Any person who declares that some portion of Scripture is of more authority or value than other portions, and he or she decides which portions they are, then yes, that person has put him or herself in judgement over God Himself. God did not breath out (inspire) the writers of His Word, He breathed His word out therefore it must all be of the same authority or value; All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable... (2 Timothy 3:16).
Then you sentence any church council that ever removed books, talked about removing them, or ascribed red lettering or bold or italics to any portion of scripture. Are Jesus' words more important than Paul's? Even if they say the same thing, one has higher authority. Can we listen to both? Yes! They are saying the same things. But understanding the source of the authority is not me putting myself in judgement over God.
If a person was stranded, alone, without any knowledge or access to the outside world, which passage of scripture would show them more about who God is and how He wishes for them to act: Exodus 20 or Esther 2?
That passage doesn't speak to authority at all. And that passage is written by Paul. So claiming that Paul is claiming to write scripture on the same level as Torah? Do you really think Paul would agree? I think that you are charging Paul with something rather blasphemous here as well.
Here’s my problem with investing time in all of the resources you’ve provided; you still haven’t taken a stance. You haven’t articulated what it is you’re defending and what it is you’re opposing. You’ve just sort of rushed in and started flailing around with a big stick.
What you seem to refuse to realize is that the men who reported Jesus’ Words to us are the same men who wrote vast swaths of the New Testament. If they were not faithful scribes in Acts how were they faithful scribes in Luke?
Yes you are! The very things you write here show you have determined Moses wrote the inspired Word on a higher level of authority than Paul wrote the inspired Word.
What you think is of little concern but when you teach that there are varying levels of authority in Scripture you have made yourself a judge over God Himself. That is blasphemous and must be challenged.
I love how you phrase this as if this is the big nail in the coffin that you've hammered down multiple times and I "refuse to realize". Well, let's see what this big realization is:
Yes, believe it or not, I "realize" that.
They be faithful scribes in both, doesn't give them authority equal to God Himself.
Again, you're off in a different argument. They can be as inspired as you wish to believe them to be. Doesn't make a difference. They. Are not. God.
You're off on a tangent here. Hate to break it to you, but the historical proof of the gospels existence, and the acceptance by the apostles is as much evidence as is required to prove the legitimacy of the gospels as historical documents and to trust them to be real.
We very clearly do, as salvation is a major theme throughout all of God's Torah. Again though, I have no issue with the New Testament as historical documents OR blessed writings.
No, God determined that when He literally said so. Numbers 12:6-8 is a good example of that, I posted it earlier.
You're right, compared to God I an nothing, and Paul is nothing too, and Peter, James, John, You, Zec, actually everyone! It's almost like there's a higher authority...
Ol' reliable again I see. Don't answer any of my own questions. In fact, don't think! That could be dangerous. Gotta hold that protestant line.
Neither. Is. Torah.
WHAT!?!?!
Do you assign God-like authority to His Messenger Moses? You understand that every standard you apply to the New Testament has to be applied to the Old Testsment.
That passage says nothing about the Torah relative to any other scripture. It asserts the authority of Moses, which is not in dispute by anyone, but it has nothing to say about that authority relative to any other writer.
That latter portion of Deuteronomy 18 deals with the unique nature of Moses' ministry. I'd ask you to refer to it in whatever translation you'd prefer. I would type it out here, but I would like to save time while responding to this mini-coalition.
Jesus' words are the very words of God, and are perfectly in line with Torah and equal in authority.@StudentofHim,
I think you are seriously mistaken with your proposal that the Torah/Pentateuch is the foundation or standard by which all else is measured.
I think that foundation or standard is rather to be found in Yahweh Himself, specifically in the Word become flesh, God the Son.
The way Christ taught the Torah was shocking. He didn't seem to teach that the Torah was the foundation or the standard.
Instead, He showed up and claimed to be "The Standard". He comes on the scene and basically says "I AM THE I AM who gave the Torah to Moses".
He says that He didn't come to abolish the Law or the Prophets, but rather fulfill them. At the same time, He makes it clear that He Himself is going to define what fulfilling them means, thus showing Himself as the Standard rather than the Torah.
In the Sermon on the Mount, Christ said "You have heard it said...(quotes things from the Torah)... but I say to you...".
In Matthew 12:8 Christ stated that "the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath". He's not just claiming to properly understand or teach the fourth Commandment, He is claiming to own it, and place Himself above it.
That's shocking, He just claimed the authority of Yahweh.
The Jewish leaders knew that was what He was saying. They refused to believe Him, and crucified Him for it.
A few days later, Christ conquered death, and rose from the.grave. He was thereby vindicated by God the Father as "THE STANDARD".
That is a big part of what makes the New Testament "New".
The Torah.and the Prophets promised, and pointed to the coming Savior. The Gospels tell of His coming, give us His teaching, and display His saving Work. The Epistles help explain what it all means and what the implications are.
All of it was breathed out by the Spirit of God, and is authoritative.
I acknowledge Moses-like authority to Moses and to Jesus. Because that is what God assigned (latter portion of Deuteronomy 18).
Alright, you got me. It doesn't specifically say "Moses has more authority than Paul". But, it it does in fact say quite clearly, that the way things are revealed to Moses (and later on to Jesus) are different than the way God speaks to other people.
God Himself describes Jesus as "a prophet like you" to Moses. I stand by the comparison God made. But that comparison doesn't equal the two being equals. It simply points out that they were both special in their authority and closeness of communication with God.
What do you mean when you say God spoke to Jesus? This is a strange formulation.
You're right, it is a strange formulation. The technical aspects of the Trinity are strange in general (at least to me). Perhaps spoke was the wrong term in that instance... communicated?
So the suspicious minded would question whether or not after having minimized the New Testament you are now minimizing Christ’s admittedly complex oneness with the Father.
Yeah well at this point I think that's it is more just my poor wording than any major disagreement (in terms of the Triune God's oneness). Jesus while he functioned as a man certainly was in communion and spoke and prayed with and to... Himself, well, The Father. But certainly God is never portrayed as some type of schizophrenic diety.
I agree.