• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

Question about "Answers In Genesis", Nathaniel Jeanson, Mitochondrial DNA and Y chromosome based genetic research

Creationist and Evolutionist

I'm neither. Each is irrationally dogmatic and each denies the truths found in the other.

Creationists denies facts that don't square with their predetermined beliefs and so do Evolutionists and other -ists for whom Science has become their religion and not just a methodical process for testing and proving ideas.

  • I do not believe the world is flat.
  • I do not believe the sun revolves around the Earth every 24 hours.
  • I do not believe the stars are windows in the firmament (solid sky) above the Earth.
  • I do not believe in sea monsters.
  • I do not believe that men cannot fly.
  • I do not believe that God created the moon to be a perfect and unblemished sphere.
  • I do not believe that the moon is itself a source of light.
  • I do not believe that there are only four elements being earth, wind, fire, and water and that everything else is composed of these four elements.
  • I do not believe that illness is a punishment from God for our sins.
  • I do not believe that illnesses can be treated by bleeding someone to remove their ill humors.
  • I do not believe that medicine is an expression of witchcraft that defies the Will of God.
  • I do not believe that the known world is confined only the to understanding of peoples living in the Mediterranean prior to 1492 and I do not believe it is a heresy to acknowledge that the Pope was never informed of the existence of the Americas prior to 1492.
  • I do not believe it is an affront to God to set foot on the moon.
  • I do not believe that the brain is just an organ that makes snot.
  • I do not believe that blood does not circulate in the body.

There are some people who would argue that I cannot be a Christian for holding to a rational understanding of the world around us. That's fine. They can believe what they want.

For myself I can look at something like the known and accepted facts about the Aborigines and how the preponderance of observable, historical, anthropological, archaeological, cultural, linguistic, and genetic facts combine to show a human population that has been isolated from the rest of humanity for a very long time.

Further, the recent theory about the universe not starting with a Big Bang but instead being eternal squares with Biblical expressions about God being eternal. My saying this likely irks both devout Creationists and devout Evolutionists.

That's fine. If you wish to believe the universe is 6500 years old then fine by me.
 
@All

This is the post I responded to. The fact is that Australian Aborigines would not have a common ancestor with Europeans from just 4500 years ago. And they don't.

The Bible and Scripture do not explicitly state the age of the Earth anywhere and the people who read all sorts of things into the Bible that aren't there are welcome to their beliefs.

Myself, I don't feel obligated to constrain myself to the exact same set of beliefs that were held as accepted knowledge by Moses or any of his contemporaries or any of the other people mentioned in Scripture.

For instance:

  • I do not believe the world is flat.
  • I do not believe the sun revolves around the Earth every 24 hours.
  • I do not believe the stars are windows in the firmament (solid sky) above the Earth.
  • I do not believe in sea monsters.
  • I do not believe that men cannot fly.
  • I do not believe that God created the moon to be a perfect and unblemished sphere.
  • I do not believe that the moon is itself a source of light.
  • I do not believe that there are only four elements being earth, wind, fire, and water and that everything else is composed of these four elements.
  • I do not believe that illness is a punishment from God for our sins.
  • I do not believe that illnesses can be treated by bleeding someone to remove their ill humors.
  • I do not believe that medicine is an expression of witchcraft that defies the Will of God.
  • I do not believe that the known world is confined only the to understanding of peoples living in the Mediterranean prior to 1492 and I do not believe it is a heresy to acknowledge that the Pope was never informed of the existence of the Americas prior to 1492.
  • I do not believe it is an affront to God to set foot on the moon.
  • I do not believe that the brain is just an organ that makes snot.
  • I do not believe that blood does not circulate in the body.

But I do believe that the Ten Commandments are the literal Word of God written in stone by God Himself. I also believe in what Jesus said according to the testimonies of the people who knew Him and heard Him speak.

There's no end to the things that all of us accept as common knowledge that the people of the Bible would have considered heretical.

And none of these things matter to the core truths of Scripture that prove themselves true every single day.
I don't believe any of that foolishness either. But I do believe all that God says about creation, sin, the curse, judgement, death, salvation, life and blessings for eternity in the new creation. If anything He said is not true, then there is NO guarantee that any of it is true. Those who deny the veracity and integrity of His word have placed themselves as judges over Him and are doing exactly what the serpent did in the Garden. The results of a woman (no gender slur intended!) being persuaded to believe one who questioned the accuracy of God's word continue to impact every aspect of our lives to this day. Believe God and let us all remember Jesus prayed saying, Your Word is truth (John 17:17). Shalom
 
I'm referring mostly to Enoch. I've been trying to listen to some of the apocryphal books online to familiarize myself. I've started Enoch, Jubilees, Jasher...
I hadn't noticed any mention of pre-Adamites in Enoch, but might have missed that as it's a while since I read it. Where does it say this?
 
