Someone who is not financially illiterate.
Which could be the wife, the problem is that any intelligent woman would not marry such a clown in the 1st place, so the wife is probably not much better in this scenario. Sigh.
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Why does the Husband Not Need Permission from his Wife?
- Thread starter OttoM
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Someone who is not financially illiterate.
Which could be the wife, the problem is that any intelligent woman would not marry such a clown in the 1st place, so the wife is probably not much better in this scenario. Sigh.
I understand your frustration. You would like men to be the best candidate for the leader of the home so that there is no conflict. I hope I am understanding your position. Feel free to let me know if I am not "getting it".
I also want him to be the best candidate for the position. In fact, I teach men that they have to prepare themselves for this role and that they should not be entertaining the idea of marriage until they have established themselves. In finances, the word of God and in their own understanding of the world around them. They need to be mature before they seek a wife. Males become men, biblically, at the age of 20. I do NOT believe that men are naturally ready at the age of 20 to be husbands. It would be a rare man at that age who has matured to the point that he should be considering a wife. I recommend waiting until he is closer to 30 without trying to put an exact number on it. Some men need more time, some less...
None of that though changes the natural order that God established. If an immature man takes a wife who is more competent than he, she is still called by God to be subservient to him. Most women seek a man that they perceive to be "more" than themselves in all areas of life that they consider important so this is rarely ever a concern.
What we have seen in society over the past 60 years or so is a blatant attempt to put women over men. This has been done in business through women empowerment programs that seek to promote women over men without regard to merit. This has been done in our homes through constant messaging in TV programs, movies and songs just to mention a few. This has been done in churches where the messages are given that a husband is to love his wife to the point of laying down his life for her as Christ did for the church and so anything less than laying down your life for her is your duty. Thus making her every whim your Godly duty to perform.
Feminism has been on full display for 60 years and it has not been pretty. The results are more babies killed than I can even wrap my head around. More marriages dissolved than are stable. Less family stability and less wealth accumulation than ever.
Our experiment with this has failed and it is time for Godly men to begin to lead again.
I would say that originally God did intend for man to to take the lead and one could argue that the physical attribute of the penis going into the vagina is testimony to that. However, as I mentioned before, God did not have the slightest issue with Deborah taking on a leadership role. Some pointed out that this was more an exception, perhaps, but in the end it was not significant to God. My impression is that it is more important to to men then to God. For many men it is an ego issue, which bothers me significantly.
As for portrayal of men in modern cinema, cry me a river, were you also complaining about how woman were portrayed in the past? In the original pilot episode for Star Trek, the first officer was female, which was criticized by CBS as being unrealistic. Something like Captain Janeway is a positiv role model for girls.
For me in a marriage, it would be important that both, husband and wife, do not lose their own identity, remain masters of their individual life, are able to pursue their interests. My parents manage that well.
I guess I could I could accept a husband as leader of the household id there is an precise correlation in philosophy, and management style. I prefer a house near mountains, or oceans, or forests. A husband would need to match. If 20 years into the marriage the husband becomes mad and decides he wants to go life in Manhattan, well, he is free to do what he wants, but I would not be following him. To be clear, that does not mean I would divorce him, it would just be a long distance relationship at that point. My own sanity is of paramount importance, and I do not think I can do a large city. I mean I enjoy visiting New York, but living there, nope.
As for portrayal of men in modern cinema, cry me a river, were you also complaining about how woman were portrayed in the past? In the original pilot episode for Star Trek, the first officer was female, which was criticized by CBS as being unrealistic. Something like Captain Janeway is a positiv role model for girls.
For me in a marriage, it would be important that both, husband and wife, do not lose their own identity, remain masters of their individual life, are able to pursue their interests. My parents manage that well.
I guess I could I could accept a husband as leader of the household id there is an precise correlation in philosophy, and management style. I prefer a house near mountains, or oceans, or forests. A husband would need to match. If 20 years into the marriage the husband becomes mad and decides he wants to go life in Manhattan, well, he is free to do what he wants, but I would not be following him. To be clear, that does not mean I would divorce him, it would just be a long distance relationship at that point. My own sanity is of paramount importance, and I do not think I can do a large city. I mean I enjoy visiting New York, but living there, nope.
Bingo, don’t marry a man that you will find an excuse to not respect.
It's a tradeoff. It depends on the man's career choice. If he lives out in the sticks, and he is in the oil business, financially you will be secure. If however, he is an investment banker, either he will have an incredibly long commute, which comes with hgher cost in gasoline and more wear and tear on his vehicle, along with costly repairs, or else he will have to live close to where the jobs are. As a SW/FW engineer, I am finding a lot of jobs that are either 100% remote or hibrid 2 or 3 days a week in the office. Firmware requires more hands on work than software though, and my specialization is firmware, but I am still seeing quite a few roles that are 100% remote. In fact I recently accepted one such role, only to have the start date pushed back a couple of months, which has left us in a bit of a lurch, but we have been holding on for dear life. Times like this are when you really have to trust God to provide.
When two parties are pleased to move in one direction, it is very difficult to see who is leading or that there is even a leader at all.
