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War propaganda: don't fall for it

To add to that, I trust Andrew enough to send my wife to stay at his place without me, so I fully agree with all of the above! And I'm just glad to see you around a bit here. I've been suffering from the same scheduling issues myself.

I agree with the "blind men and the elephant" analogy on the meme. I vote we forget it entirely on that basis and get back to the actual purpose of the thread - discussing war propaganda in general.

Personally I feel this is an important topic for Christians. Blessed are the peacemakers. If we are to be peacemakers, we should be being careful to use discernment to see what pieces of "news" are neutral, and what are potentially intended as propaganda to promote war. And then using that discernment in what we choose to accept, discuss, and share wider. In the same way, it's important for libertarians - although socialism is wrong in principle, the non-aggression principle trumps that, hence the general anti-war stance of true libertarians. It's very easy to get caught up in the general mood of a nation, but we need to be constantly evaluating that against our principles, and being more deeply aware of what is truly going on.
 
There... now that we have all the clarifications and explanations... :D

@ZecAustin I'm totally with you being part of the warrior class. I'm happy to stand my ground and dare you ( or anyone else) to take it. I'm also a sucker for defending the weak or defenseless.... totally with you. What we have to guard against is that composition being used against us by being drawn into fights that benefit anything other than familial/tribal protection and THE Kingdom.. This is why we must be wary of war (or any other kind) of propaganda. We must be about our Fathers business and not get entangled. ...

Not calling you out, just springboarding off of your comments.
 
[Edited to clarify that AP and I posted at almost the same time, and I was responding to Samuel.]

I agree that war propaganda and mob psychology are serious socio-political problems. (For some interesting reading, check out Sam Keen's Faces of the Enemy.) I'd also agree to stipulate that social media has taken that problem and "turned it up to 11". And long before I was an active libertarian I was opposed to foreign intervention (and "foreign entanglements", generally) on Constitutional grounds. Aaaand "blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God" is a life verse for me (one of three). So it sounds to me like you and I are very much on the same page re war and peace, generally.

What's your opinion on the possibility of a civil war in America (v. peaceful separation or a totalitarian takeover without resistance or just muddling along SSDD)? Where we may diverge a bit is on priorities. I see Venezuela as a big yawn (a tragic one, for sure, but speaking of SSDD...). Just another episode of American interventionism, propagated by both major parties pretty much constantly at this point, and not solvable without major root cause changes to the system. In other words, interventionism is a symptom, and we need to cure the disease.

OTOH, I see civil war here as a real possibility in my lifetime (not inevitable, just a strong possibility), so my primary martial concern is here on the home front. It's not that I don't care about Venezuela, I just see that as a huge intractable institutional problem that I can't do much about in the time frame within which somebody would have to do something.

With the general observation that we should all be acutely aware of how we're being used by our keepers to promote subtle agendas, I am in complete agreement.
 
andrew said:
We don't need socialism in the United States.
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All those so concerned about socialism 'over there' and the threat of it 'coming here' might want to go read the 10 planks of the communist manifesto and then compare to our current political system.

andrew said:
What's your opinion on the possibility of a civil war in America (v. peaceful separation or a totalitarian takeover without resistance or just muddling along SSDD)
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Things are too chaotic right now to predict. But given that we are recipient to the largest movement of peoples in all of human history, bloodshed is likely.
 
Here at this house we see the current new target on "Godzilla's " radar as another likely sad statistic.
I think this has been a great thread with lots of great input from all!
@Phillip and @rockfox have ID'd the main perps who control "Godzilla" by buying his handlers. @Ancient Paths is right, that Godzilla, (or rather those manipulating the Godzilla military machine) has earned a huge whoopen....as well as those who are cheering for "Godzilla" and like watching him smash stuff up and kill people. @Slumberfreeze is correct that God can and does use evil men to accomplish His will. @andrew and @FollowingHim dug in and talked about though provoking matters of substance, and @zec is right, (socialism is evil and should be opposed) but maybe not on every point.
Civil war may not be needed to clean up our country. The Nations are aligning into the camps prophesied for the Gog and Magog war.....and the USA is the nation they will come against. This country is ripe for judgement, and too big for most to take on.
The actions of "Godzilla" are certainly part of the big plan, (bringing Russia, China and others against the USA) but it might put one on the side of "the great ho" to be happily cheering about "Godzilla's " next meal.
rockfox said:
War is a racket and only the bankers win.
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True words! A fight that conscience demands is however a different matter.
I hope like @JimandMary that we are ready for the rain.

But I think it is awesome that God has declared the end from the beginning! Ezekiel was written before Christ, and it is right on and going to happen! Wow!
THE great and dreadful day! Great for His people, and the common decent folk, dreadful for Godzilla fans, or the bookies and people that get rich from betting on rigged games!

I will be cheering when God sacrifices the "kings and captains" and feeds the fowl and beasts. No more ho riding on big dragon Godzilla will make the world an infinitely better place!
(I must be color blind. Godzilla looks red to me! )
 
Agree with everything you said @andrew.
andrew said:
What's your opinion on the possibility of a civil war in America (v. peaceful separation or a totalitarian takeover without resistance or just muddling along SSDD)?
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This is a matter where any one of you is far more informed to have an opinion than myself, I'm too far removed to clearly judge what the likelihood of anything is. I do see civil war as a very real possibility - but whether it will happen, or who would win, is something I am unqualified to comment on.

