Ultimatums

[Cap]

I understand the concept of love your wife as Christ loves the church. And in the process of trying to build a pm relationship in regards to the patients to be extended to the wife and even potiential wife, but at what point does patients turn in to control on the part of the wife or potiential wife of they get to the place of ultimatums?

Is there a limit? Even God has limits, are there any in a pm building process?

What's the best way to avoid getting to this place?

Is getting to this place some kind of sign of weakness in faith, love?

 

[WifeOfHisYouth]

Should a wife give an ultimatum? Absolutely not. It is not her place to be able to do that. Can she leave? If she decided to, but she can’t divorce and must remain single.

Has the thought of an ultimatum ever crossed the mind of a woman put in the situation of having to accept plural marriage, probably. I know it crossed my mind as well as many other horrible painful thoughts.

The initial stages of learning about plural marriage and the pain, from the utter heartbreak involved, is as close to the pain of if my husband shattered my femur. Even if it was unintentional, the pain nonetheless is excruciating. There has to be time to heal and let the damage be repaired. The pain gently starts to dull to where the pain becomes more manageable and you rely less on painkillers- however if a man mistakes this reprieve as complete healing more damage can be done. Patience is just asking that he wait until healing has happened then slowly work on the physical therapy involved to move forward. (Like learning to walk again)

When a man sees the healing has just begun then demands his wife to run a marathon on her broken leg, can she do it? Maybe. But at what cost? The damage done, from the lack of patience, will take a lot longer for her to heal, or she may never.

A loving, wise husband can gauge where his wife is at in accepting this life, he will be able to guide her and correct her where needed. He will kindly push her in areas he knows she can handle, even when she doubts herself. A man that leads in love makes it easier for a wife to follow.

A man that is swayed by just wanting to get some because he can, has no compassion on the brokenness of his wife’s heart and is not leading his home and expects it all to be done within a few short months, will most likely bring destruction on his home.

How much time is needed? That depends on the individual home and how the man leads his home. There is no perfect answer.

How to avoid getting to that place? Don’t make her run a marathon when she has a broken femur.

 

[Well loved wife]

A loving, wise husband can gauge where his wife is at in accepting this life, he will be able to guide her and correct her where needed. He will kindly push her in areas he knows she can handle, even when she doubts herself. A man that leads in love makes it easier for a wife to follow.

A man that is swayed by just wanting to get some because he can, has no compassion on the brokenness of his wife’s heart and is not leading his home and expects it all to be done within a few short months, will most likely bring destruction on his home.

Right there!!

 

[PeteR]

Should a wife give an ultimatum? Absolutely not. It is not her place to be able to do that. Can she leave? If she decided to, but she can’t divorce and must remain single.

Has the thought of an ultimatum ever crossed the mind of a woman put in the situation of having to accept plural marriage, probably. I know it crossed my mind as well as many other horrible painful thoughts.

The initial stages of learning about plural marriage and the pain, from the utter heartbreak involved, is as close to the pain of if my husband shattered my femur. Even if it was unintentional, the pain nonetheless is excruciating. There has to be time to heal and let the damage be repaired. The pain gently starts to dull to where the pain becomes more manageable and you rely less on painkillers- however if a man mistakes this reprieve as complete healing more damage can be done. Patience is just asking that he wait until healing has happened then slowly work on the physical therapy involved to move forward. (Like learning to walk again)

When a man sees the healing has just begun then demands wife to run a marathon on her broken leg, can she do it, maybe. But at what cost? The damage done from the lack of patience will take a lot longer for her to heal, or she may never.

A loving, wise husband can gauge where his wife is at in accepting this life, he will be able to guide her and correct her where needed. He will kindly push her in areas he knows she can handle, even when she doubts herself. A man that leads in love makes it easier for a wife to follow.

A man that is swayed by just wanting to get some because he can, has no compassion on the brokenness of his wife’s heart and is not leading his home and expects it all to be done within a few short months, will most likely bring destruction on his home.