I do think it's highly possible that there were "others" here before Adam. A separate creation than the adamic line. Some call it a "gap theory".
We see that as possible too. That Hebrew word bara is sometimes translated selected. If Adam was selected from the dust of the earth (peoples of the earth) it may explain much.
 
I'm a creationist through and through. But I do listen to a few "out of the boxers", Stephen Pidgeon being one. Considering all of the sacred writings (apocrypha for example), I do think it's highly possible that there were "others" here before Adam. A separate creation than the adamic line. Some call it a "gap theory".
Steve Quayle spends some time on this in the early parts of Giants. I'm not sold, but an interesting line of thought.
 
We see that as possible too. That Hebrew word bara is sometimes translated selected. If Adam was selected from the dust of the earth (peoples of the earth) it may explain much.
Interesting.
 
Can we positively assert that the geniological record is the definition of all the time that mankind has been existent? Absent that, any amount of time could be proposed. Is there a middle ground here for vast expanse of time that is just not recorded where man is alive e.g. missing records? For lack of answers we can make up anything based on other info such as geological strata. That geological record is still subject to question because of the many contra indicating info and just plain adding up the facts. I have heard it said that had mankind been around for twice or three times the biblical record that the world population would have been tremendously greater. Or here's another, why are there no trees living beyond the couple-thousand year mark? If footprints of a man can be found in the same print as a dinosaur, does that mean that dinosaurs are young or that mankind is much older? Many answers were left in the dustbin of Pre-flood activity. The oral record for that era is contained in few voices, namely Noah and his sons. One school of thought is the idea of Theistic Evolution endorsed by Schofield of Schofield Bible fame. Very learned Bible scholars had no answer to refute the Darwinian Evolution theory that was popular during his time.
 
Actually, Darwin's theory of evolution is not scientific. It is possible to kill theory using science.

For deeper understanding I would recommend Evolution 2.0 by Perry Marshall.

Basic idea is that theory of information by Claude Shannon and theory of gradual evolution as taught by Darwin are contradictory. Only one can be true. Since Internet and telecommunication are based on theory of information this means theory of information must be correct.

By the way, theory of information doesn't forbids all types of evolution.

Why is Darwin wrong? He says that gradual evolution will create new species. This implies that changes in genetic code are good. Horewer, according to theory of information any accidental change (white noise) of code (think grammar of any communication type) will destroy information (make message worse). Since genetic code is code this means that theory of information applies to it. Therefore any accidental change in genetic code will make it worse.

It is easy to test theory of information. Write any sentence having sense. Start replacing existing letters with new ones. You will always see that information (meaning of sentence) becomes greater garbage with every changed letter. There is at least one tool showing this.
 
Actually, Darwin's theory of evolution is not scientific. It is possible to kill theory using science.
One of my university lecturers (population biology) was an atheist who rejected evolution as the evidence in his own field contradicted it.

Atheistic evolution is impossible, as it violates information science. Theistic evolution is plausible, as once you involve God he can do anything and could have added all the little bits of information himself to make it work - but then you'd expect him to tell us that is what he did, not make up a completely different fairytale and put it in the Bible to make his followers believe a lie (would God tell his kids Santa exists?). God is truth, not a lier.

If we have to involve God to make either option work, and He can do everything so he certainly could make either option work, we should just believe what he tells us he did.
 
Actually, Darwin's theory of evolution is not scientific. It is possible to kill theory using science.

Go for it. It only takes one person to prove thousands of scientists wrong.

Einstein did it.
 
Go for it. It only takes one person to prove thousands of scientists wrong.

Einstein did it.
How many of the scientific articles on e.g. the Creation.com or the Answers in Genesis websites have you read? There are literally thousands of articles by leading scientists that demonstrate the impossibility of evolution as the means for life. Take the time to do a little research and you will find it most rewarding. Shalom
 
One of my university lecturers (population biology) was an atheist who rejected evolution as the evidence in his own field contradicted it.