I do see the USA (by which I mean the political and military complex, not the people) as Babylon the Great, and believe it will be ultimately taken down by external forces. Every empire rises and falls, and one day the USA will follow suit, but its falling will usher in a major new age in the world. I expect it to be succeeded by a new global government unlike any ever seen before in the history of the world, likely being a technocracy that is driven by American and Chinese tech firms, possibly with Chinese government influence, that survive the fall of the political USA and strengthen to ultimately control all finance and everything else in the world. That's the big picture. Whether there is a civil war or not will just be a detail, and I don't know what the likelihood of it is. But if it occurs, I would see it as part of the USA's fall, and whether any good would come out of it is impossible to foresee. I doubt such a war would result in a strong, conservative USA once again, in my personal opinion that's a pipe dream, the rot is too deep. It could however serve to differentiate certain areas / states from the empire, so that the collapse of the empire does not result in the collapse of all states. That would allow some smaller nations to arise once again from the ashes of the empire. These could be beacons of hope in a dark time. I must admit that's the most positive outcome I can imagine from a civil war, war tends to cause more destruction than benefit. Remember though that I am a pessimist who, as I said, is far less qualified to form an opinion on this than any of you. But I'm answering the question anyway because I was asked.
 
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Joleneakamama said:
A fight that conscience demands is however a different matter.
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Of course. And in all likelihood we'll be seeing those fights on our soil within a generation.

ZecAustin said:
If there isn't a Civil War then we are lost.
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You are probably right. Now we could break up USSR style without war, but it is unlikely. We are more likely in for a Yugoslav scenerio given the nature of the peoples who have invaded us and the reasons why they were brought here. Either we fight or we will be subsumed.

FollowingHim said:
I do see the USA (by which I mean the political and military complex, not the people) as Babylon the Great, and believe it will be ultimately taken down by external forces. Every empire rises and falls, and one day the USA will follow suit, but its falling will usher in a major new age in the world
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This is true, although I don't know if we are THE babylon of prophecy. It would fit though being we are a financial/merchant power.

FollowingHim said:
likely being a technocracy that is driven by American and Chinese tech firms, possibly with Chinese government influence, that survive the fall of the political USA and strengthen to ultimately control all finance and everything else in the world
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That is what those in power would like to pivot things to be. But I haven't seen obvious indications that the Chinese are down for that (but I haven't followed them closely). Given the growing Chinese influence and the way in which the liberal democratic order has been discredited I'm not so sure they'll be able to successfully pivot that way. We may be in for a phase with more decentralized power.

FollowingHim said:
I doubt such a war would result in a strong, conservative USA once again, in my personal opinion that's a pipe dream, the rot is too deep
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If things go the partition route and we throw off the chains of the propogandistic state there is strong chance that several core sections of the country will rise from the ashes stronger than before. But don't expect us to be a global power.
 
Something to keep in mind here: we stand under judgement. The blood of 10's of millions of dead babies cries out for justice. We are one who is ruled by women and children and a big chunk of our culture and people is rotten.

So we shouldn't expect to escape trial and trouble.
 
FollowingHim said:
war tends to cause more destruction than benefit
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I would say, a righteous war, would have its benefits. However, wars that only seem to benefit the IMF, are not righteous. And we see a lot of that in recent decades.

But on a different note, wars no longer have to be destructive. One designer plague can wipe out millions and millions. And all the real estate stays intact.
 
Even mainstream sources, both liberal and conservative, are talking about the possibility of civil war. This is a self reinforcing thing. The more it's legitimized the more people consider it legitimate.

It's important to remember that there are men who signed The Declaration of Independence who were against it as late as the morning of July 4th, 1776. Opinion can change very fast with these things.
 
ZecAustin said:
Even mainstream sources, both liberal and conservative, are talking about the possibility of civil war. This is a self reinforcing thing. The more it's legitimized the more people consider it legitimate.

It's important to remember that there are men who signed The Declaration of Independence who were against it as late as the morning of July 4th, 1776. Opinion can change very fast with these things.
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We know the media is used, sometimes years in advance, to set the stage to get the people ready for “whatever” is being set up on the horizon. I hope that’s not the case in talking about civil war.
 
rockfox said:
All those so concerned about socialism 'over there' and the threat of it 'coming here' might want to go read the 10 planks of the communist manifesto and then compare to our current political system.
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It's not a question of whether it's "coming" here; I thought it was obvious it's already here. The problem is it's metastasizing.....
 
FollowingHim said:
Whether there is a civil war or not will just be a detail, and I don't know what the likelihood of it is. But if it occurs, I would see it as part of the USA's fall, and whether any good would come out of it is impossible to foresee. I doubt such a war would result in a strong, conservative USA once again, in my personal opinion that's a pipe dream, the rot is too deep. It could however serve to differentiate certain areas / states from the empire, so that the collapse of the empire does not result in the collapse of all states. That would allow some smaller nations to arise once again from the ashes of the empire. These could be beacons of hope in a dark time.
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All well said as usual.

America is on a historically predictable path of affluence, decay, and dissolution; the only real question is exactly how it's going to self-destruct. The big variables are technology: both the technology of the internet, with its unprecedented scope of instant communication, and the technology of modern destruction (so much more than just 'military'...), including biologicals and electronic. Kind of a race if you will between the technology of destruction and control and the technology of communication and collabloration.....

I currently see fragmentation as the most plausible outcome here in the States. I could see a new global regime, and there's no doubt that's the objective of some, but unless they can shut down the internet (that's another conversation), they may find global command and control more difficult than they had planned for (unless they just terminate several billions of us at once in a pre-emptive strike and then go from there...). But I don't think we can get to fragmentation without at least a regional/national brawl, if not a world war, so that's why I'm paying a lot of attention to (civil) wars and rumors of (civil) wars right now.
 
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