How much time is needed? That depends on the individual home and how the man leads his home. There is no perfect answer.

How to avoid getting to that place? Don’t make her run a marathon when she has a broken femur.

Great analogy!

 

[rejoicinghandmaid]

Should a wife give an ultimatum? Absolutely not. It is not her place to be able to do that. Can she leave? If she decided to, but she can’t divorce and must remain single.

Has the thought of an ultimatum ever crossed the mind of a woman put in the situation of having to accept plural marriage, probably. I know it crossed my mind as well as many other horrible painful thoughts.

The initial stages of learning about plural marriage and the pain, from the utter heartbreak involved, is as close to the pain of if my husband shattered my femur. Even if it was unintentional, the pain nonetheless is excruciating. There has to be time to heal and let the damage be repaired. The pain gently starts to dull to where the pain becomes more manageable and you rely less on painkillers- however if a man mistakes this reprieve as complete healing more damage can be done. Patience is just asking that he wait until healing has happened then slowly work on the physical therapy involved to move forward. (Like learning to walk again)

When a man sees the healing has just begun then demands wife to run a marathon on her broken leg, can she do it, maybe. But at what cost? The damage done from the lack of patience will take a lot longer for her to heal, or she may never.

A loving, wise husband can gauge where his wife is at in accepting this life, he will be able to guide her and correct her where needed. He will kindly push her in areas he knows she can handle, even when she doubts herself. A man that leads in love makes it easier for a wife to follow.

A man that is swayed by just wanting to get some because he can, has no compassion on the brokenness of his wife’s heart and is not leading his home and expects it all to be done within a few short months, will most likely bring destruction on his home.

How much time is needed? That depends on the individual home and how the man leads his home. There is no perfect answer.

How to avoid getting to that place? Don’t make her run a marathon when she has a broken femur.

@WifeOfHisYouth--that was some very well-thought-out visuals. So easy to understand end results of both patience and impatience. You scored a 3 pointer with the "swish"! Patience will carry a believer farther in just about every circumstance with better results, less hurt, less damage, and cross the finish line with a rejoicing heart instead of crawling or limping across just to say you finished the race. Thank you!! It greatly encourages my heart. Psalm 27:14 is a Scripture song I often sing to myself and to the Lord when I grow weary of waiting for His timing, His will. To step ahead of Yeshua, or to draw back when He is leading you forward will only cause a process to lenghten because He must then bring us back into alignment with Him, allow the brokenness to heal, and then gently begin leading us again. I really think the our spirit is often yielded, but the weakness of our flesh is what trips us up and causes the fray. Oh that we would be delivered from ourselves! We are often our own worst enemy. Thank you again so much for sharing!

 

[rejoicinghandmaid]

I understand the concept of love your wife as Christ loves the church. And in the process of trying to build a pm relationship in regards to the patients to be extended to the wife and even potiential wife, but at what point does patients turn in to control on the part of the wife or potiential wife of they get to the place of ultimatums?

Is there a limit? Even God has limits, are there any in a pm building process?

What's the best way to avoid getting to this place?

Is getting to this place some kind of sign of weakness in faith, love?