When those same two parties wish to move in opposing directions, that is when it is determined who is the leader. You have stated that you would not follow your husband if he did things that you disagree with. So, you really reject anyone being your leader.
It also appears that you have no problem with being the leader. You can do that. You can be the leader...
God does not force anyone to obey him. If you reject the roles that God created, you can have a family but not a biblical family....
Feminism is a rejection of the order God created with the Patriarchy...
When those same two parties wish to move in opposing directions, that is when it is determined who is the leader. You have stated that you would not follow your husband if he did things that you disagree with. So, you really reject anyone being your leader.
It also appears that you have no problem with being the leader. You can do that. You can be the leader...
God does not force anyone to obey him. If you reject the roles that God created, you can have a family but not a biblical family....
Feminism is a rejection of the order God created with the Patriarchy...
I doubt you really care, for you it is just about cementing your own position of power.
For many husbands a wife is just a cheap maid and cook. Philosophically on the same level as those evangelical Pastors who get their sheep to buy them a private jet, because that it what God wants. They just are not playing the game at the Alpha level.
For many husbands a wife is just a cheap maid and cook. Philosophically on the same level as those evangelical Pastors who get their sheep to buy them a private jet, because that it what God wants. They just are not playing the game at the Alpha level.
You doubt I really care... About what? You? I have been ever so gentle in my conversation with you because I do care about your outcome. I want you to see the biblical perspective... If I am not mistaken, that is the whole point of this forum. Biblicalfamilies.org
You doubt I really care... About what? My wife? I do. I profess that I do and I do. But, you might think I am a liar...
You doubt I really care... About what? Adherence to the Word of God?
Psa 119:10 With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments.
Psa 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
Psa 119:12 Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes.
You doubt I really care... About what? Something else? Do tell...
How am I supposed to interpret your arguments?
You are publicly arguing "I should be in charge, because God said so, see; you can read it here on page 365." I find it extreme poor form to argue in that way to cements one power position. How am I to interpret that other then as a hostile challenge?
If you do believe that, just let it be between God and myself, no need for a public debate about it.
The annoying part is, it already starts in school, where some boy believes he should be in charge of some project, make some decision, because it is God's choice for him to lead. The annoying thing is that I am then forced to respond, otherwise it makes me look weak, and it often forces me to employ a more aggressive tactic then I am comfortable with.
You are publicly arguing "I should be in charge, because God said so, see; you can read it here on page 365." I find it extreme poor form to argue in that way to cements one power position. How am I to interpret that other then as a hostile challenge?
If you do believe that, just let it be between God and myself, no need for a public debate about it.
The annoying part is, it already starts in school, where some boy believes he should be in charge of some project, make some decision, because it is God's choice for him to lead. The annoying thing is that I am then forced to respond, otherwise it makes me look weak, and it often forces me to employ a more aggressive tactic then I am comfortable with.
The annoying thing is that many people, yourself primarily in this discussion, will avoid accepting male leadership.
Any excuse will do, but your favorite is that the male isn’t a perfect person.
As I said earlier, marry someone that you can respect and drop the excuses.
Maia, I think that you might be misunderstanding my position in this debate. I am not arguing that, "I should be in charge, because God said so, see; you can read it here on page XYZ." What I am debating is what is the roles that God wants us to take. If it seems self serving, I can understand why. That does not make it self serving though.
For example, the Levite priest were supposed to be the ones that taught the instructions to all the other tribes of Israel. Theses are the instructions that Moses had received from God. But as the Levites taught the people these instructions, they would have to explain how all the other tribes should bring to them, the Levites, 10% of their harvest of cereals, wine, and animals. Then they would have to instruct them that if they vowed a vow to God that when they went to pay the vow, they would need to give it to the Levites as they would physically take ownership of the vow payment. And furthermore, if there were any controversies that needed resolved, they needed to bring them to the Levites for a resolution.
As the teachers of God's instructions, all of this would seem to be self serving on the face of it but, none of it was in fact taught with that purpose. The Levites taught this because that is how God arranged it, ordered it and required it.
Easy to say in faith. Easier to do with faith.
We have the choice to believe or not, but we don't ever have the authority to rewrite or change what YHWH has ordered.
Nope. That's missues of women. They are good also for other things.
Being silly and cute. Having happy face. Making life more enjoyable. Having joy and creating memories.
Don't forget. Being used for muchoooo pleasure. Including one which results in growing stomach.
We all play different roles in each other lives. It's practically evil to force person to do only one role.
Because you are trying to be masculine and fight directly.
Leave that to men. Feminine approach is indirect. As women you will get better results with men by being pleasant, cuddly and gentle. Such women are often gifted by men.
But, you can't resist playing dominance games. It only results in men playing same with you which results in massive conflict which you can't men.
Man who loses such fight with another man can still stay friend. And women you only get reputation for being Pain In Ass.
Would you spend this much time arguing if your given role was, say, to clean a pig stall. Would there be multiple threads here where said individuals argue that this is the role God wants of them. No, I thought not. You are viewing the Bible as a plum book.
