the west and America think it is. It's totally safe and not this unhealthy filthy place. Then there's protocols and protection is place in case things get out of hand like bodyguards and security.

I have been to Europe several times and done the whole bumming around backpacking and staying in youth hostels etc. Mostly before the brothels were common in more than Holland.
Plus that sort of thing has never interested me...maybe there were some in Germany at that time. I have not looked up their timeline. I have read a fair amount of material that talks about them as part of a political context, plus I have pals over in several European countries I chat with so I am fairly up to speed as a non Euro who wrinkles his nose at the notion.

The feedback I have gotten is that the vast majority of prostitution is still underground and involves organized crime, human trafficking and child/teen trafficking.

I get the argument re government theoretically keeping it a supposedly traits forward and sanitary business venture but just looking at human nature, I am very dubious about whether or not that is how it works out on the ground as it were.