Torah keepers and sacred name.

[Mark C]

These are just a few passages to consider...Food for thought.

The reason I am not a preterist honestly has nothing to do with such, I'm afraid, since I have no problem with the concept of multiple fulfillment in prophecy.

My problem is simpler: How can one read Revelation and NOT see post-Constitutional Amerika as "the Whore of Babylon" is beyond me. We used to be a free country; yesterday the last small vestiges of honest money and integrity in markets was wiped out when the biggest communist economic takeover in history took place. The world has never seen such a high level of utterly shameless graft, corruption, and theft as now conducted by the Fed, Treasury, and PPT:

"For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies...

For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double..." (Rev. 18:3-6)

Years ago, when I was in the process of turning from agnositicism, it was Revelation 13 that really hit me like 2x4 between the eyes. I was an EE by background, and had realized back in the mid-90's how RFID technology made the "mark" technologically inevitable; I could see the laws that would usurp Constitutional protections already being put into place, and even how the abomination would be sold was becoming obvious (think "Amber alerts" and removal of children from "extremist" parents who abuse their kids by not chipping them).

I am utterly convinced that we will all see, VERY soon, a totalitarian government with complete biometric control over all of the prole..., er, "citizens" - one which will not permit anyone to engage in "commerce" (aka "no one may buy or sell") without said mark. Prototypes for associated 'FutureStores' are being constructed now in a couple of US major test markets.

So, whether or not there may have been some things around AD 70 which might be construed as potential 'end-times' precursors - I remain firmly convinced that what is coming will convince most people that "we ain't seen nuthin' yet".

Time will tell. :shock:

 

[^_^]

I'll go even further:
when Yahweh's temple is rebuilt, I suspect that societies will at first be repulsed by the shedding of blood again, but then once they see and accept, it will again become acceptable in a depraved society to sacrifice one's children the the sun, moon and star 'gods' to appease them for the fact that their nations get no rain because of their refusal to go to Jerusalem for Feast of Tabernacles.
Their minds have already been conditioned to accept that it's wrong to do as we have been commanded, thus any other alternative is viable.

 

[Tlaloc]

This is a very good and well articulated discussion, are you sure this is actually a website?

Christian forums always seem rife with idle chatter and flame wars, but to be for poly you have to be pretty grounded, so I don't see that among Poly Christians. Thanks to the debaters and Face for a good discussion.

 

[davidtee]

Since I didn't know where else to put this, I'll put it here. It's sort of an introductory thing I guess

I've come a long way, baby. Out of christianity, out of should be monogamy, out of lots of repressive ways of thinking.
So, to make a long story short, I attempt to keep the 7th day sabbath, the bibilical feasts as best I know, avoiding to the best of my knowledge the unclean critters scripture says not to eat and that sort of thing.
Yes, I know it's not my righteousness that saves me, but I figure if the God of heaven and earth bothered to come down to give instructions to us, we might as well listen, after all, he's smarter.
I see nothing in the so called new testament that contradicts or overturns any of this stuff unless it's been twisted and tampered with.
I also tend not to use the term 'the Lord' as I have discovered that he revealed his name to the patriarchs many years ago. I figure if it was good enough for them, it's good enough for me. No problems though, I don't bash other people's heads if they do.
So, Halleluyah, I'm glad to see people living patriarchal lifestyles.
Looks to me to be the best for eveyone involved.

WOW....we are gonna get along just fine. Love to taslk more as this is an area of passion for me. We have been feast keepers since 2006 and really LOVE it! So much FUN to keep the WORD!

Love to see: one of the Biblical Family meetings just "happened" to fall on Sukkot in October!

Blessings!

 

[^_^]

Last fall I was at a feast site in Missori, and met a fellow and his wife there that would fit in good on this forum.
I just chatted with his wife this past sabbath, and they have a prospective wife they are talking to, and she made a comment that sort of made me grin, she said she is talking to the prospective wife more than her husband actually is, and I thought that made a lot of sense, because guess who would probably be spending more time together anyway....

Nice to meet you davidtee, who knows, maybe we've already met somewhere :-D

 

[brYce]

If you are a member of the 10 lost tribes of Israel then stay lost till Christ finds you.

Wow... that is funny... I'm still laughing... thanks! :lol: :lol:

 

[brYce]

If you actually believe that ALL these practices (circumcision, holy feast days, animal sacrifices, incense, holy anointed oil, Sabbath observance, Levitical priesthood in the tabernacle) are still in effect, then you would be consistent in your view.

I have NEVER said anything other than EXACTLY that, David. And I do not believe He did. Whether it is YHVH of Whom Malachi says "I change not", and Who is the same "yesterday, today, and tomorrow", or Our Savior Who clearly came not to change "one yod or tiddle" until ALL is fulfilled AND "heaven and earth pass" - I think that Scripture is clear, and He is consistent.

