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Shooting in New Zealand

I'm not getting into the fundamental philosophy behind gun laws @rockfox, because at a fundamental level we basically agree, but it would take a number of posts to get to that conclusion and it's not a direction I feel like spending time discussing right now. There are other more critical matters on my mind.

For one example of how this witchhunt is affecting individuals, a well known conservative commenter in the NZ political blogosphere goes by the name "MacDoctor". I've watched him write very sensible things for over a decade now on a range of forums. Now, someone's complained about his old comments and he's been stood down from his job. Just for expressing conservative opinions online.

Ok good, that's a productive direction for conversation.

It sounds like that is a new experience in NZ. It been a growing problem in the United States going back to at least 2015. And Trump doesn't seem to care to do anything about it either. It starts with opinion leaders, before long it will be ordinary men and women who say the wrong thing on facebook or at work or at the store. It will only get worse. It may start slow at first but it will eventually barrel out of control. Things that were perfectly sensible and acceptable a decade or a year ago will suddenly become beyond the pale. Don't think because you are normal or moderate or even liberal that you'll be safe. These people eventually eat their own. Everyone is at risk, even the people now leading the witchhunts (actually, they'll almost certainly will meet their end if their movement succeeds).

What you have to understand is two fold:
  1. You can't reason with these people and
  2. These tactics are the MO of a certain type of movement, the type that always ends in bloodshed.
You can't reason with the people going on these witch-hunts. They hate you and want to destroy you. You won't be able to talk them down from this course of action. It's part of a bi-bifurcation of your society; the early stages of a Great Leap Forward/Killing Fields style event. Make no bones about it, that is where this is going. It's that serious.

There are not many solutions. The most likely end of this is bloodshed and war, kill or be killed. Since they control the state and the economy, it will mostly be 'be killed'. Those who survive this will only live to see their lives and their country destroyed and given over to foreigners. This may sound extreme, but it's a reliable pattern that's occurred many times.

If you want to avoid that this is the only known course correction if you don't already have control of the government (and willing to use that control):
  1. Be a hard target. Be able to live cheap and simple and not depend on a lot of income and have 1 or preferably multiple independent sources of income. Owning your own business. Preferably a kind that would only be strengthened if attacked. Anti-fragile.
  2. You all have to band together and support anyone attacked, so they are better off than before. Mutual aid and comfort. Not just individually a la kickstarter. Form organized groups; even if they operate in secret and the results seem to be spontaneous. Actually, thats the best way. Think flash mobs.
  3. When attacked, do not apologize, do not give in. Here is the survival guide if you find yourself on the receiving end of a witchhunt.
  4. Employers have to stop giving in. And if they do, they have to be made to feel pain by employees and customers alike and be made an example of. Make the pain of giving in worse than the pain of resisting the witchhunt. But this will only work with normal and sympathetic to you employers
  5. Stop working for employers sympathetic to the opposition. Companies run by the same sorts of people behind the witchhunts are perfectly willing to throw away BILLIONS of dollars to achieve these ends, even destroy their own company.
  6. You have to strike back against anyone and everyone who supports those witch hunts. They must all individually feel the pain. You have to make these witchhunts counterproductive.
  7. Along with #6 you have to start your own witchhunts against your enemies. You have to make them feel the pain so bad they want to drop this tactic.
  8. Through these actions you have to grow a support base from which to eventually undertake memetic and political action to take back control of you media and government. The goal here is to show the followers, those who go along, the fence sitters, that they will not be alone if they lend support.
  9. You'll likely need to create parallel institutions of all levels and kinds (media esp, government, church, finance, employment, service, etc).
If you're not willing to do those things it's probably hopeless. If you can't do those, then it's unlikely you'll be able to put up much resistance when the bloodshed comes either. You're not going to be able to talk or vote your way out of it. Most people are not going to fight back, they are scared.

But it is not hopeless. You'd be surprised how small a % of the population these outrage mobs are. But they are coordinated and dedicated and are magnified by the media and a sympathetic government. They look spontaneous but they're actually funded and directed in the background by foreign elements. What you have to do is form your own in real life connections for fighting back against this. You have to organize and band together. Action can/should look like spontaneous flashmobs (digitally or in real life) but you have to start forming your own corps.

Notice they shut down the comments on that linked article? Can't have people opposing this. What you probably don't realize is many of the people supporting this action against the doctor are likely paid shills or bots. Their goal is to make it seem to the public that these people are beyond the pale and this action is justified. Most people are followers of the herd, and when it SEEMS like most people have one position, they won't opposed that position even if they don't like it. They won't speak out. You have to overcome that dynamic, online and in real life. Flood the comment sections. Protest the employer. Make an example of this doctor. Put together a few hundred people willing to pledge x dollars a month to contract him to be their family doctor such that he suddenly has an indepenedent income of likeminded customers. And then publicize in the media and in real life how his patients or the people of NZ hated this action against him and believe in free speech and have rallied to support him and how he's better off now. Use that PR to get more supporters, and organize those supporters for action supporting the next witchhunt victim. Find out who reported him and who inside the hospital is giving in and drag their name through the media mud.
 
