Zec Austin, the only person I know who can get cut off before ever starting to drink.
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Why Not Polygamy? A Question to Progressive Churches
- Thread starter cnystrom
- Start date
Why? Do you have some?Would you do it for money too? Curious.
Ooooooooooh, nice.
I knew that you were a man of many talents, but I had no idea how eclectic they might be.
Okay, I see what you're saying from a Torah perspective, but how do you reconcile Romans 1:26,27?
Even if it isn't expressly forbidden in the Torah, could it be one of the things that is rejected under the general umbrella of "lewdness"?
Thanks
Warning this post is not for the squeamish
Romans 1:26,27 is not a command it’s a general observation of what is happening. Also you have to make quite an assumption that it’s talking about female with female intimacy... more likely anal sex...
Hmm. I will have to think on that. Does anyone else have further insight into this perspective?
This is a good point. I think it's simply a spirt lead intuition. Yes God or Christ did not speak against it in the word, but why would it be okay for a woman but not a man? I see it to be wrong because its against Gods creation and design, men and women to be together and designed for one another. Their puzzle pieces fit together, just like two male ends of a hose won't butt together, you need a female end, it's just logical.
@PeteR I do not really agree to the "seed planting" theory either, although I see the logic I don't think it has anything to do with why God deams it wrong. If it were about the seed why did God deny men to dress like a woman, this has nothing to do with "seed", it has to do with design, creation.
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“Spirit lead intuition” isn’t a valid argument. You could argue for or against pretty much anything with that line of reasoning. By the Law comes the knowledge of sin. God has decided what sin is, and didn’t beat around the bush in telling us what is against His design. Adding to God’s law is dangerous, we see the effects of it all around us in our society. You have no more right to make something that you disagree with a sin than any pastor does in making polygyny a sin.
May I answer this? Paul told us what they did, it was "against nature" and "vile affections". I would think he is using God's definition of those words, and not the opinions of men, ditto for "lewdness". Do we not learn from Torah what's wrong?
Do not the Catholics intuitively know that polygyny is wrong?
...and we should follow Their Good example, no?
This verse has several different possible meanings. It is also the only verse like it so cannot be cross-referenced with others easily to use scripture to interpret scripture and show clearly which of those alternate readings is correct. It is therefore not clear enough to form an entirely new commandment / law that does not appear either in Torah or the words of Christ. If your conscience tells you something is sin based on this verse, then obey your conscience and do not do that thing as it would be sin for you. But this one passage is insufficient to use to condemn another person whose conscience says differently.
I am not sure why your jumping on my case when I didn't call anything a sin about two women being together. I don't disagree with what your saying, nor am I adding anything to the law, I am simply pointing out the obvious facts in scripture.
Nothing in the law about porn or masterbation either, but some people feel quite convicted to not do those things.
So your saying Jesus was wrong when he said the Holy Spirit would lead us? Or maybe you forgot that verse?
My spirit convicts me when I entertain the idea of two women sexually together even if I'm in the room (been there done that). I think what your saying is very dangerous, don't be quick to greive the spirit. Read John 14:26,16:13-15, 1 John 2:27, Luke 1:35, 12:12, and even in the old testament men were instructed to be lead by the spirit 1 Samuel 10:6. The spirit definitely leads people in what to do or not do. Clearly this is exactly how a large portion of scripture was inspired and written, but your going to say "be careful" about the spirit leading?
It seems your going over the deep end here, but maybe I am over reading what your saying. Do you know the letters of Peter and Paul were "chosen" for the current Bible because the bishops saw that they were spitit lead and or inspired by the Holy Spirit. Those very same bishops said if anyone disgreeded with their choices were not true Christians.
Nothing I said in the prior post was unbiblical. You should be lead by the spirit, Paul said it as well "So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh."Galatians 5:16
So two women sexually intimate would be obvious to me because it's not something that God created to be made in the image of God. Nothing says its a sin directly, by why play in something not originally intended for?
Just saying I'm with @Pacman on this one. "Likewise" and "natural use" are two very important phrases in this passage. But again, this is all meat that isn't relative to most people.
I don't know, I am not Catholic why don't you ask them.
Yes, we should walk by faith not by sight. Lead by the spirit and to submit to it despite our fleshly desires. Some may have no issue with women sexual involvement together, the word doesnt call it sin, but I can't expect to be okay with it as my spirit and conscionce tell me otherwise
In my mind it just sounds very matter of fact, sorry if I sounded like I was attacking you.
You said you see it as “wrong” and “against God’s creation” both words and phrases that imply sin.
Conscience is another matter.
Odd, no?
Not at all. The Holy Spirit does lead us in understanding the scriptures but not in adding to them.
This is a matter of conscience. You should not violate your conscience in this matter, but by the same token, you should not try to force anyone else to be subject to your conscience. There are a great number of people to whom having two wives violates their conscience, but that doesn’t make it wrong or against God’s creation. If it’s against your conscience don’t partake of it, but without a clear biblical commandment you cannot condemn others for doing so. Also bear in mind that people’s consciences can be bound by things other than the Holy Spirit. For instance, if your parents told you, as a child, that polygamy was wrong and then you discovered that it isn’t through study of God’s word, there is an adjustment period where your brain is still telling you there is something wrong with it, when in fact there isn’t. We should not violate our conscience but should bring our conscience in line with the word of God.
Yes I’m familiar with these claims.
Who were the bishops and where and when did they say that?
Same thing could be said of polygyny.
Paul goes on to explain what walking in the spirit is and lists the fruits of the Spirit. He isn’t saying that we will receive new doctrine by the Holy Spirit. Walking in the Spirit means having the fruit of the Spirit so that we do not sin (violate God’s perfect Law).
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I think what @Asforme&myhouse is saying, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that to declare that it is a sin for all goes beyond what scripture says. And as he and @FollowingHim point out is if it goes against your conscience then it is something that you should definitely avoid, and not participate in.
I know someone that has a troubled conscience over something that is not prohibited by God and I have always told them that they should not do it then, but to know that others may, and neither are sinning if they do or don't do it. Sorry for being vague with my example but it's a private matter.
I know someone that has a troubled conscience over something that is not prohibited by God and I have always told them that they should not do it then, but to know that others may, and neither are sinning if they do or don't do it. Sorry for being vague with my example but it's a private matter.
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Yep it is.
AMEN and AMEN!!!!!
And again I say AMEN!!!
Goodness me you have to much time on your hands to tear down and add/twist to what I've said, kinda sounds like your doing the very thing your speaking against. You seem to be overreading and twisting my words. In brief, no, I never "forced" anyone to believe or accept anything. Do you have some heavy guilt in this matter to be so defensive about it? That you ague something so minor.
In that regard, lots of things are wrong that are not sins, sir. I am sure you wouldn't be happy about your wife going and having intimate relations with another woman without your knowledge, because she wants her more than you. That would be wrong, biblically a sin? Probably not.
No different than its wrong to shoot paintballs at my neighbors house because it's fun, wrong, yes, not a sin. Don't twist my words or imply I am saying something wrong when I am not.
If you want to know what the history is about the modern day bible I highly recommended you read a book on it, called The Formation of the New Testament. The answer your looking for is addressed in this history book.
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