Then we are in agreement that Scripture is clear and that He is consistent. My apologies if I misunderstood what you were actually saying. Most Sabbatarians I have talked with in the past have argued against the continuation of the Levitical priesthood and animal sacrifices while arguing for the continuation of dietary laws, Sabbath observance or physical circumcision. You are consistent in your view that they must all still exist. I am consistent in my view that they must have all passed away. We both agree that Messiah clearly stated not one bit of the Mosaic Law would pass until "heaven and earth pass" and "all is fulfilled". We simply disagree on the time statements He gave His disciples as to WHEN this would occur. We both believe in the inspiration of Scripture. I can live with that.

This was taken from the bottom of page 10 of this discussion. I'm reading through this discussion and it's been very interesting to see what everyone believes. I would like to say that I am very glad that you gentlemen resolved this and came to a mutual understanding!

 

[brYce]

(Quoted from page 11 of this discussion - additions in red are mine)
Those who say that ALL of the Law still applies, (1) do you make sure that your fibers are not mixed?

Neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee." -- Leviticus 19:19

(2) Do you make sure your beard isn't rounded?

"Ye shall not round the corners of your heads." -- Leviticus 19:27

(3) Do you make sure that you do not hold hands, touch, or kiss your wife for a season each month?

"When a woman has a discharge of blood, which is her regular discharge from her body, she shall be in her impurity for seven days, and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening." -- Leviticus 15:19-20

(4) If you got into a physical fight with another man, and your wife jumped in and grabbed the private parts of the other man, would you cut her hand off?

"When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand." -- Deuteronomy 25:11-12

(1) Leviticus 19:19 Yes, I do not mix linen and wool in the same garment. My Master and all of His disciples did the same.

(2) Leviticus 19:27 Yes, I do not destroy my beard. My Master and all of His disciples did the same.

(3) Leviticus 15:19-20 No, I touch my wife during her niddah, but I do not have sex with her - it is a terrible sin to have sex with a woman who is in her time of niddah (Leviticus 18:19). Does it matter that a man becomes ritually impure from touching his wife if there is no Temple for him to go into for worship? If the Temple were standing it would be wrong for someone to go to the Temple while in a state of ritual impurity. Ritual impurity is tied to worship at the Temple.

Does it matter that we are washed clean in the blood of our Master? No, you cannot enter His Temple unless you are ritually pure. Perhaps some will disagree with this, so if you want to discuss it in detail be patient. I'm going to be starting a discussion to examine the New Covenant in detail, and I believe that we'll cover this in that discussion.

For those who are interested, here is an opinion on niddah from a council of Rabbis who love our Master Yeshua.

Now, there is a deeper spiritual element that is taught by the Sages concerning ritual impurity that is very interesting and this is a topic that I am still studying. Like all of the traditions, it isn't something that will adopt unless I become convinced it is right. It is also interesting to note that the Pharisees seemed to have sought to maintain a state of ritual purity at all times, so they would have probably been very concerned about this even if they were days away from the Temple.

(4) Deuteronomy 25:11-12 First, if this verse is indeed saying that a woman should have her hand cut off for grabbing a man's genitals then it would have to be done in accordance with Biblical justice. There would have to be witnesses that accused her. The council of elders would question the witnesses and she, in turn, could provide her own witnesses. If the elders could not come to a conclusion they would go to the Temple and the Priests there would inquire of Hashem. I believe that Biblical justice requires the Sanhedrin and a Temple with it's Levitical Priesthood for it to even begin to function.

However, the traditional interpretation of verses like this one and the famous "eye for an eye" passage have to do with monetary reimbursement for the offended parties and have not been taken literally by the Sages. This is one of the big problems Gentiles have when trying to understand the Bible - ignorance of how His people have interpreted for millennia. I also believe that this ignorance of the Scriptures and their interpretation led to the early congregations steering away from things they thought were only associated with the Jewish people. And, the Fiscus Judaicus didn't help either.

I would also like to emphasis that I do not agree that everything we have in the Talmud is correct, but I believe it is proper to say that most of the mishnah is accurate.

 

[brYce]

"Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision" matter a whit so far as salvation is concerned,


But if I had a newborn baby boy born tomorrow, I'd have him circumcised on the eighth day. Science is still trying to figure out what those who read the Bible knew long ago - he'll be better off for it. Some of us simply call that a "blessing". Just don't confuse it with an attempt to "earn" salvation, or be "under" something.

Here is a great paper discussing circumcision for you scholarly types:

"The Theological Significance of Circumcision"
http://www.torahresource.com/EnglishArt ... ionETS.pdf