These tactics are the MO of a certain type of movement, the type that always ends in bloodshed.
Exactly, and because this is a global movement that the enemy advances incrementally, here, there, etc, you can see how we get to the Great Tribulation.
 
And, I'm not being fatalistic, precisely the oposite as I know we win. Just surveying the battlefield as you are doing above... gonna get really ugly before the Dawn breaks...
 
Ok good, that's a productive direction for conversation.

It sounds like that is a new experience in NZ. It been a growing problem in the United States going back to at least 2015. And Trump doesn't seem to care to do anything about it either. It starts with opinion leaders, before long it will be ordinary men and women who say the wrong thing on facebook or at work or at the store. It will only get worse. It may start slow at first but it will eventually barrel out of control. Things that were perfectly sensible and acceptable a decade or a year ago will suddenly become beyond the pale. Don't think because you are normal or moderate or even liberal that you'll be safe. These people eventually eat their own. Everyone is at risk, even the people now leading the witchhunts (actually, they'll almost certainly will meet their end if their movement succeeds).

What you have to understand is two fold:
  1. You can't reason with these people and
  2. These tactics are the MO of a certain type of movement, the type that always ends in bloodshed.
You can't reason with the people going on these witch-hunts. They hate you and want to destroy you. You won't be able to talk them down from this course of action. It's part of a bi-bifurcation of your society; the early stages of a Great Leap Forward/Killing Fields style event. Make no bones about it, that is where this is going. It's that serious.

There are not many solutions. The most likely end of this is bloodshed and war, kill or be killed. Since they control the state and the economy, it will mostly be 'be killed'. Those who survive this will only live to see their lives and their country destroyed and given over to foreigners. This may sound extreme, but it's a reliable pattern that's occurred many times.

If you want to avoid that this is the only known course correction if you don't already have control of the government (and willing to use that control):
  1. Be a hard target. Be able to live cheap and simple and not depend on a lot of income and have 1 or preferably multiple independent sources of income. Owning your own business. Preferably a kind that would only be strengthened if attacked. Anti-fragile.
  2. You all have to band together and support anyone attacked, so they are better off than before. Mutual aid and comfort. Not just individually a la kickstarter. Form organized groups; even if they operate in secret and the results seem to be spontaneous. Actually, thats the best way. Think flash mobs.
  3. When attacked, do not apologize, do not give in. Here is the survival guide if you find yourself on the receiving end of a witchhunt.
  4. Employers have to stop giving in. And if they do, they have to be made to feel pain by employees and customers alike and be made an example of. Make the pain of giving in worse than the pain of resisting the witchhunt. But this will only work with normal and sympathetic to you employers
  5. Stop working for employers sympathetic to the opposition. Companies run by the same sorts of people behind the witchhunts are perfectly willing to throw away BILLIONS of dollars to achieve these ends, even destroy their own company.
  6. You have to strike back against anyone and everyone who supports those witch hunts. They must all individually feel the pain. You have to make these witchhunts counterproductive.
  7. Along with #6 you have to start your own witchhunts against your enemies. You have to make them feel the pain so bad they want to drop this tactic.
  8. Through these actions you have to grow a support base from which to eventually undertake memetic and political action to take back control of you media and government. The goal here is to show the followers, those who go along, the fence sitters, that they will not be alone if they lend support.
  9. You'll likely need to create parallel institutions of all levels and kinds (media esp, government, church, finance, employment, service, etc).
If you're not willing to do those things it's probably hopeless. If you can't do those, then it's unlikely you'll be able to put up much resistance when the bloodshed comes either. You're not going to be able to talk or vote your way out of it. Most people are not going to fight back, they are scared.

But it is not hopeless. You'd be surprised how small a % of the population these outrage mobs are. But they are coordinated and dedicated and are magnified by the media and a sympathetic government. They look spontaneous but they're actually funded and directed in the background by foreign elements. What you have to do is form your own in real life connections for fighting back against this. You have to organize and band together. Action can/should look like spontaneous flashmobs (digitally or in real life) but you have to start forming your own corps.