@Cap Those are some excellent questions! All very important. I can see why you as a man would be asking them, maybe more so than a woman in a BF family or possible relationship because you are in the lead on this thing. My 2 cents worth would reference an ultimatum from either a man to his FW or to a PW as well as a wife or potential to the man. I could well be wrong, but usually an ultimatum centers around the "me" rather than the "we" and seldom regards the "HE". I'm so new at the concepts of BF I hope I'm not putting my foot in my mouth . In life I've just seen the sweet Holy Spirit be faithful to bring answers that either close the door or show that a door is still open. It may not be in our timing, but I've seen it play out. I always ask for a defined answer from the Lord. I don't want a maybe, or think so, or gray area that I can totally misconstrue in my oh so human pea brain logic. So I ask the Lord for defined, definite answers--ones I can't miss. The ultimatum often comes in the form of a threat or is seen as a threat to the one given the ultimatum or by the one giving the ultimatum. Once a threat is in place, it's often hard to retract it, regroup, repair, or respond without fear. The enemy then uses the fear to do it's own work--drive a wedge, paralyze, wound, or cause the demise of something that was already on the brink. Maybe it was supposed to end--but you would want it to end right. Maybe it still needed time for new life. I truly believe either way, Yeshua will give definite answers. It is the Father's responsibility to let the children know what His will is. As children in the human family, we were not supposed to be trying to figure out what dad wanted and shaking in fear that we might not have gotten it right because we didn't know what he wanted and then live in fear of the consequences for not knowing. Dad told us what he wanted, mom backed him, and we listened and did our best to obey. If we didn't hear clearly we asked questions until we understood enough to carry out the directions. True, dad might have given an ultimatum such as, "If these chores aren't done by the time I get home tonight, there will be consequences!" Well, he was dad so he could say that. Mom might also have given some ultimatums like, "If you don't clean your room, you won't be going to the swimming pool today." Again she was in a position of authority over the children in dad's absence. I don't know how to fit these examples of ultimatums into a PM relationship with FW and PW. But then what do I know?!? Sure looking forward to your comments and hearing others respond on this topic. I need to understand this from how the men see this. I get it from the woman's end, I think.

 

[Cap]

Ultimatums come from fear that comes from uncertainty that comes from lack of patience that comes from lack of love that comes from both hearts.

 

[Keith Martin]

@Cap Those are some excellent questions! All very important. I can see why you as a man would be asking them, maybe more so than a woman in a BF family or possible relationship because you are in the lead on this thing. My 2 cents worth would reference an ultimatum from either a man to his FW or to a PW as well as a wife or potential to the man. I could well be wrong, but usually an ultimatum centers around the "me" rather than the "we" and seldom regards the "HE". I'm so new at the concepts of BF I hope I'm not putting my foot in my mouth . In life I've just seen the sweet Holy Spirit be faithful to bring answers that either close the door or show that a door is still open. It may not be in our timing, but I've seen it play out. I always ask for a defined answer from the Lord. I don't want a maybe, or think so, or gray area that I can totally misconstrue in my oh so human pea brain logic. So I ask the Lord for defined, definite answers--ones I can't miss. The ultimatum often comes in the form of a threat or is seen as a threat to the one given the ultimatum or by the one giving the ultimatum. Once a threat is in place, it's often hard to retract it, regroup, repair, or respond without fear. The enemy then uses the fear to do it's own work--drive a wedge, paralyze, wound, or cause the demise of something that was already on the brink. Maybe it was supposed to end--but you would want it to end right. Maybe it still needed time for new life. I truly believe either way, Yeshua will give definite answers. It is the Father's responsibility to let the children know what His will is. As children in the human family, we were not supposed to be trying to figure out what dad wanted and shaking in fear that we might not have gotten it right because we didn't know what he wanted and then live in fear of the consequences for not knowing. Dad told us what he wanted, mom backed him, and we listened and did our best to obey. If we didn't hear clearly we asked questions until we understood enough to carry out the directions. True, dad might have given an ultimatum such as, "If these chores aren't done by the time I get home tonight, there will be consequences!" Well, he was dad so he could say that. Mom might also have given some ultimatums like, "If you don't clean your room, you won't be going to the swimming pool today." Again she was in a position of authority over the children in dad's absence. I don't know how to fit these examples of ultimatums into a PM relationship with FW and PW. But then what do I know?!? Sure looking forward to your comments and hearing others respond on this topic. I need to understand this from how the men see this. I get it from the woman's end, I think.

