One thing I like about the NKJV and at least some NASB Bibles is that they italicize these words added for clarity to distinguish them from the actual text. That is helpful. I also appreciate when footnotes are added to include alternate "textus receptus" and "critical text" readings.
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Response to Mike Winger's Train Wreck on Polygamy and Divorce
- Thread starter PeteR
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Where are you getting that Steve? I haven't heard that before. As I understand it, we have some Greek fragments dating back to the first century. I've never heard of older New Testament manuscripts in Hebrew or Aramaic.
I know some of our Old Testament translation work comes from the Septuagint (therefore a translation of a translation).
You might be right. There's a lot that I don't know about.
The New Testament was written in Koine Greek. Every New Testament Greek scholar believes that. There are Greek manuscript called papyrus manuscripts going back to the 100s AD in Greek, and possibly one going back as far as 90 AD according to Dan Wallace, possibly the greatest Greek manuscript expert in the US today.
That's what I've always heard. I just wanted to know if Steve knows something we don't. We will see if he has any support for his declaration.
I have found out that 10 000 manuscripts exist for Bible from ancient times. For Greek philosophers it is lucky if 10 manuscripts have survived.
I just can't believe it would be possible that some verse without correct version exists. 10000 versions and all are false. That's not exactly believable.
I just can't believe it would be possible that some verse without correct version exists. 10000 versions and all are false. That's not exactly believable.
I’ve examined papyrus manuscript myself from the 100s AD including P137 which May date prior to 100 AD, although that’s debated. You also have P52 from the first half of the 100’s. Go on the website csntm.org and you can examine them for yourself
They’re in Greek.
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So basically...
You don't have any substantial evidence to support you wild proposition.
Unless you provide some real evidence, I'll assume it's just a product of your "Hebrew roots" bias.
There are approximately 5,800 Greek manuscripts in existence today. There are also over 20,000 ancient manuscripts in other languages such as Coptic and Syriac. There are well over 20,000 manuscripts of the New Testament in existence today. You also have quotations from early church fathers of essentially the entire New Testament if reconstructed.
Gospel of Matthew in Hebrew
Hebrew manuscripts of the gospel of Matthew, digitized, scanned, Hebrew new testament manuscripts, Hebrew manuscripts, new testament manuscripts, hebrew gospel manuscripts, hebrew matthew manuscripts
seekingtruth.info
Nice, don’t bother to look into it.So basically...
You don't have any substantial evidence to support you wild proposition.
Unless you provide some real evidence, I'll assume it's just a product of your "Hebrew roots" bias.
Just start labeling.
If you were to actually study it, you might find out why.
This link says the manuscript is from the 16th century. There are Greek manuscripts going back to the 100s. Read the link I posted and you can see every manuscript. Plus the manuscript you posted is too well preserved to be an early manuscript. All first second and third manuscripts were in papyrus. That’s what they wrote on. This is not papyrus. The papyrus manuscripts are in fragments because they’re old and have deteriorated. The manuscript you posted is not papyrus which is a dead give away for an early manuscript.Gospel of Matthew in Hebrew
Hebrew manuscripts of the gospel of Matthew, digitized, scanned, Hebrew new testament manuscripts, Hebrew manuscripts, new testament manuscripts, hebrew gospel manuscripts, hebrew matthew manuscriptsseekingtruth.info
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I have studied it. Thank you.
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Thank you Steve. I appreciate you sending a link. I'll check it out, and try to keep an open mind.Gospel of Matthew in Hebrew
Hebrew manuscripts of the gospel of Matthew, digitized, scanned, Hebrew new testament manuscripts, Hebrew manuscripts, new testament manuscripts, hebrew gospel manuscripts, hebrew matthew manuscriptsseekingtruth.info
I also noted that the Hebrew manuscript you linked is from the 16th century.
It’s worth examining but please remember every single early manuscript of the Bible is on papyrus. Every one we’ve ever discovered and they’re fragmentary. The first complete Bible we have is from 325 AD, Codex Sanaiaticus. Look at some second century manuscripts and ask yourself if this looks like a fragmentary papyrus manuscript.
Steve, I'm concerned about the site you linked to. There is also an article saying that Yeshua/the Logos/Jesus Christ isn't the Creator, that He isn't the "I AM".
John chapter 1 says that the Logos (Yeshua/Jesus) is the Creator. Genesis also says "let Us make man in Our image". That "Us and Our" are somehow plural. The Father is Creator. The Son is Creator.
Jesus also said "before Abraham was, I AM".
Based on the teaching from the 1st and 2nd epistles of John (regarding false teachers and antichrists), I think this author is outside the Faith, and should be considered "antichrist".
Somehow, the Son is fully God and fully Man. Any denial of that truth (hard as it is to grasp) seems to be a critical and deadly error.
"And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!” (Revelation 5:13 NKJV)
YEHOVAH Alone is The Creator | Seeking Truth
For students of the Tanakh, the identity of the Creator is not a mystery. Yehovah alone is the Creator. However, for students of the New Testament, one single passage has been used by some to overturn thousands of years of understanding and replace it with a new one - that Yeshua, the Son of the...
seekingtruth.info
John chapter 1 says that the Logos (Yeshua/Jesus) is the Creator. Genesis also says "let Us make man in Our image". That "Us and Our" are somehow plural. The Father is Creator. The Son is Creator.
Jesus also said "before Abraham was, I AM".
Based on the teaching from the 1st and 2nd epistles of John (regarding false teachers and antichrists), I think this author is outside the Faith, and should be considered "antichrist".
Somehow, the Son is fully God and fully Man. Any denial of that truth (hard as it is to grasp) seems to be a critical and deadly error.
"And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!” (Revelation 5:13 NKJV)
Just show me one place in Scripture where he is God the Son, as opposed to the Son of God.Steve, I'm concerned about the site you linked to. There is also an article saying that Yeshua/the Logos/Jesus Christ isn't the Creator, that He isn't the "I AM".
YEHOVAH Alone is The Creator | Seeking Truth
For students of the Tanakh, the identity of the Creator is not a mystery. Yehovah alone is the Creator. However, for students of the New Testament, one single passage has been used by some to overturn thousands of years of understanding and replace it with a new one - that Yeshua, the Son of the...seekingtruth.info
John chapter 1 says that the Logos (Yeshua/Jesus) is the Creator. Genesis also says "let Us make man in Our image". That "Us and Our" are somehow plural. The Father is Creator. The Son is Creator.
Jesus also said "before Abraham was, I AM".
Based on the teaching from the 1st and 2nd epistles of John (regarding false teachers and antichrists), I think this author is outside the Faith, and should be considered "antichrist".
Somehow, the Son is fully God and fully Man. Any denial of that truth (hard as it is to grasp) seems to be a critical and deadly error.
"And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!” (Revelation 5:13 NKJV)
I’ll wait.