Notice they shut down the comments on that linked article? Can't have people opposing this. What you probably don't realize is many of the people supporting this action against the doctor are likely paid shills or bots. Their goal is to make it seem to the public that these people are beyond the pale and this action is justified. Most people are followers of the herd, and when it SEEMS like most people have one position, they won't opposed that position even if they don't like it. They won't speak out. You have to overcome that dynamic, online and in real life. Flood the comment sections. Protest the employer. Make an example of this doctor. Put together a few hundred people willing to pledge x dollars a month to contract him to be their family doctor such that he suddenly has an indepenedent income of likeminded customers. And then publicize in the media and in real life how his patients or the people of NZ hated this action against him and believe in free speech and have rallied to support him and how he's better off now. Use that PR to get more supporters, and organize those supporters for action supporting the next witchhunt victim. Find out who reported him and who inside the hospital is giving in and drag their name through the media mud.
Boom. We have to be willing to be reviled, scorned and impoverished. If we value their system they will use it to steal our souls. Use while you can and if you must but start living your life so don't need it. We know for a fact we won't be able to participate in it eventually anyway.
 
As I see it:
After decades of success with their creeping incrementalism, and in the last decade galloping incrementalism, the agenda of those who would put the world under the feet of he who is wicked has been experiencing some major push-back.
What was experienced in CC was one of an ongoing set of situations that have been engineered to distract and increase control. A large number of vids are being pulled for merely discussing it in an intelligent fashion.
The hacked flying machines are another example, the company isn’t as stupid as is being portrayed but that option is a better image than what really happened.
In Italy a non-native b u sdriver tried to off more than four dozen children but was stopped.
Yes, I am being very cryptic, trying to use language that doesn’t draw lightning.
Expect more situations to happen as the culprits feel greater amounts of heat.

There was a recent choice to assume room temperature by someone with ties to two prior regimes in this country. Word of the street is “Start a list”.
 
Criticize Muslims in NZ, get charged with a crime.

Islam is the future of NZ...

1553259817438.jpg
 
Did you notice how in that article they won't actually tell us what she said that was so offensive? There have been a number of these cases, and we're never told what they actually said. I firmly believe that is because, in most cases, what they said was probably not actually that bad, and everybody in the public would see through the witchhunt immediately if we were actually told how minor the examples of "wrong-think" are that are being prosecuted. Of course, that can only be speculation because nobody will give any facts...
 
Did you notice how in that article they won't actually tell us what she said that was so offensive? There have been a number of these cases, and we're never told what they actually said. I firmly believe that is because, in most cases, what they said was probably not actually that bad, and everybody in the public would see through the witchhunt immediately if we were actually told how minor the examples of "wrong-think" are that are being prosecuted. Of course, that can only be speculation because nobody will give any facts...
Exactly how to strike fear and slap a gag on the whole populace. The next step is to remove a trial judged by peers and instead have a government appointed tribunal that can keep all evidence secret.
 
Did you notice how in that article they won't actually tell us what she said that was so offensive? There have been a number of these cases, and we're never told what they actually said. I firmly believe that is because, in most cases, what they said was probably not actually that bad, and everybody in the public would see through the witchhunt immediately if we were actually told how minor the examples of "wrong-think" are that are being prosecuted. Of course, that can only be speculation because nobody will give any facts...

I agree. None of this is about anything extreme, its about shutting down anyone who points out the problems with importing Muslims or what their goals for doing that are.
 
I find it interesting that the response to this is politicians, police, media, and common women voluntarily donning the hijab. At the same time as western governments champion women in Iran who are getting assaulted for refusing to wear it.

Contrast that to the visceral hate and disgust Christian women have for a woman wearing a Christian prayer covering.
 
It’s very concerning to watch this madness unfold. In my community
I consider that our government is so scared of retaliation they will do anything.
wearing headscarves, promote broadcast answer the nation wide call to pray/worship , bow to the religion of Islam.
People are promoting “we are one”
To me it all points to the idea if we are seeen to bow to Islam it will limit the possibility of retaliation

Nothing has been well thought through. But that’s typical of this government
The ongoing implications are we are on the way to becoming slaves through ignorance and fear
It might take a year or two , but we are on the slippery slope.
Please Pray for us
 
Submitted for your consideration:
 
So enormous changes to firearms laws have now been rushed through parliament, bypassing normal procedure, and will be adopted later this week. Submissions were allowed, but there were only 48 hours to present submissions (in which 13,000 submissions were received, which the government claims were mostly in favour of the law changes). One day of hearings from people the government had hand-picked to be allowed to speak to the select committee. And after about 2 days of deliberation the recommendation is to adopt the law with minor tweaks. So given the timeframe it's obvious that virtually none of the submissions were actually read, other than a secretary quickly glancing at them to roughly categorise them into "support", "oppose" or "other" while ignoring the contents.