I highly appreciate the thoughtfulness that accompanies everything you wrote in this post, @rejoicinghandmaid. I'm not a woman, so the only way I have of judging whether you get it from the woman's perspective is to say that my experience reading your response was one of feeling privileged to have the opportunity to read the perspective of a woman who made me feel like I could understand her perspective without actually being a woman myself.

 

[rejoicinghandmaid]

I highly appreciate the thoughtfulness that accompanies everything you wrote in this post, @rejoicinghandmaid. I'm not a woman, so the only way I have of judging whether you get it from the woman's perspective is to say that my experience reading your response was one of feeling privileged to have the opportunity to read the perspective of a woman who made me feel like I could understand her perspective without actually being a woman myself.

Well, that was a mouthful . Thank you. I'm really interested though in hearing from you guys on this. My questions are based on a marriage setting. Should a husband give an ultimatum to a FW regarding acceptance of PW? Should a man give PW an ultimatum regarding FW? Could an ultimatum be used to garner a decision within a wanted time frame? Is giving an ultimatum getting in the way of God's timing and leading? Is giving an ultimatum an attempt at placing the outcome on the shoulders of the one receiving the ultimatum and thus sidestepping or avoiding having to make a difficult decision? Is there a time when an ultimatum would be warranted in either poly or mono--ie: child abuse, extreme verbal abuse, or physical abuse? Could giving ultimatums become a form of control, thereby ruling/leading with fear rather than love?

I think @Cap had a good thread of thought above when he said, "Ultimatums come from fear that comes from uncertainty that comes from lack of patience that comes from lack of love that comes from both hearts."

 

[Verifyveritas76]

I’m personally not a big fan of ultimatums though perhaps they have their place. I’d rather be more like the shepherd that is heading in a particular direction and my “sheep” follow me because they know me and hear my voice. Sometimes a steadfast determination to follow God’s leading regardless of the consequences could be construed as an ultimatum from one who is having an issue following.

 

[Keith Martin]

I’m personally not a big fan of ultimatums though perhaps they have their place. I’d rather be more like the shepherd that is heading in a particular direction and my “sheep” follow me because they know me and hear my voice. Sometimes a steadfast determination to follow God’s leading regardless of the consequences could be construed as an ultimatum from one who is having an issue following.

I concur. More than one wise man from this support network cautioned me in early conversations about my desire to have a plural family to do everything in my power to wait to take on a second wife until my already wife was accepting of the possibility. I am so thankful for that wisdom. What I've recognized since then is that this 'struggle' is no different from any other realm of being: ultimatums are generally issued by individuals who are insufficiently confident about what they're demanding.

 

[rockfox]

what point does patients turn in to control on the part of the wife

This depends on the wife; no hard and fast rules or times (i.e. x days long). But yes, a wife may well use pleas of patience or 'broken heart' or the like to prevent you from proceeding while at the same time she refuses to come to terms with things.

Is getting to this place some kind of sign of weakness in faith, love?

Maybe. Maybe not. Depends on the person and situation.

What's the best way to avoid getting to this place?

Deal with root causes.

How good a leader are you? Is your wife willing to follow you to hell and back, and then do it again? Are you spiritually leading? (and not just on this issue)

What is behind her resistance to PM? Mistrust? Fear? Jealousy? Rebellion? Self-will? Those are all things you need to help her with regardless.

 

[WifeOfHisYouth]

But yes, a wife may well use pleas of patience or 'broken heart' or the like to prevent you from proceeding while at the same time she refuses to come to terms with things.

Yes, and that’s where a good husband comes into play. He can distinguish between a true shattered heart that needs time and a “broken heart” that can survive the next step and needs the encouragement to step out of her comfort zone.

Things like that, I don’t envy you men in making decisions!

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Things like that, I don’t envy you men in making decisions!

But if we can’t handle this well and both come out overcomers, what would make us think we could lead additional women.

 

[rejoicinghandmaid]

But if we can’t handle this well and both come out overcomers, what would make us think we could lead additional women.