Atheistic evolution is impossible, as it violates information science. Theistic evolution is plausible, as once you involve God he can do anything and could have added all the little bits of information himself to make it work - but then you'd expect him to tell us that is what he did, not make up a completely different fairytale and put it in the Bible to make his followers believe a lie (would God tell his kids Santa exists?). God is truth, not a lier.

If we have to involve God to make either option work, and He can do everything so he certainly could make either option work, we should just believe what he tells us he did.
That's pretty much the thought process I went through myself. I realized that information science proved atheistic evolution wasn't possible in the real world. Theistic evolution is theoretically possible, but doesn't accord with what God told us in the Bible.

I really do believe that a virgin gave birth to the God Man, that this man paid the penalty for my wrongdoing on the cross, and also rose from the grave on the third day. Why not also believe Genesis?
 
Why is Darwin wrong? He says that gradual evolution will create new species. This implies that changes in genetic code are good. Horewer, according to theory of information any accidental change (white noise) of code (think grammar of any communication type) will destroy information (make message worse). Since genetic code is code this means that theory of information applies to it. Therefore any accidental change in genetic code will make it worse.

Digging into Darwin's observations evolution isn't about individuals adapting to change it's about populations adapting to change.

For instance, in humanity today we see darker skinned people along the equator and lighter skinned people in the more Arctic regions. Lighter skinned people do better at creating their own vitamin D when there's less sunlight and darker skinned people are less prone to sunburn and skin cancer in the brightest sunlight.

As humans migrated to these areas the individuals who were not already adapted to prosper in these areas did not prosper. But their lighter/darker skinned compatriots did. Eventually the populations in those areas were all light or dark.

As mutations occur in genetic code most of the mutations filter out of a population because they're not well suited to the environment at hand. But some mutations will be better suited and the progeny of those individuals who have those mutations will outcompete their peers who do not have what is now a genetic advantage.

In the modern time I would say that a belief in God and Jesus is an evolutionary advantage. :cool:

Why?

Because Christians have more kids than atheists do. And all these mentally ill people who get medically and surgically sterilized in the name of 'transgenderism' are not going to have children. Homosexuals will not have children.

In due time these deviants will cease to exist as a population simply because they do not reproduce.

Christian faith is then a demonstrable evolutionary advantage over the soulless and empty philosophies of the left.

Now is it a genetic thing that some people are better at faith than others? I don't know but it would not surprise me if that's the case.

In any case genetics are like a constant game of roulette in which variations are tossed out and just like in roulette most of the time when you play you lose. But sometimes when you win you can win big.

The odds of winning are far less than the odds of winning but the genius in the design is that it is inevitable that there will be winners.

To me the tool of evolution and genetic adaptation indicates the hand of a designer because while mutations are random the outcomes of mutations are not. The system is designed so that only advantageous mutations become dominant.

Which is why when I see natural systems like this that do not create chaos (which would follow the notion of entropy) then I see the Hand of God at work.

Further, I no more pretend to know all there is about evolution than I pretend to know everything about life. I am simply saying that I do not see any conflict in acknowledging observable natural phenomena and my faith. Because every time I dig deep into these various phenomena I see God at work. I see an intelligent designer at work who is consciously fighting back chaos and darkness to bring order and light.
 
None of you have read my text with understanding.

You have all missed this part:
By the way, theory of information doesn't forbids all types of evolution.
There is no need for miracles (Lord's personal imtervention) for evolution to occcur. Theory of information forbids goodness of random change from outside of cell. But change by cell itself is allowed.

Bacteria under antibiotics influence will ask it's neighbors do they have molecular pump for antibiotic. It will glady ask other bacteria species. When it finds appropriate neighbor, bacteria will borrow genetic code from neighbor, construct molecular pump and pump out antibiotic.

This is example when cell on purpose changes its genetic code. And isn't only example. For example, when cancer is faced with extinction it's cells will start to mutate on purpose. That way it is for hard to kill last 1%. They are undergoing massive adaption in real time.

Here is link for website about book:

@MeganC Populations can't act, only individuals. Therefore adaptation must be on individual level.
 
That's pretty much the thought process I went through myself. I realized that information science proved atheistic evolution wasn't possible in the real world. Theistic evolution is theoretically possible, but doesn't accord with what God told us in the Bible.

I really do believe that a virgin gave birth to the God Man, that this man paid the penalty for my wrongdoing on the cross, and also rose from the grave on the third day. Why not also believe Genesis?
Exactly, we accept the Trinity (or something like it) is Creation really that big of a stretch?
 
Back
Top