The new law effectively bans all semiautomatic weapons, and even many pump-actions. You can have a semiautomatic .22 with no more than a 10 round magazine, or a semi- or pump-action shotgun with no more than 5 rounds and no ability to take an extended magazine. And there is a small allowance for collectors to keep other guns under some circumstances, with case-by-case approval, provided they are kept in a disabled condition. And an allowance for licenced pest-control businesses to use semiautomatics when there is a clear job that cannot be done effectively without them. But other than that you're basically stuck with bolt actions.

There will be a buyback scheme, similar to the one used in Australia years ago, and there is a 3-month window to hand in guns under that scheme. The details of the buyback scheme have yet to be announced though, and there is a lot of concern around whether it will fairly compensate people for their investment in not only the guns themselves, but also other items that will be worthless without the guns (e.g. reloading equipment, accessories, ammunition).

But to be honest, the collapse of due democratic process is actually of more concern than the law itself. It sets a very bad precedent.
 
So enormous changes to firearms laws have now been rushed through parliament, bypassing normal procedure, and will be adopted later this week. Submissions were allowed, but there were only 48 hours to present submissions (in which 13,000 submissions were received, which the government claims were mostly in favour of the law changes). One day of hearings from people the government had hand-picked to be allowed to speak to the select committee. And after about 2 days of deliberation the recommendation is to adopt the law with minor tweaks. So given the timeframe it's obvious that virtually none of the submissions were actually read, other than a secretary quickly glancing at them to roughly categorise them into "support", "oppose" or "other" while ignoring the contents.

The new law effectively bans all semiautomatic weapons, and even many pump-actions. You can have a semiautomatic .22 with no more than a 10 round magazine, or a semi- or pump-action shotgun with no more than 5 rounds and no ability to take an extended magazine. And there is a small allowance for collectors to keep other guns under some circumstances, with case-by-case approval, provided they are kept in a disabled condition. And an allowance for licenced pest-control businesses to use semiautomatics when there is a clear job that cannot be done effectively without them. But other than that you're basically stuck with bolt actions.

There will be a buyback scheme, similar to the one used in Australia years ago, and there is a 3-month window to hand in guns under that scheme. The details of the buyback scheme have yet to be announced though, and there is a lot of concern around whether it will fairly compensate people for their investment in not only the guns themselves, but also other items that will be worthless without the guns (e.g. reloading equipment, accessories, ammunition).

But to be honest, the collapse of due democratic process is actually of more concern than the law itself. It sets a very bad precedent.
So sad to see.
 
So enormous changes to firearms laws have now been rushed through parliament, bypassing normal procedure, and will be adopted later this week. Submissions were allowed, but there were only 48 hours to present submissions (in which 13,000 submissions were received, which the government claims were mostly in favour of the law changes). One day of hearings from people the government had hand-picked to be allowed to speak to the select committee. And after about 2 days of deliberation the recommendation is to adopt the law with minor tweaks. So given the timeframe it's obvious that virtually none of the submissions were actually read, other than a secretary quickly glancing at them to roughly categorise them into "support", "oppose" or "other" while ignoring the contents.

The new law effectively bans all semiautomatic weapons, and even many pump-actions. You can have a semiautomatic .22 with no more than a 10 round magazine, or a semi- or pump-action shotgun with no more than 5 rounds and no ability to take an extended magazine. And there is a small allowance for collectors to keep other guns under some circumstances, with case-by-case approval, provided they are kept in a disabled condition. And an allowance for licenced pest-control businesses to use semiautomatics when there is a clear job that cannot be done effectively without them. But other than that you're basically stuck with bolt actions.

There will be a buyback scheme, similar to the one used in Australia years ago, and there is a 3-month window to hand in guns under that scheme. The details of the buyback scheme have yet to be announced though, and there is a lot of concern around whether it will fairly compensate people for their investment in not only the guns themselves, but also other items that will be worthless without the guns (e.g. reloading equipment, accessories, ammunition).

But to be honest, the collapse of due democratic process is actually of more concern than the law itself. It sets a very bad precedent.
Some people believe that some of the criminals from past regimes in the US are preparing NZ as a place to escape to and hole up.
 
Lots of wealthy Americans own land in NZ. It's certainly a fact. But also many wealthy Chinese own land here. I've always seen this as a good thing - I hope that when (not if) things get messy in the world, enough high-ranking US and Chinese people will have sent their family members over here to be "safe" that neither side will want to bomb us and we'll end up some sort of neutral territory for negotiations etc. It might be wishful thinking though. I don't think that's got much to do with the current shooting & law changes though.

The fundamental reason we've gone downhill so fast is that our Prime Minister is a young socialist woman with a young baby. She's thinking emotionally and not rationally, jumping to actions without thinking first. She even admits she's making decisions based on emotion - and thinks this is a good thing. And almost every other politician is so weak-willed they're just going along with her. There will no doubt be a backlash at the next election, but it will be too small and too late to change anything.
 
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