Yes, and that is one of the big things that encourages my heart as I listened at retreat and have been on the forum now for several months. I hear the men saying that not only does the wife have major issues to work through and growing and maturing in the spiritual realm, but I also hear the men talking about the transformations they had to move through, the fences they had to get over, the growth of patience, understanding, the learning to lean on and listen to YHWH instead of having it "their way", nurturing they had to develop to lead that FW well. It's a joy to listen to the women explain how their husband led so that they could catch up to where he was. Oh, my goodness--what's being learned here among the men and women isn't just about Biblical families!! What individuals are achieving in their walk with YHWH is affecting every area of their whole life, that of their children, and eventually their grandchildren and generations beyond. So from the bottom of my heart, THANK YOU, men, who are daring to navigate such deep waters because you feel your Adown has said, "Come". You've stepped out of the boat! Peter DID walk on water. He didn't tread water--he walked!

 

[rockfox]

Yes, and that’s where a good husband comes into play. He can distinguish between a true shattered heart that needs time and a “broken heart” that can survive the next step and needs the encouragement to step out of her comfort zone.

Things like that, I don’t envy you men in making decisions!

Yes. We are called to know and understand our wives.

It helps a lot if we have a long history of being a strong leader, physically and spiritually. When you do this, her pattern of life become one of walking in unity and her looking to you for direction and you've already helped her overcome the ways of the world and temptations underneath monogamy.

But if you spring PM on her without having dealt with those things or established that relationship pattern you're going to run headlong into a wall of seemingly insurmountable issues which, while she needs to work through them, will be resistant to your help; both because it is a new relationship dynamic and because she thinks you have ulterior motives.

 

[BeingHeld]

Yes, and that is one of the big things that encourages my heart as I listened at retreat and have been on the forum now for several months. I hear the men saying that not only does the wife have major issues to work through and growing and maturing in the spiritual realm, but I also hear the men talking about the transformations they had to move through, the fences they had to get over, the growth of patience, understanding, the learning to lean on and listen to YHWH instead of having it "their way", nurturing they had to develop to lead that FW well. It's a joy to listen to the women explain how their husband led so that they could catch up to where he was. Oh, my goodness--what's being learned here among the men and women isn't just about Biblical families!! What individuals are achieving in their walk with YHWH is affecting every area of their whole life, that of their children, and eventually their grandchildren and generations beyond. So from the bottom of my heart, THANK YOU, men, who are daring to navigate such deep waters because you feel your Adown has said, "Come". You've stepped out of the boat! Peter DID walk on water. He didn't tread water--he walked!

Rejoicing, I can't say LIKE your post enough! It's so great to share the encouragement at the retreats on how our husbands work so hard to follow God and be the best leader of their families.

 

[rejoicinghandmaid]

I've done some more thinking on this topic of ultimatums. This morning as I was in my Bible time I thought of ultimatums in Scripture. The ones that came to mind immediately were always from conquering kings coming against the nation of Israel. I thought, hmmm--that's interesting. The enemy was issuing the ultimatum. No form of common ground relationship existed and no common ground was being sought--it was a "divide and conquer" mentality.

 

[Keith Martin]

I've done some more thinking on this topic of ultimatums. This morning as I was in my Bible time I thought of ultimatums in Scripture. The ones that came to mind immediately were always from conquering kings coming against the nation of Israel. I thought, hmmm--that's interesting. The enemy was issuing the ultimatum. No form of common ground relationship existed and no common ground was being sought--it was a "divide and conquer" mentality.

¡Sí, señora! The very word 'ultimatum' pretty much precludes any sense of partnership. Knuckling under to an ultimatum isn't submission; it's obedience under threat of dire consequences.

 

[rejoicinghandmaid]

¡Sí, señora! The very word 'ultimatum' pretty much precludes any sense of partnership. Knuckling under to an ultimatum isn't submission; it's obedience under threat of dire consequences.

Sí, creo que este es la verdad.