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If you start to believe that your husband is the only one accountable for your actions then you are beginning to think like a cult.
SweetLissa
 
Sweet Lisa you seem to be a little independent, we are under our husband's headship.
God told men to purify their wives, so men are the purifiers, leaders, the one we go to for questinos, the one who leads the household,even a bishop, if a man doesnt rule his own house well, how can he lead the church, the house is in order when my husband does his part and I do my part. I am responsible for when I sin against God commandments, I am responsible for doing what the word says, most of everything I know came from my husband, which came from Jesus, who is head over him. So what ever he tells me to do I'm held responsible to do for God and my own salvation.
 
So if your husband was molesting your daughter, and your husband told you not to go to the authorities, would you not say anything to the police? Just because he is our husband doesn't mean he is perfect. I have not ever said that I would willingly not submit to my husband. But I will not willingly sin for him.

By the way, I am fully under my husband's authority. This is his opinion too. He is the one who has instructed me in this. So if I agree with you, I am no longer submitting to him, am I?

SweetLissa
 
By the way, my hubby holds a MDiv and is currently working on his THD. He has devoted the last 30 or so years of his life to studying God's word and has been a pastor. His qualifications as a theologian satisfy my need to know whether he understands God's word or not.

SweetLissa
 
So has your husband ever told you to sin sweet Lisa?
 
No, and I don't expect him to. But there are many "leaders" who have done these exact things and have convinced their wives that they had to because of "submission" My husband personally knows of situations exactly like these. He has counselled many people who have these exact views. I personally know a woman who was kicked out of her church because she left her Marine husband who used her as a punching bag on a regular basis. These are things that happen, and if women buy into the "you are under my thumb and must submit no matter what" then those men in the world who tend to do these things will hurt women and maybe others IN GOD'S NAME. I had a son-in-law who was like this. He brutalized my step-daughter in the name of SUBMISSION. Just because I don't think my hubby would do it doesn't mean that there isn't some husband out there who does. If we are on a public board and say these things then abused women who seek help will believe there is no help for her.

I don't want that.

I love my husband and I submit to him. But that is the line that is drawn and he is the one who drew it.

SweetLissa
 
Sweet Lisa you are absolutely right about certain situations, that may arise, whether its abuse, molestation, cheating, ect. For safety reasons, seperation may be necessary, and in every way, that is allowed for safety, just not divorce. But this dont got nothing to do with him telling you to sin, it has everything to do with safety, because of disease, injury, ect.
 
So you wouldn't call the police to protect your child. I am not talking about divorce, but submission. I have seen all these situations and more. I have seen pain and suffering at the hands of so-called Godly men.

Here is a good one,

Say your husband threatened to kill himself and asked you not to tell anyone. Would you? Someone very close to me lived through that one. I have a lady friend who married a man who was secretly gay. He put her at risk for aids. Did she have to have sex with him? The stories go on and on.

SweetLissa
 
If he told me not to seperate that's submission of following him, if he told me to seperate, that's submission of following him, but sometimes it may be necessary, God will lead both parties in the right direction.
 
1Peter 3 Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear.

I think when the husband may not be on the Godly path, God will protect that women.
 
Sweet Lisa, I thought polygany was sin, when my husband brought it to me, I no longer think this way of corse, but this is just an example of what we are discussing. I could all day say that was sin, but how do I know what is sin and what is not, some things may look like sin but arent, how can I be the judge of certain issues?
 
But there are sins that a clearly sin and not questioned. I haven't talked about any sin but those.

SweetLissa
 
However, you have not answered my questions about wives who get abused, children who get abused (whether you can protect them) or about husbands who lie with men and still expect their wives to be sexually active with them. I know of people who have lived through each of these situations. They are not "impossible to imagine" because I know people who have lived through these hells. If I am to do as you suggest, then these people and their children live in absolute hell.

And you have not noted the fact that I am totally in submission to my husband because he agrees with me on this.

SweetLissa
 
And you have not noted the fact that I am totally in submission to my husband because he agrees with me on this.
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Through it all my husband has always told me there is nothing wrong with exposing truth to another women, but regardless she is suppose to still follow her husband's teaching, and rules.
 
However, you have not answered my questions about wives who get abused, children who get abused (whether you can protect them) or about husbands who lie with men and still expect their wives to be sexually active with them.
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I haven't got that far yet sweet Lisa, I'll have to come back to you on that.
 
Here is the deal. I am not going to argue because you will find something to negate everything I say. The reality is that God expects women to submit to their husbands, but only as she submits to God. God cannot sin therefore we can have absolute faith that God will never ask us to do anything that goes against his will. However, our husbands are men and therefore they may fall from God's grace. 1 Peter says we are to obey them even if they are not following God. This means if my husband falls away from God I am still to obey him, but NOT if it comes to deliberate sin. I am not talking about opinion, manipulation or anything else that shows me to be an "independent" woman. I am talking about salvation issues.

I hope you never have to deal with any of these awful things, but lets supposed in 15 years, when your daughter comes to you and says, "Mom, I know I am supposed to submit to hubby, but he has lost his job and he has me going into stores to steal food, what shall I do?" Do you think you will have your daughter continue to steal stuff, even if it can put her in jail?

If my husband ever falls from grace and resorts to sin, I will not knowingly commit a sin no matter what my husband says. He knows this and he is the one that told me that it was the one exception. So if I submit to him, this is what I follow.

SweetLissa
 
Just not in agreement with you on this, that was a bad example, because that women/ your daughter or my daughter should follow her husband above anyone else, because I'm no longer her covering, her husband is. And I would give her some food to help out, and tell her to follow her husband, and if her husband told her to do it, he's liable, not her. Enough said about issue, we stand in two differnent points about it.
 
Wow, if being a Christian means I have to allow myself or my child to be abused or put in jail, I am glad I'm not one.

B
 
I consider myself Christian, and my husband also is a Christian. And I also consider myself obligated to give my husband the benefit of the faith and intelligence God blessed me with. I am not a bibical scholar, but I have heard of many women active in the early Christian church. Was it only the single women that could contribute to the honor of Jesus?

When my husband asks something of me I am willing to do as he requested, above all other interference in my life. But to quietly preform, blindly supporting something sinful on his part, would be to assist in his own fall from Grace. Certainly God did not bless man with a helpmate to go against God's own will.

I just read of a man that fathered several children with his daughters, some were pre-teen when he began to have sex with them. Incest is against the Laws of God and nature, but his wife submitted to his decision and did not either leave him, protect her daughters from him, or report him (even to her church). I cannot believe that when she comes face to face with the Lord, He will give her a great blessing for being such an obedient wife.

Forgive me for simply giving my personal opinion, without bibical references to support the argument. If anyone could help me out on that side, I would certainly appreciate it.

Pat
 
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