People do not become leaders just because they read it in the bible that they are to lead, that will not change a personality. My experience with teachers is that those who proclaim that they must be respected, have lost the class, they are weak individuals. It is even worse if a teacher needs to have "God" aka the principle declaring that a teacher must be respected. Teachers who are real leaders emanate leadership from their very essence they just have the class under control by the scher nature of their personality. They are also generally the better teachers.
What would be the other one?
Well I do enjoy Taekwondo, sometimes a physical fight can be a thrill.
Indirect, can work in many situations - for men as well actually - which in work environments can work very well for example. In certain scenarios however being "cuddly" is dangerous, and one needs to be ready to kick someone.
I guess in environmental work being cuddly is an asset, Hence the WWF has a panda as it's mascot and not a snake.
I will admit I get a certain amount of pleasure out if it. I guess it is similar to a sporting competition like a marathon. 'Participating is half the fun" nah that is lie people tell themselves, everyone is in it to win.
As long as I can win it - which will not be all the time, granted - I do not mind.
I am unconcerned about people's assessment. Well, there are maybe 30 people on this planets who's opinion about me I value. There are certain people where I strive to get them to view me as a pain in the ass.
I believe that I am coming to understand your thoughts on this matter slightly better. It appears that you believe that I and perhaps others on this thread are arguing that we each individually are saying "I am the leader, now show me respect as the leader!". This could not be further from the truth. Personally my leadership is well established and is not threatened by this conversation or by anyone that I lead. Personally, those that I lead are very well pleased with my leadership which includes decisions made and the relationships we have at the same time. Personally, none of this is being argued against outside of here because those that I lead are thrilled that they have someone as competent as I to lead. Hence the resultant issues also become mine as well. No-one seems to relish the issues that come with leadership.
The successes are all shared together.I highly suspect that all the other men in this thread are making this case for male leadership for the same reasons that I am. It is the duty of the leaders to teach others their roles. I shared that with you in my previous post about the Levite priests hoping that you would make the connection to this truth.
As for cleaning out the pig pen.... That is exactly the kind of thing a man does naturally when it needs doing. It is the Nepo/DEI hires that all seem to think that they are above it and that want to claim to be the strong girl boss over someone else to get them to do it. Men do dirty jobs naturally. All the time. Without complaining. The fact that you use that as an example says a lot about you. Also, if it was an argument over us cleaning out the pig pen, YOU would not be in here arguing against it demanding that you get your turn at the pig poop.
Ultimately, men must lead as God intended. Part of that is teaching others. That is what we are doing.....
I assure you, you are winning.
While most of your positions make a lot of sense in the natural, what you aren’t factoring in is the spiritual side of reality.
I assume that you mean a plumb bob, and if so you are absolutely correct.
Harold Hill was a brilliant engineer, and he would refer to the Bible as the Manufacturer's Handbook. The standard joke is that men don’t want to be bothered with reading the instructions on anything new, we just want to dive in and start operating the new machine, whatever it is. “When all else fails, read the instructions.”
Either our Creator knows what He is talking about, and the Bible is truly our plumb bob, or the Creator is a myth and so is His Word. You can’t accept that He exists while denying His instructions. That would not be an intelligent decision.
So circling back to the spiritual side of the discussion, Yah tells us that His Kingdom has a design and also that it has an enemy. The enemy, of course, would have the Kingdom under his own control. To that end he will empower people to avoid Yah’s design.
The bottom line is that often women will rule via the power of the dark side when they think that they are being logical.
I’m not explaining this well at all because as I really don’t have time, but the bones are here.
Well said!
It was a looooong time ago ya'll were discussing this - so it must be about time for me to contribute. About 40 years ago my wife (yep, just one) had an affair. She claimed it was because she wanted to find out if she could enjoy it - she didn't, but it broke our marriage bond. But we had two kids so I did not divorce her, neither did I go out and get a real wife. In fact, it was only back then that I started to study the subject of Polygamy. By the time I was confident enough that poly was good, and right another 20 years had passed. By then I didn't want to "hurt" her by bringing someone else into the home. So I waited. Finally, she divorced me - Praise the Lord. Without divorcing her I was suddenly free (as the church people looked at it) - but I still have not brought in another wife. I have a concubine still (the other 3 have gone their own way with me not asking them to join me in marriage), but no wife. Whose fault is that? Mine of course. I have not been "brave" enough to do what I know everyone I know thinks is sin. Instead of doing what is right, I have let others' opinions, very unbiblical opinions govern my life. Now finally, an old man actively looking for a wife or two or more doesn't have a very good chance. But I'm still trying because I am finally determined to do what I should have done 40 years ago when she didn't care about me, but I cared too much about her and the kids to do anything. Don't feel sorry for me - I made my own mess by thinking of my kids and their need of their mother. And she was a good mother, and now a good grandmother. Just never a good, or even fair wife.
I personally tend to seek input from my wife, because I have a tendency to mess things up royally, and she is very good at being my eyes and ears to protect me and the family from danger. However, if I see that she is throwing a fit, I know I need to step in and stop it. When the fruits of the Spirit are being exhibited, everything runs smoothly.