^_^ said:
Supposes what you are saying is true, Yahweh did tell us he wouldn't do a thing without telling the prophets first.
Why is it the prophet Isaiah saw messiah, predicted his birth, as did Daniel, and said nothing about the end of Torah?
Why is it the minor prophets who saw the end times, and in telling us about them conveniently forgot to mention this detail? And it's not like it was a minor detail that just was forgotten to be mentioned.
Daniel 9:24: “Seventy weeks are decreed
for YOUR people and for YOUR set-apart city, to put an end to the transgression, and to seal up sins, and to cover crookedness, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the Most Set-apart.”
^_^ said:
Why is it our messiah himself didn't mention the end of Torah?
Not all Torah (as you mean it) has passed away, simply the Mosaic law, the added law, the law exclusively given to the nation of physical Israel as distinguished from eternal law of God given to all mankind. Galatians 3 tells us precisely when the Torah began and when it was to end.
Galatians 3:17-19: “Now this I say, Torah, that
came four hundred and thirty years later, does not annul a covenant previously confirmed by Elohim in Messiah, so as to do away with the promise. For if the inheritance is by Torah, it is no longer by promise, but Elohim gave it to Abraham through a promise. Why, then, the Torah? It was added because of transgressions,
until the Seed should come to whom the promise was made. And it was ordained through messengers in the hand of a mediator.”
Torah began 430 years after Abraham received the promise, and Torah ended when the Seed came to who the promise was made. That much is clear Scripture, regardless what we think of end times. Laws applicable to everyone else, whether also given to Moses at Sinai, are eternal. But to answer your actual question...
Luke 21:22, 32-33: “Because these are the days of vengeance, to
fill ALL that have been written...Truly, I say to you, this generation shall by no means pass away till all shall have taken place.
The heaven and the earth SHALL pass away, but My words shall by no means pass away.”
Matthew 5:18: “For truly, I say to you,
TILL the heaven and the earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done.”
I’ve previously shown the numerous places in the Old Testament where “heaven and earth” were destroyed multiple times in the course of God’s judgment coming on a nation. The “heaven and earth” being referred to this time by Jesus is THEIR “heaven and earth”; the powers and peoples of Old Jerusalem.
Isaiah 65:17-18: “For look,
I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, nor come to heart. But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I create; for look,
I create Yerushalayim a rejoicing, and her people a joy.”
Is there any doubt that the “new heavens and new earth” refer to the New Jerusalem? The terms are synonymous.
Rev. 3:12: “...I shall write on him the Name of My Elohim and the name of the city of My Elohim,
the new Yerushalayim, which comes down out of the heaven from My Elohim...”
Rev. 21:1-2: “And I saw
a new heaven and a new earth, for the
former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. And I, Yohanan, saw the set-apart city,
new Yerushalayim, coming down out of the heaven from Elohim, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
If the new heaven and earth refer to the new Jerusalem, what do the former heaven and earth refer to? What was soon passing away?
Jesus said the heaven and earth was passing away. He said His words would not pass away along with the passing of the heaven and earth. He said until heaven and earth passed away, not one bit of the Torah would pass away. At the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD, their heaven and earth passed away, along with animal sacrifices, levitical priests, Temple worship, etc.
I know this is a lot to try to take in at once, and I never meant for this to turn into an eschatology discussion. The heaven and earth is a direct reference to the Mosaic age system. The end of the heaven and the earth correlates to the end of their age, the age that the NT Scriptures state over and over was about to come to a complete end. All they were waiting on was the destruction of the Temple, which was symbolic of their present covenantal status.
Hebrews 9:8-9a: “the Set-apart Spirit signifying this, that the way into
the Most Set-apart Place was NOT YET MADE MANIFEST while the first Tent has a standing, which was
a parable for the present time in which both gifts and slaughters are offered...”
The physical Temple was a symbol for their present age. The disciples understood the connection between the destruction of the Temple and the end of the age.
Matthew 24:1-3: “And going out, Yahushua went away from the Set-apart Place, and His taught ones came near to point out to Him the buildings of the Set-apart Place. And Yahushua said to them, “Do you not see all these? Truly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, at all, which shall not be thrown down.” And as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the taught ones came to Him separately, saying, “Say to us, when shall this be, and what is the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
Yeshua tells them that their Temple will be completely torn down, and their thoughts immediately run to the end of the age. They understood that the destruction of the Temple, His coming, and the end of the age were all connected. They all speak to the same event.
^_^ said:
This is not a small matter, it would have been life changing, and would have received alot more attention than a passing obscure statement, it would have been announced clearly by the same folks who saw the messiah by faith, it would have been announced by those who saw the end times.
Funny they didn't have the clarity of vision being expressed here.....
It was actually much more than just a
life changing event, it was a
covenantal termination event. It was the judgment of God coming against the physical nation of Israel for her spiritual adultery. We certainly have no Scripture records of events beyond their fulfillment, but God didn’t leave us without plenty of historical evidence, if we bother to check it out...
“The Wars of the Jews”, by the historian Josephus, Book 6, Chapter 5, Section 3:
(288) Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God himself; while they did not attend, nor give credit, to the signs that were so evident and did so plainly foretell their future desolation; but, like men infatuated, without either eyes to see, or minds to consider, did not regard the denunciations that God made to them.
(289) Thus
there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year.
(290) Thus also, before the Jews rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus [Nisan], and
at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which light lasted for half an hour.
(291) This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskillful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes, as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it.
(292) At the same festival also,
a heifer, as she was led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple.
(293) Moreover,
the eastern gate of the inner [court of the] temple, which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone,
was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night.
(294) Now, those that kept watch in the temple came hereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it: who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty, was able to shut the gate again.
(295) This also appeared to the vulgar to be a very happy prodigy, as if God did thereby open them the gate of happiness. But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies.
(296) So these publicly declared, that this signal foreshadowed the desolation that was coming upon them. Beside these, a few days after that feast, on the twenty-first day of the month Artemisius [Jyar],
(297) a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it,
(298) and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sunsetting,
chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen
(299)
running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place,
they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise,
(300) and after that
they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, “Let us remove hence.”
Now understand that Josephus’ writings are in no way to be considered as anything more than historical writings. He was not himself a believer in Messiah, but simply a Jewish historian that ended up switching sides during the seven year war. But look at some of the events that occurred according to what he wrote from those final days of Jerusalem. In itself, it means nothing, but when combined with what Scripture prophesied, I think it speaks volumes about those events. It’s mostly boring reading (at least to me), but there’s a lot of valuable tidbits like these if you want to read what was recorded yourself.
Love in Him,
David
